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Big News From Mars? Rover Scientists Mum For Now
- petercooper 14y agoGrotzinger says they recently put a soil sample in SAM, and the analysis shows something earthshaking. "This data is gonna be one for the history books. It's looking really good," he says. Pretty exciting language from a lead investigator at NASA. Cross all those fingers..
- indiecore 14y agoIt's either a lot of water or some sign of life or both. crosses fingers
- InclinedPlane 14y agoWe already know that Mars is lousy with water. For most of the surface all you have to do is dig down maybe a meter or so and you'll find permafrost everywhere. I suspect it's some sort of sign of complex organics, which would be a strong sign of past life.
- diminish 14y agoMaybe the Higgs Boson? (Ok; jokes belong to Reddit.) Big news for scientists may end up being unnoticeable small developments to the general public. Earthshaking may be key here, like an organic compound unexpected there.
- freehunter 14y agoThe question here is, is "earthshaking" something NPR is describing it as, or is it actually how the NASA scientist is describing it? The quote says it's something for the history books, the "earthshaking" remark is made outside of the quote.
- nitrogen 14y agoJust fantasizing here about potential fodder for the next decade of science fiction, but what would be even cooler than finding complex organics would be finding complex artificial materials (plastics, refined metals, glass, etc.).
- jmcqk6 14y agoThe thing about finding complex artificial materials is the the likely explanation would be "it came come the rover." While finding complex materials would be earth shattering, the threshold of accepting a martian source for a reading like is much higher than it would be for accepting the same for organic findings.
- debacle 14y agoCould also be a lot of some other important element or molecule. Or could be a scientific whiff. Looks like they're keeping their mouths shut until they can scientifically confirm the data.
- sunwooz 14y agowhat would they detect in the raw data if they scooped up a colony of extremophiles?
- debacle 14y agoExcrement or remains, likely.
- petercooper 14y agoI'm still holding out for tiny 1 millimeter tall people who run on photosynthesis.
- petercooper 14y agoI got 9 points for this. What is happening to this site! ;-)
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- tharris0101 14y agoWe're announcing that we can't announce what we've found. Seriously, though, I hope the results of whatever are confirmed. Not just for science but for justification for more funding to flow into space exploration.
- CoffeeDregs 14y ago<RANT> I find this very frustrating. As someone steeped in engineering and the sciences, I am used to working with unusual, unexpected and/or exciting results and I am used to those results being confirmed, revised, denied, etc. My frustration is not with the scientists; I'm sure I'd do the same thing given a possibly groundbreaking discovery and an inability to discuss much about it. My frustration is with us, the public, and with the fact that we can't be trusted as part of the broader team in this exploration. And I guess I'm frustrated with the media for feeding us with hyped-up-everything, since, even though we seem to demand it, it keeps us from being able to be involved in these conversations/discoveries. </RANT> edit: added tags...
- crayola 14y agoI agree with your conclusion. As an example of early disclosure of unconfirmed results, I am fairly confident many members of the public still think we have evidence that neutrinos travel faster than light..
- CoffeeDregs 14y agoAgreed. Interestingly, the blowback from early disclosure of unconfirmed [and bad] results can overwhelm subsequent disclosure of confirmed results. See: cold fusion. Cold fusion exists in a variety of forms, but, even in the face of continuing positive results, most in the public think that cold fusion is busted. Note: I'm not claiming that cold fusion is a viable energy production technology, just that it certainly exists and that interesting results have been published about it over the last 20 years.
- davidcuddeback 14y agoCitations? (to a credible source)
- wharryman 14y agoI think Discover had an article about the status of it gaining more mainstream acceptability - here it is: http://discovermagazine.com/2012/nov/27-big-idea-bring-back-the-cold-fusion-dream http://discovermagazine.com/2012/nov/27-big-idea-bring-back-... A more skeptical article from Forbes in Jan: http://onforb.es/ysGcVF http://onforb.es/ysGcVF
- alx 14y agoCurrent thread on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/curiosityrover/comments/13i2z4/it_is_possible_that_curiosity_found_something/ http://www.reddit.com/r/curiosityrover/comments/13i2z4/it_is...
- botolo 14y agoI am very very curious to see what they will announce. Maybe they found the birth certificate of Obama or the tax returns of Romney...Mars seems to be the perfect place to hide such things ;-)
- tomrod 14y agoHow exciting! Can't wait to find out what it is. On a side note, what are y'all's thoughts on the finding that radiation levels are livable? I'd love to live on Mars.
- freehunter 14y agoFrom what I understood, the radiation levels were survivable, not necessarily livable. I think I remember them saying a 6 month exposure would be pushing career limits for an astronaut, which is a two-fold improvement over unprotected space. Still bodes well for the chances of having a sealed base on Mars that allows people to travel outside occasionally.
- mkr-hn 14y agoThis could make more frequent trips outside possible: http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/stp/niac/2012_phaseII_fellows_westover.html http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/stp/niac/2012_phaseII_fellow... And you could do it with a smaller system on a Mars buggy.
