4 ms·

4chan.org creator sends a cease & desist letter to moot.it

13 points by tipiirai 14y ago

Creator of the image board 4chan, Christopher Poole aka "m00t", sends a cease & desist letter to Moot Inc., a company offering free discussion forums & commenting for websites, claiming ownership for his pseudonym. Definitions of the word "moot" from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moot: 1. open to discussion or debate; debatable; doubtful: a moot point. 4. to present or introduce (any point, subject, project, etc.) for discussion 8. an argument or discussion, especially of a hypothetical legal case. 9. Obsolete. a debate, argument, or discussion. Moot's website: http://moot.it

tamoorshafi 14y ago
this is funny, Christopher Poole is wasting his time.... and wasting the time of the guys at moot Inc
GameOfTrolls 14y ago
m00tler did nothing wrong.
lutusp 14y ago
This is absurd -- "moot" is a common word, not a trademark or copyrightable property. http://fairuse.stanford.edu/commentary_and_analysis/2003_09_stim.html http://fairuse.stanford.edu/commentary_and_analysis/2003_09_... A quote: "Copyright laws disfavor protection for short phrases. Such claims are viewed with suspicion by the Copyright Office, whose circulars state that, '... slogans, and other short phrases or expressions cannot be copyrighted.'"
- courtneycouch0 14y ago
  Seriously. kind of baffling that he even decided to try this!
  - tl2201 14y ago
    I sent you an email on this matter...please read
- tipiirai 14y ago
  Indeed. I guess he simply trusted on his big name on this. Tried to scare.
- bobsmith4219 14y ago
  Paris Hilton disagrees http://gawker.com/5648787/paris-hilton-owns-the-phrase-thats-hot-and-other-revelations-that-could-ruin-the-weather-channel http://gawker.com/5648787/paris-hilton-owns-the-phrase-thats... No matter how absurd, anything is possible. Welcome to 2012
  - tipiirai 14y ago
    Wow. That's hot! Welcome to USA.
    - jannelehtinen 14y ago
      Or maybe just Paris :P
  - lutusp 14y ago
    > Paris Hilton disagrees That's not a good example. Consider "Sun Microsystems". Can "Sun" be protected? No. Can "Microsystems" be protected? No again. Can both together be protected? Yes, of course.
    - dangrossman 14y ago
      > Can "Sun" be protected? Yes. Why do you think it can't? Recall that Apple has successfully gained and defended its trademark on the word "apple", easily as common a word as "sun", in the relevant industries it operates. "Time" is trademarked by TIME Magazine, and "caterpillar" by Caterpilllar Inc., the construction equipment company. Feel free to check yourself. Federally registered trademarks are publicly searchable on the USPTO website. You'll find not only the registration for the word APPLE, but if you do a design mark search, you'll find quite a few drawings of the sun are registered trademarks as well.
      - lutusp 14y ago
        >> Can "Sun" be protected? > Yes. Why do you think it can't? Because it cannot be protected, not that an agency won't issue a document to that effect. A company that expects to use a common word as a trademark can expect to have a public-relations nightmare on their their hands as they try to keep people from using the "protected" word for any other purpose. Examples abound -- even words that aren't everyday words lose protection over time. How successful has Xerox been in getting people to say "dry electrostatic copy"? How successful has Johnson & Johnson been in getting people to say "adhesive compress" instead of "Band-Aid? This isn't about law, it's about reality. Reality trumps law. The present controversy over software patents shows the degree to which people in the legal profession think they can prevail over reality. They can't -- not for long, anyway.
- dangrossman 14y ago
