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from permacomputing.net: ... an anti-capitalist political project. ... anarchism ... intersectional feminism ... No, thanks. I thought it was a tech project.

by lynx97 5mo ago

from permacomputing.net: ... an anti-capitalist political project. ... anarchism ... intersectional feminism ... No, thanks. I thought it was a tech project. Apparently not.

antics9 5mo ago
On what page did you find that?
- lynx97 5mo ago
  Second paragraph on the front page: https://permacomputing.net https://permacomputing.net
  - BirAdam 5mo ago
    It's also not just those three: "With that said, permacomputing is an anti-capitalist political project. It is driven by several strands of anarchism, decoloniality, intersectional feminism, post-marxism, degrowth, ecologism." Even for myself, an anarchist, that jumble of ideologies isn't appealing.
jochem9 5mo ago
One does not rule out the other. In the end it's nerds messing with hardware. Lots of computer culture is rooted in anarchism, anti-capitalism and a fight for fairness. E.g. early internet culture, the open source community. Imo it's very nice to see explicit anti-capitalist movements within tech, because the other side of tech is so completely over the top capitalist.
- tolerance 5mo ago
  > In the end it's nerds messing with hardware. Am I being lazy or does this imply that all (or true) nerds are anarchist anti-capitalist feminists.
  - t-3 5mo ago
    No. Some $x do $y does not imply that all/most/many/true $x do $y. It implies that some $x do $y.
    - lynx97 5mo ago
      Well, yes, but no. Hacker Community projects increasingly force political agendas on participants. It gets harder and harder to just do tech stuff without having to align with some cabal.
      - stackghost 5mo ago
        Being apolitical just means your politics align with the status quo. Technology is inherently political in nature, because it affects society in material ways.
        Joker_vD 5mo ago
        > because it affects society in material ways. I'm fairly certain the word for that is "economical". Of course, the politics grows out of the economical relationships, but they are still different things: changes in technology may or may not change the political climate (I am fairly certain that an invention of e.g. a tin can opener did not have any noticeably political effects).
        t-3 5mo ago
        > (I am fairly certain that an invention of e.g. a tin can opener did not have any noticeably political effects). The tin can certainly did though! "Can openers" are particularly distinct refinement of the cutting tool for a specific application, but not any kind of new technology.
        lynx97 5mo ago
        "If you are not supporting us, you are the enemy" isn't a valid take. But it shows nicely the sentiment which turns me off regarding politics in tech. You can't even stay neutral, because someone will force you to align with their values. "My way or the highway" pretty much.
- lynx97 5mo ago
  anti-capitalism, while a bit strange a lable, is something I can sympathize with. But once we are talking anarchism and (intersectional) feminism in a computing context, I am definitely out. I miss the time when computing was a lot less political. It was nice hacking on projects without having to identify with something totally unrelated, or being forced to support idiologies just to be a part of it.
  - hyperjeff 5mo ago
    clearly not a reader of Mondo 2000 back in the day. i do miss real hacker culture.
  - tenuousemphasis 5mo ago
    If you at all understood any of those three things you would know that they are all closely related.
  - boudin 5mo ago
    The web originally was way closer to anarchism and I really miss that. It was a cluster of self-organising communities, little to no intervention from the state, a lot was not profit driven. Same with IRC.
    - colechristensen 5mo ago
      The web was invented at CERN and spread through universities and got taken up by nerds. It could not possibly have been more state sponsored.
      - boudin 5mo ago
        And the Internet was state sponsored too, at the time though it was not even legal to create communication networks in a lot of countries. But that's the premises But what it gave birth to was a form of anarchy. One doesn't go against the other, the same way a political regime can change within a country.
  - tolerance 5mo ago
HerbManic 5mo ago
I get why you wouldn't see this as inviting. But we need to merge the humanities with technology because if both sides ignore the other than both sides will blindly walk into the worst out comes of the other side.
- colechristensen 5mo ago
  [flagged]
- eigencoder 5mo ago
  I don't disagree with you, I think we need both the humanities and technology. But this group hasn't listed "the humanities", but a rather reactionary and recent limiting subset of the humanities.
- modo_mario 5mo ago
  I find it sad to see that pile of ideologies is so easily taken to represent the humanities.
unfirehose 5mo ago
check out my version at permacomputer dot com

by lynx97 5mo ago

from permacomputing.net: ... an anti-capitalist political project. ... anarchism ... intersectional feminism ... No, thanks. I thought it was a tech project. Apparently not.

