3 ms·

AI use is far more prevalent now than then sadly. This kind of scheme is inevitable since compute is not free.

add-sub-mul-div 6mo ago
Water use and mass displacement of labor get all the attention but there are so many other more subtle reasons like this that AI is going to be bad for society.
Flimm 6mo ago
I disagree that this kind of scheme is inevitable. We can "evit" it through thoughtful discussion, foresight, alternative mitigations, and even regulation. Certainly, Google can choose to avoid it. On the other hand, the AI bubble will inevitably burst, since compute is not free. I look forward to post-bubble AI.
- layer8 6mo ago
  “Evit” is “avoid” in English, they have the same root.
- sofixa 6mo ago
  > We can "evit" it through thoughtful discussion, foresight, alternative mitigations, and even regulation Such as? I don't see how regulation would apply here without concrete technical solutions that enforce it. So what alternative mitigations do you have in mind?
  - JoshTriplett 6mo ago
    Among many other things: Regulate the use of AI to imitate or impersonate human activity. Regulate AI crawling/scraping. Ban scraping entirely, and all models based on it. Regulate maximum model size. These wouldn't eliminate the problem, but they'd change it from "many people do this" to "this is always a malicious attack, react accordingly".
    - warkdarrior 6mo ago
      None of these proposals are enforceable in any meaningful way.
      - JoshTriplett 6mo ago
        Sure they are. They affect the actions of many companies that today think what they're doing is okay (or at least not illegal). Don't underestimate the value of substantially reducing a harm, even if it isn't eliminated entirely. And don't underestimate the value of making it easier to address the remainder by ensuring it's 100% illegitimate. Regulate it today, and tomorrow, corporate legal departments will be very carefully training their employees to understand that it's illegal and they should never do it. Currently, some countries have laws saying that you're not allowed to pay bribes, including foreign bribes. Consider how widespread that practice was when it was outlawed. Imagine if, instead of regulating it, those countries had said "oh, that's not enforceable and too many people are already doing it and it would affect existing business practices...". Instead, today, corporate legal departments will ensure that employees are trained to know they can never do that and they should report any attempts to solicit bribes.
    - sofixa 6mo ago
      None of those would work without enforcement. Scams are banned, but that doesn't stop Chinese mafia from operating prison camps that run scams scamming people all around the world.
    - b65e8bee43c2ed0 6mo ago
      >Regulate maximum model size. is it still 2023 in your reality? as for the rest of it: my brother in Christ, may I remind you that America is not the only country in the world, that it does not own the Internet, and that its laws do not apply anywhere else? passing heckin' wholesome laws in one country will make no difference whatsoever when people and companies from 194 other countries can access the Internet and do things you don't like, just like you (for example) can be a LGBT on the Internet despite it being very illegal in Chechnya.
      - 6mo ago
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]

Water use and mass displacement of labor get all the attention but there are so many other more subtle reasons like this that AI is going to be bad for society.

Flimm 6mo ago

I disagree that this kind of scheme is inevitable. We can "evit" it through thoughtful discussion, foresight, alternative mitigations, and even regulation. Certainly, Google can choose to avoid it. On the other hand, the AI bubble will inevitably burst, since compute is not free. I look forward to post-bubble AI.

layer8 6mo ago
“Evit” is “avoid” in English, they have the same root.
sofixa 6mo ago
> We can "evit" it through thoughtful discussion, foresight, alternative mitigations, and even regulation Such as? I don't see how regulation would apply here without concrete technical solutions that enforce it. So what alternative mitigations do you have in mind?
- JoshTriplett 6mo ago
  Among many other things: Regulate the use of AI to imitate or impersonate human activity. Regulate AI crawling/scraping. Ban scraping entirely, and all models based on it. Regulate maximum model size. These wouldn't eliminate the problem, but they'd change it from "many people do this" to "this is always a malicious attack, react accordingly".
  - warkdarrior 6mo ago
    None of these proposals are enforceable in any meaningful way.
    - JoshTriplett 6mo ago
      Sure they are. They affect the actions of many companies that today think what they're doing is okay (or at least not illegal). Don't underestimate the value of substantially reducing a harm, even if it isn't eliminated entirely. And don't underestimate the value of making it easier to address the remainder by ensuring it's 100% illegitimate. Regulate it today, and tomorrow, corporate legal departments will be very carefully training their employees to understand that it's illegal and they should never do it. Currently, some countries have laws saying that you're not allowed to pay bribes, including foreign bribes. Consider how widespread that practice was when it was outlawed. Imagine if, instead of regulating it, those countries had said "oh, that's not enforceable and too many people are already doing it and it would affect existing business practices...". Instead, today, corporate legal departments will ensure that employees are trained to know they can never do that and they should report any attempts to solicit bribes.
  - sofixa 6mo ago
    None of those would work without enforcement. Scams are banned, but that doesn't stop Chinese mafia from operating prison camps that run scams scamming people all around the world.
  - b65e8bee43c2ed0 6mo ago
    >Regulate maximum model size. is it still 2023 in your reality? as for the rest of it: my brother in Christ, may I remind you that America is not the only country in the world, that it does not own the Internet, and that its laws do not apply anywhere else? passing heckin' wholesome laws in one country will make no difference whatsoever when people and companies from 194 other countries can access the Internet and do things you don't like, just like you (for example) can be a LGBT on the Internet despite it being very illegal in Chechnya.
    - 6mo ago
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]