  Trademark, not copyright, is the applicable law here. Copyright protects creative works like books or paintings or program code. Trademark protects names and marks used to identify the source of things. Brands are commonly one word or even one symbol and have trademark protection. If you can't identify the applicable law for a situation, you're probably not in a position to make any comments about the merits of the claim. Common words can be trademarked. Apple Inc holds the trademark to "apple". Time Magazine holds the trademark to "time". Caterpillar Inc holds the trademark to "caterpillar". They're all common words and they all appear in the federal trademark register, which you can check yourself at USPTO.gov. If someone else uses these common words in commerce in the industries the trademark holders operate in, they will be infringing, they will be taken to court, they will lose their cases, and they will pay damages to the trademark holders. What's absurd is operating in the software industry without even basic knowledge of intellectual property laws.
SparrowOS 14y ago
God says... C:\Text\QUIX.TXT Sancho; "for I have heard say that the Moors are mostly great lovers of berengenas." "Thou must have mistaken the surname of this 'Cide'--which means in Arabic 'Lord'--Sancho," observed Don Quixote. "Very likely," replied Sancho, "but if your worship wishes me to fetch the bachelor I will go for him in a twinkling." "Thou wilt do me a great pleasure, my friend," said Don Quixote, "for what thou hast told me has amazed me, and I shall not eat a morsel that will agree with me until I have hear
tl2201 14y ago
All due respect, how do you know this C&D is real? What law firm claims to have issued it? What mailserver sent the headers? Is it an SPF match? This sounds like something /b/ would do as a prank.
- courtneycouch0 14y ago
  Well considering we got the notice via overnight courier from his law firm (LEASON ELLIS) I think we can rule out /b/
  - tl2201 14y ago
    I'd be surprised if moot actually got a law firm to try to enforce a trademark on moot as he has registered no trademark under moot or m00t with the USPTO. Have you confirmed with the attorney listed on the letter that the address is legitimate? Again, all due respect, but I've had fedex letters with a fake return address before. Paying for overnight shipping is kind of stupid for a prank, but could be done (in my case, a party was trying to get information from me that I declined to give earlier, and tried to get me to give it under false pretense). If he did actually send that (it's legitimate), as per earlier comments, I'm baffled because with no trademark over a dictionary word, I just don't see it carrying any real weight.
    - courtneycouch0 14y ago
      It is a legitimate request. Honestly we were quite surprised/baffled to receive it as well.
      - tl2201 14y ago
        That's utterly unenforceable (not a lawyer though). The users on his site are asking him for comment (via email), usually rowdiness about lawyers and him being greedy (or whatever) is floating around. Curious to see if he acknowledges it. Without a registered mark though it's really just kind of huffing and puffing...making a case on moot being recognizable and moot.it hurting his name is ludicrous (in my opinion). Ludicrous stuff like this happens all the time, like the C&D against Zen Magnets by Buckyballs a while back. Completely baseless but they sent it.
tanami 14y ago
This sounds more like a publicity stunt by moot.it than anything else.
courtneycouch0 14y ago
http://betabeat.com/2012/11/4chan-founder-moot-sends-cease-desist-letter-to-startup-moot-it/ http://betabeat.com/2012/11/4chan-founder-moot-sends-cease-d...
tipiirai 14y ago
This is now on BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20408037 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20408037