- 46Bit 14y agoNPR are probably just being sensationalist. Give a reporter a line like that about anything from earthquakes to organics in the soil and you'll find the reporter files about Martians. I'll wait for an actual announcement before getting excited...
- MartinCron 14y agoNPR are probably just being sensationalist NPR is one of the least sensationalist news outlets out there. It's not like they're in a mad dash for ratings during sweeps week or something.
- jlarocco 14y ago"Least sensationalist" can still be sensationalist. And they do need to keep the donations rolling in... That said, I have no opinion on whether they're sensationalizing this story or not.
- MartinCron 14y agoAbsolutely, but they do tread a fine line. Many public radio fans (of which I am one) would be turned-off by the sort of rampant sensationalism and would stop listening and/or donating. Humorous Example of the non-sensational image NPR has managed to cultivate: http://www.npr.org/2012/10/01/162075221/jack-white-disappointed-in-fans-energy-level http://www.npr.org/2012/10/01/162075221/jack-white-disappoin...
- arrrg 14y agoCan I just for a moment question their PR strategy here? Them saying they have found something big leads to speculation, speculation that might paint the image of an discovery much bigger than what was actually discovered. Scientists are understandably enthusiastic about this, but they also have to keep in mind that when they just use words to describe the importance of the discovery without naming the discovery itself, it’s easy for them to get it very, very wrong. Something for the history books for them might well be something most people really couldn’t care less about. I think the adult thing of saying that it is possible you discovered x but you still need confirmation may well work, if you know how to frame it correctly. But whatever you do, don’t say anything about history books, not before you are really sure. Alternatively you shut up and say nothing to the public until you are sure. This whole “We have discovered something huge but we can’t tell you what until we are really sure!” seems very misguided to me. I think this is just a case of bad PR, not bad science reporting or anything like that.
- sv123 14y agoI heard this on the way in this morning, pretty much the only conclusion I have now is that they found life.
- rwitoff 14y agoNot with SAM. The best its 2 spectrometers and chromatographer will do is tell you chemical makeup.
- chucknelson 14y agoIt's probably traces of certain elements that mean something about the possibility for past life on Mars (but not proof of life)...which won't be too exciting for the general public.
- stephengillie 14y agoWhich has the best resolution of all the Rover's tools? Obviously we didn't send a tunneling electron microscope to Mars, so what scale of objects can we detect? Bacteria-sized objects?
- mladenkovacevic 14y agoWhatever it is I hope it's significant enough to initiate a human mission to Mars
- yumraj 14y agoThere is "scientist" exciting, and there is "general public" exciting. "General public" exciting is sign of life. "Scientist" exciting can be a bunch of other things. I'm hoping for "general public" exciting, but am afraid I'll be disappointed. fingers crossed
- kfcm 14y agoSince Congress is working on deals to avoid the January 1st "fiscal cliff", are the Rover guys just trying to prevent any cuts to their budget?
- andys627 14y agowhat do sam instructments do?
- lucasdailey 14y agoAs long as they didn't find oil.
- lucasdailey 14y agoAs long as they didn't find oil.
- vietor 14y agoThe audio version gives a bit more context. It sounded like the reporter was there already doing another story, and the NASA folks were very distracted by this but wouldn't yet say more than what's quoted in the story. Could be that it wasn't much of a calculated PR stunt by either side, but rather just human nature at work. If you're the NASA people, and you're getting exciting data, you're going to be excited about it. If you're a reporter, and everyone's excited, you're going to write about it even if you have no good details.
- apo 14y agoOrganic Chemist here engaging in some speculation. My best guess: Curiosity's SAM module has discovered significant levels of small organic molecules in the Martian soil. Not just any organic molecules, but either byproducts of life - or more exciting, the actual building blocks of life. This would be strong evidence for present or past life, but would be far from an observation of life itself. Some commenters have made the point that 'something for the history books' (the quote from the missions's PI) means different things for scientists and the public. I'm pretty sure the discovery falls into the category of exciting for scientists, not exciting for the general public. The data in question are coming from SAM, Curiosity's sample analysis tool. It's equipped with six gas chromatography (GC) columns. The output of these columns can be fed into either a mass detector (QMS) or spectrometer (TLS). IMO, none of these tools can detect life itself: http://ssed.gsfc.nasa.gov/sam/samiam.html http://ssed.gsfc.nasa.gov/sam/samiam.html SAM's purpose is specifically to find evidence for organic molecules - molecules based on carbon. The announcement will have something to do with discovery of organic molecules of some kind: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/news/msl20110118.html http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/news/msl20110118.html So direct observation of microbes or any other life form will not be the announcement. I'm pretty sure that's the only discovery that would be 'earthshaking' for the public. What would be earthshaking for me as an organic chemist? One possibility would be that SAM has discovered known byproducts of life, such as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), as was found in the Martian Meteorite studied by the Zare group: http://www.news.cornell.edu/chronicle/97/4.3.97/Mars_rock.html http://www.news.cornell.edu/chronicle/97/4.3.97/Mars_rock.ht... PAHs can be made through a variety of inanimate processes, so I'd view this discovery as more ho-hum. Still, it should be remembered that Viking failed to detect the presence of any organic molecules at all. Finding any organic molecules would be a big change in how we view Mars - but not in my view 'one for the history books'. However, if familiar building blocks of life such as amino acids or carbohydrates were detected, that would indeed fall into the earthshaking category. Life on Earth uses a selection of about 20 different amino acids. I would consider observation of a similar assortment of amino acids as strong evidence pointing to past or present life on Mars. Observation of five- and six-carbon carbohydrates, which are generally much more difficult to synthesize than amino acids, would be even stronger evidence for life. It's hard to overestimate how important that discovery would be. Observation of peptides - amino acids strung together as is done by all known life would probably be the most mind-blowing thing I could imagine SAM discovering. Depending on what specifically was found, it could remove any doubt - Mars has or had life. Very long peptide chains can be synthesized without life, but it's not easy. The exact composition of amino acids in the peptide chain would be critical for the interpretation and would be more time consuming than just, for example, observing a PAH. The fact that amino acids, peptides, or carbohydrates themselves were detectable today, given that they do degrade over time, could point in the direction of life having been present recently.
