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Because Apple always did this, everybody knew this and people buy Apple exactly because of this. Google now pulls the rug on Android which is a whole different

Because Apple always did this, everybody knew this and people buy Apple exactly because of this. Google now pulls the rug on Android which is a whole different story because it used to be open. The whole idea of Android was to be open.

comandillos 5mo ago
The biggest mistake is that people trusted a company that, in reality, isn't that different from Apple. Just because everyone claimed Android as the true open source alternative to iOS, when only AOSP was that.
- sevenzero 5mo ago
  Yea agree. I reeeeally dont get why Google or Apple have good reputation at all.
  - comandillos 5mo ago
    They built products people like, and specially Apple has good reputation for building reliable, long-lasting and easy to use stuff for most people, leading to a heavy user adoption. But heavy user adoption without the proper regulation and company ethics leads to, well, monopolistic practices.
  - pbhjpbhj 5mo ago
    Google (before the sell-off) promoted a morality in 'don't be evil' that was a stark contrast to other tech firms. The adverts they carried were minimal. Their "free" stuff was top of the line, better than people were getting from paid services. Apple (under Jobs) sold themselves as counter-culture, they used popstars (unironically), and design, to sell the idea that if you were your own person, or followed fashion, then you bought Apple. I think the goodwill from those days still provides the foundations of their cultural position now. Although they chip away at those foundations. OpenAI looked like it could follow Google's early model, until it didn't.
    - ThrowawayR2 5mo ago
      The writing was on the wall for "don't be evil" when Google started the process of acquiring the much reviled DoubleClick back in 2007, nearly 20 years ago at this point. That's longer than most people reading this have been in the tech industry; a generation has never seen Google be anything other than increasingly extractive and monopolistic.
  - austinthetaco 5mo ago
    i mean Apple kind of used that position for building a good reputation. their whole thing is/was how secure their devices were and how they had human verification on all apps that went through the app store with a clear intents file (a file the describes exactly WHY an app needs permission for bluetooth/etc), and a secure enclave that prevented even the FBI from getting in (while apple refused to give them a backdoor). Hackers and tinkerers will find a lot of these measures to be an annoyance and authoritative control, but a lot of people just want their phone to a product, not the user.
curt15 5mo ago
> Because Apple always did this, everybody knew this and people buy Apple exactly because of this. Is that really so? Does the average iPhone user actually factor the app store tax into their decision to purchase the device? Or do they just assume that is just how all software works because they have no exposure to software ecosystems outside the iPhone app store
- sevenzero 5mo ago
  They factor in a more "clean" appstore yes. Not the tax itself but they usually appreciate apple having more polished apps in general (given that the Google Playstore is full of trash).
  - Intermernet 5mo ago
    Google play store is only full of trash if you go hunting for trash. I'd like to see the actual stats of people affected by play store malware vs malware available on the play store. I'm not saying it's not a problem, but I am saying it's not a problem that has caused any problems with any Android user I've ever met.
    - sevenzero 5mo ago
      I am not talking about the malware, I am talking about the apps that are bloated with advertisements or try really hard to push a subscription upon you. Lots of "free" apps try to push you into a subscription once installed.
      - smallmancontrov 5mo ago
        By that measure, the Apple app store is full of trash too.
    - intended 5mo ago
      > but I am saying it's not a problem that has caused any problems with any Android user I've ever met. You are an HN user of some age. You might even be the family IT person. You may well be changing the experience of people in your orbit. In contrast, my grandfather’s android phone had somehow 3 different SMS apps, all of which must have tried to remove the default app. I doubt you think some chap living in rural India, has good data hygiene and habits.
jhanschoo 5mo ago
> Google now pulls the rug on Android which is a whole different story because it used to be open. The whole idea of Android was to be open. This is the narrative for us in developed nations, but the majority of users today are people who were in developing countries and got a mid-tier smartphone to chat with friends and do banking with the same values as Apple users.
anxoo 5mo ago
this is that xkcd "regular people can only name a few common feldspars" meme. over 90% of consumers have no knowledge at all of tech corps' philosophy on user freedom, they just buy cheap phones that have good cameras and run instagram and tiktok well.
- rambambram 5mo ago
  Thanks for the reminder, I needed that. I didn't know this xkcd, but I've bookmarked it.
socalgal2 5mo ago
People do not buy Apple because of this. They buy Apple for other reasons and this comes along with it. Apple could allow side-loaded apps and not a single person would switch

comandillos 5mo ago

The biggest mistake is that people trusted a company that, in reality, isn't that different from Apple. Just because everyone claimed Android as the true open source alternative to iOS, when only AOSP was that.