antics9 5mo ago

On what page did you find that?

lynx97 5mo ago
Second paragraph on the front page: https://permacomputing.net https://permacomputing.net
- BirAdam 5mo ago
  It's also not just those three: "With that said, permacomputing is an anti-capitalist political project. It is driven by several strands of anarchism, decoloniality, intersectional feminism, post-marxism, degrowth, ecologism." Even for myself, an anarchist, that jumble of ideologies isn't appealing.

jochem9 5mo ago

One does not rule out the other. In the end it's nerds messing with hardware. Lots of computer culture is rooted in anarchism, anti-capitalism and a fight for fairness. E.g. early internet culture, the open source community. Imo it's very nice to see explicit anti-capitalist movements within tech, because the other side of tech is so completely over the top capitalist.

tolerance 5mo ago
> In the end it's nerds messing with hardware. Am I being lazy or does this imply that all (or true) nerds are anarchist anti-capitalist feminists.
- t-3 5mo ago
  No. Some $x do $y does not imply that all/most/many/true $x do $y. It implies that some $x do $y.
  - lynx97 5mo ago
    Well, yes, but no. Hacker Community projects increasingly force political agendas on participants. It gets harder and harder to just do tech stuff without having to align with some cabal.
    - stackghost 5mo ago
      Being apolitical just means your politics align with the status quo. Technology is inherently political in nature, because it affects society in material ways.
      - Joker_vD 5mo ago
        > because it affects society in material ways. I'm fairly certain the word for that is "economical". Of course, the politics grows out of the economical relationships, but they are still different things: changes in technology may or may not change the political climate (I am fairly certain that an invention of e.g. a tin can opener did not have any noticeably political effects).
        t-3 5mo ago
        > (I am fairly certain that an invention of e.g. a tin can opener did not have any noticeably political effects). The tin can certainly did though! "Can openers" are particularly distinct refinement of the cutting tool for a specific application, but not any kind of new technology.
      - lynx97 5mo ago
        "If you are not supporting us, you are the enemy" isn't a valid take. But it shows nicely the sentiment which turns me off regarding politics in tech. You can't even stay neutral, because someone will force you to align with their values. "My way or the highway" pretty much.
lynx97 5mo ago
anti-capitalism, while a bit strange a lable, is something I can sympathize with. But once we are talking anarchism and (intersectional) feminism in a computing context, I am definitely out. I miss the time when computing was a lot less political. It was nice hacking on projects without having to identify with something totally unrelated, or being forced to support idiologies just to be a part of it.
- hyperjeff 5mo ago
  clearly not a reader of Mondo 2000 back in the day. i do miss real hacker culture.
- tenuousemphasis 5mo ago
  If you at all understood any of those three things you would know that they are all closely related.
- boudin 5mo ago
  The web originally was way closer to anarchism and I really miss that. It was a cluster of self-organising communities, little to no intervention from the state, a lot was not profit driven. Same with IRC.
  - colechristensen 5mo ago
    The web was invented at CERN and spread through universities and got taken up by nerds. It could not possibly have been more state sponsored.
    - boudin 5mo ago
      And the Internet was state sponsored too, at the time though it was not even legal to create communication networks in a lot of countries. But that's the premises But what it gave birth to was a form of anarchy. One doesn't go against the other, the same way a political regime can change within a country.
- tolerance 5mo ago

HerbManic 5mo ago

I get why you wouldn't see this as inviting. But we need to merge the humanities with technology because if both sides ignore the other than both sides will blindly walk into the worst out comes of the other side.

colechristensen 5mo ago
[flagged]
eigencoder 5mo ago
I don't disagree with you, I think we need both the humanities and technology. But this group hasn't listed "the humanities", but a rather reactionary and recent limiting subset of the humanities.
modo_mario 5mo ago
I find it sad to see that pile of ideologies is so easily taken to represent the humanities.

unfirehose 5mo ago

check out my version at permacomputer dot com