- pothibo 14y agoA few things that would get me excited: A geological proof that earth and Mars was the same body x million years ago. High concentration of oxygen or water in the soil. Fertile soil? I guess anything that would make human's visit to Mars less hostile would be a big story.
- drizzo4shizzo 14y agoFound: one discarded fixed-gear warp drive. Damn. Hipster. Jedis.
- capkutay 14y agoI'm so tired of reading ambiguous news about mars and space in general. Not once have I been able to read a headline from a space-exploration article and say "Wow!". I always find myself scanning through the article, trying to see what progress they've made and why it's significant.
- njharman 14y agoProbably worried the Italians will throw them in jail if not 100% accurate.
- jsmcgd 14y agoWikipedia has two videos explaining what SAM is for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_Analysis_at_Mars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_Analysis_at_Mars It seems that it is related to the question of is/was there life on Mars. It can detect organic products that are most likely produced by life, and if it has, it means we will be able to follow these products to something more conclusive.
- jdavid 14y agoTo SUM it up I hope we found evidence of one of the following. - Evidence of Oceans on Mars - Nitrogen in the soil, needed for plants to grow on mars - Amino Acids - Fossils It could be something that is a play on words, 'Earth Shattering' could mean volcanic activity I also wonder if they are finding rare minerals or metals. It could also have to do with Isotope ratios, as much of our history currently depends on Carbon Dating and other Radioactive Isotope decay rates. Different Atmospheric conditions could have different isotope ratios, this would be a pretty big shake up and it does not necessarily require the rover to find a specific chemical or a complex thing like DNA or organism remnants. My mind would be blown, if NASA found one of the following. - living plants - living microbes - manufactured materials not of human/ earth origin. - tons of precious metals.
- jdavid 14y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity_rover#Goals_and_objectives http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity_rover#Goals_and_objec... Curiosity has 8 core objectives, it's probably related to one or two of theses: Biological (1) Determine the nature and inventory of organic carbon compounds (2) Investigate the chemical building blocks of life (carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus, and sulfur) (3) Identify features that may represent the effects of biological processes (biosignatures) Geological and geochemical (4) Investigate the chemical, isotopic, and mineralogical composition of the Martian surface and near-surface geological materials (5) Interpret the processes that have formed and modified rocks and soils Planetary process (6) Assess long-timescale (i.e., 4-billion-year) Martian atmospheric evolution processes (7) Determine present state, distribution, and cycling of water and carbon dioxide Surface radiation (8) Characterize the broad spectrum of surface radiation, including galactic radiation, cosmic radiation, solar proton events and secondary neutrons We have heard some reports on (8), but other objectives seem like they might take a while. Plus the rover is not in the richest part of the ... theoretical river delta so I would suspect that NASA would hold their tongue on confirming (2) and or (3) until they are deeper into the mission, but (4) still seems likely, unless (2) and (3) are plentiful at this point.
- pdx 14y agoDuring the Viking program in the 70's, Levin's Labeled Release experiments seemed to show life in the martian soil. Two other experiments, also on Viking, failed to collaborate this finding, although there were issues with both of them which made their negative findings less meaningful. Ever since Viking, there have been no biological experiments sent to Mars. The issue has been tabled for 30 years. I'm hoping Dr. Levin finally gets his confirmation. If that's the case, it would explain why they're double and triple checking things. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_program#Biological_experiments http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_program#Biological_exper...
- jameshart 14y agoHeard this report on NPR this morning, and the impression I got was of a reporter managing to successfully salvage an interesting piece about the nature of scientific caution, the pressures on scientists to take care in announcing their results and even the restrictions placed on them by journals, from a visit to JPL where he learned about nothing specific, but did happen to be in the office with a scientist who got quite excited about an email he was reading, but then wasn't prepared to divulge any more details. I wouldn't read too much into it.