sevenzero 5mo ago
Yea agree. I reeeeally dont get why Google or Apple have good reputation at all.
- comandillos 5mo ago
  They built products people like, and specially Apple has good reputation for building reliable, long-lasting and easy to use stuff for most people, leading to a heavy user adoption. But heavy user adoption without the proper regulation and company ethics leads to, well, monopolistic practices.
- pbhjpbhj 5mo ago
  Google (before the sell-off) promoted a morality in 'don't be evil' that was a stark contrast to other tech firms. The adverts they carried were minimal. Their "free" stuff was top of the line, better than people were getting from paid services. Apple (under Jobs) sold themselves as counter-culture, they used popstars (unironically), and design, to sell the idea that if you were your own person, or followed fashion, then you bought Apple. I think the goodwill from those days still provides the foundations of their cultural position now. Although they chip away at those foundations. OpenAI looked like it could follow Google's early model, until it didn't.
  - ThrowawayR2 5mo ago
    The writing was on the wall for "don't be evil" when Google started the process of acquiring the much reviled DoubleClick back in 2007, nearly 20 years ago at this point. That's longer than most people reading this have been in the tech industry; a generation has never seen Google be anything other than increasingly extractive and monopolistic.
- austinthetaco 5mo ago
  i mean Apple kind of used that position for building a good reputation. their whole thing is/was how secure their devices were and how they had human verification on all apps that went through the app store with a clear intents file (a file the describes exactly WHY an app needs permission for bluetooth/etc), and a secure enclave that prevented even the FBI from getting in (while apple refused to give them a backdoor). Hackers and tinkerers will find a lot of these measures to be an annoyance and authoritative control, but a lot of people just want their phone to a product, not the user.

curt15 5mo ago

> Because Apple always did this, everybody knew this and people buy Apple exactly because of this. Is that really so? Does the average iPhone user actually factor the app store tax into their decision to purchase the device? Or do they just assume that is just how all software works because they have no exposure to software ecosystems outside the iPhone app store

sevenzero 5mo ago
They factor in a more "clean" appstore yes. Not the tax itself but they usually appreciate apple having more polished apps in general (given that the Google Playstore is full of trash).
- Intermernet 5mo ago
  Google play store is only full of trash if you go hunting for trash. I'd like to see the actual stats of people affected by play store malware vs malware available on the play store. I'm not saying it's not a problem, but I am saying it's not a problem that has caused any problems with any Android user I've ever met.
  - sevenzero 5mo ago
    I am not talking about the malware, I am talking about the apps that are bloated with advertisements or try really hard to push a subscription upon you. Lots of "free" apps try to push you into a subscription once installed.
    - smallmancontrov 5mo ago
      By that measure, the Apple app store is full of trash too.
  - intended 5mo ago
    > but I am saying it's not a problem that has caused any problems with any Android user I've ever met. You are an HN user of some age. You might even be the family IT person. You may well be changing the experience of people in your orbit. In contrast, my grandfather’s android phone had somehow 3 different SMS apps, all of which must have tried to remove the default app. I doubt you think some chap living in rural India, has good data hygiene and habits.

jhanschoo 5mo ago

> Google now pulls the rug on Android which is a whole different story because it used to be open. The whole idea of Android was to be open. This is the narrative for us in developed nations, but the majority of users today are people who were in developing countries and got a mid-tier smartphone to chat with friends and do banking with the same values as Apple users.

anxoo 5mo ago

this is that xkcd "regular people can only name a few common feldspars" meme. over 90% of consumers have no knowledge at all of tech corps' philosophy on user freedom, they just buy cheap phones that have good cameras and run instagram and tiktok well.

rambambram 5mo ago
Thanks for the reminder, I needed that. I didn't know this xkcd, but I've bookmarked it.

socalgal2 5mo ago

People do not buy Apple because of this. They buy Apple for other reasons and this comes along with it. Apple could allow side-loaded apps and not a single person would switch