13 points by tipiirai 14y ago

tamoorshafi 14y ago

this is funny, Christopher Poole is wasting his time.... and wasting the time of the guys at moot Inc

GameOfTrolls 14y ago

m00tler did nothing wrong.

lutusp 14y ago

This is absurd -- "moot" is a common word, not a trademark or copyrightable property. http://fairuse.stanford.edu/commentary_and_analysis/2003_09_stim.html http://fairuse.stanford.edu/commentary_and_analysis/2003_09_... A quote: "Copyright laws disfavor protection for short phrases. Such claims are viewed with suspicion by the Copyright Office, whose circulars state that, '... slogans, and other short phrases or expressions cannot be copyrighted.'"

courtneycouch0 14y ago
Seriously. kind of baffling that he even decided to try this!
- tl2201 14y ago
  I sent you an email on this matter...please read
tipiirai 14y ago
Indeed. I guess he simply trusted on his big name on this. Tried to scare.
bobsmith4219 14y ago
Paris Hilton disagrees http://gawker.com/5648787/paris-hilton-owns-the-phrase-thats-hot-and-other-revelations-that-could-ruin-the-weather-channel http://gawker.com/5648787/paris-hilton-owns-the-phrase-thats... No matter how absurd, anything is possible. Welcome to 2012
- tipiirai 14y ago
  Wow. That's hot! Welcome to USA.
  - jannelehtinen 14y ago
    Or maybe just Paris :P
- lutusp 14y ago
  > Paris Hilton disagrees That's not a good example. Consider "Sun Microsystems". Can "Sun" be protected? No. Can "Microsystems" be protected? No again. Can both together be protected? Yes, of course.
  - dangrossman 14y ago
    > Can "Sun" be protected? Yes. Why do you think it can't? Recall that Apple has successfully gained and defended its trademark on the word "apple", easily as common a word as "sun", in the relevant industries it operates. "Time" is trademarked by TIME Magazine, and "caterpillar" by Caterpilllar Inc., the construction equipment company. Feel free to check yourself. Federally registered trademarks are publicly searchable on the USPTO website. You'll find not only the registration for the word APPLE, but if you do a design mark search, you'll find quite a few drawings of the sun are registered trademarks as well.
    - lutusp 14y ago
      >> Can "Sun" be protected? > Yes. Why do you think it can't? Because it cannot be protected, not that an agency won't issue a document to that effect. A company that expects to use a common word as a trademark can expect to have a public-relations nightmare on their their hands as they try to keep people from using the "protected" word for any other purpose. Examples abound -- even words that aren't everyday words lose protection over time. How successful has Xerox been in getting people to say "dry electrostatic copy"? How successful has Johnson & Johnson been in getting people to say "adhesive compress" instead of "Band-Aid? This isn't about law, it's about reality. Reality trumps law. The present controversy over software patents shows the degree to which people in the legal profession think they can prevail over reality. They can't -- not for long, anyway.
dangrossman 14y ago
Trademark, not copyright, is the applicable law here. Copyright protects creative works like books or paintings or program code. Trademark protects names and marks used to identify the source of things. Brands are commonly one word or even one symbol and have trademark protection. If you can't identify the applicable law for a situation, you're probably not in a position to make any comments about the merits of the claim. Common words can be trademarked. Apple Inc holds the trademark to "apple". Time Magazine holds the trademark to "time". Caterpillar Inc holds the trademark to "caterpillar". They're all common words and they all appear in the federal trademark register, which you can check yourself at USPTO.gov. If someone else uses these common words in commerce in the industries the trademark holders operate in, they will be infringing, they will be taken to court, they will lose their cases, and they will pay damages to the trademark holders. What's absurd is operating in the software industry without even basic knowledge of intellectual property laws.

SparrowOS 14y ago

God says... C:\Text\QUIX.TXT Sancho; "for I have heard say that the Moors are mostly great lovers of berengenas." "Thou must have mistaken the surname of this 'Cide'--which means in Arabic 'Lord'--Sancho," observed Don Quixote. "Very likely," replied Sancho, "but if your worship wishes me to fetch the bachelor I will go for him in a twinkling." "Thou wilt do me a great pleasure, my friend," said Don Quixote, "for what thou hast told me has amazed me, and I shall not eat a morsel that will agree with me until I have hear

tl2201 14y ago

All due respect, how do you know this C&D is real? What law firm claims to have issued it? What mailserver sent the headers? Is it an SPF match? This sounds like something /b/ would do as a prank.

courtneycouch0 14y ago
Well considering we got the notice via overnight courier from his law firm (LEASON ELLIS) I think we can rule out /b/
- tl2201 14y ago
  I'd be surprised if moot actually got a law firm to try to enforce a trademark on moot as he has registered no trademark under moot or m00t with the USPTO. Have you confirmed with the attorney listed on the letter that the address is legitimate? Again, all due respect, but I've had fedex letters with a fake return address before. Paying for overnight shipping is kind of stupid for a prank, but could be done (in my case, a party was trying to get information from me that I declined to give earlier, and tried to get me to give it under false pretense). If he did actually send that (it's legitimate), as per earlier comments, I'm baffled because with no trademark over a dictionary word, I just don't see it carrying any real weight.
  - courtneycouch0 14y ago
    It is a legitimate request. Honestly we were quite surprised/baffled to receive it as well.
    - tl2201 14y ago
      That's utterly unenforceable (not a lawyer though). The users on his site are asking him for comment (via email), usually rowdiness about lawyers and him being greedy (or whatever) is floating around. Curious to see if he acknowledges it. Without a registered mark though it's really just kind of huffing and puffing...making a case on moot being recognizable and moot.it hurting his name is ludicrous (in my opinion). Ludicrous stuff like this happens all the time, like the C&D against Zen Magnets by Buckyballs a while back. Completely baseless but they sent it.

tanami 14y ago

This sounds more like a publicity stunt by moot.it than anything else.

courtneycouch0 14y ago

http://betabeat.com/2012/11/4chan-founder-moot-sends-cease-desist-letter-to-startup-moot-it/ http://betabeat.com/2012/11/4chan-founder-moot-sends-cease-d...

tipiirai 14y ago

This is now on BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20408037 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20408037