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> Training must start from the basics though. Of course everybody's training in math starts with summing small integers, which calculators have been doing witho

by andai 6mo ago

> Training must start from the basics though. Of course everybody's training in math starts with summing small integers, which calculators have been doing without any mistake since a long time. Yeah, it's the same way with learning programming. LLMs can handle basic programming (and increasingly advanced programming) but I think it's necessary to write code by hand. As a beginner, of course, and arguably to maintain skill later too. The alternative would be like, just asking ChatGPT to do your math homework and then "verifying" it by looking at it and saying "yeah, that looks okay." What are you going to learn? We do stuff by hand for a reason.

coderenegade 6mo ago
You only get good at the things you actually do. Our ancestors had to maintain a minimum level of fitness in order to be able to eat -- a level that most people today never reach, because the modern world has removed that need. Thinking is a skill just like any other, so what happens when people no longer have to exercise that skill to survive? It's a scary thought.
- brookst 6mo ago
  Tools don’t eliminate work, they abstract and amplify work. Those who miss this point are doomed to become the folks who say “back in my day we walked to school in the snow, uphill both ways”. The map isn’t the territory; thinking about what to build is just as valid as thinking about how to build it. Architects aren’t carpenters, but that doesn’t mean there’s no value in architecture.
  - jplusequalt 6mo ago
    >The map isn’t the territory; thinking about what to build is just as valid as thinking about how to build it If this was the case, the demand for architects would be different than what see today.
    - brookst 6mo ago
      Not following. The demand for architects is gated by the cost of building. And the metaphor is that all if us who used to be carpenters can be architects, in the software sense. Maybe some people don’t want to be, but it is still a very thought-intensive profession.
      - jplusequalt 6mo ago
        The question is whether vibe coding requires a lot of thought, and I don't believe it does. The industry in in full blown idiocracy at the moment, and if you think you're a real engineer despite not understanding what you're building, you're a joke.

by andai 6mo ago

coderenegade 6mo ago

You only get good at the things you actually do. Our ancestors had to maintain a minimum level of fitness in order to be able to eat -- a level that most people today never reach, because the modern world has removed that need. Thinking is a skill just like any other, so what happens when people no longer have to exercise that skill to survive? It's a scary thought.

brookst 6mo ago
Tools don’t eliminate work, they abstract and amplify work. Those who miss this point are doomed to become the folks who say “back in my day we walked to school in the snow, uphill both ways”. The map isn’t the territory; thinking about what to build is just as valid as thinking about how to build it. Architects aren’t carpenters, but that doesn’t mean there’s no value in architecture.
- jplusequalt 6mo ago
  >The map isn’t the territory; thinking about what to build is just as valid as thinking about how to build it If this was the case, the demand for architects would be different than what see today.
  - brookst 6mo ago
    Not following. The demand for architects is gated by the cost of building. And the metaphor is that all if us who used to be carpenters can be architects, in the software sense. Maybe some people don’t want to be, but it is still a very thought-intensive profession.
    - jplusequalt 6mo ago
      The question is whether vibe coding requires a lot of thought, and I don't believe it does. The industry in in full blown idiocracy at the moment, and if you think you're a real engineer despite not understanding what you're building, you're a joke.