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Mumbai girl arrested for Facebook post

177 points by ashray 14y ago

deleted 14y ago
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guard-of-terra 14y ago
I hope that people who still think religions "make people better than they would otherwise be" are happy now.
- zobzu 14y ago
  Like if that ever changed anything. History, while(1) continue; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
- ashray 14y ago
  I .. I'm just ashamed of what's happening over here these days. Free speech appears to be an absolute illusion. It's all well and good until you say something even remotely related or critical of a popular personality. Then, it's jungle law.
  - guard-of-terra 14y ago
    I don't see religious people disapproving of this and therefore conclude they aren't good. We could probably get a refund on them.
- wildranter 14y ago
  When you generalize like that you're being narrow minded as the people you're criticizing. Instead, like Feynman, you should take what's best from religion to improve yourself, and ignore the rest. History shows the average human being is stupid, so don't be average.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - zeru 14y ago
    Well, would you disagree with that the world would be a better place without religion in this day and age?
    - stfu 14y ago
      It depends. I would say that religions give a lot of people a meaningful life by providing values, hope and guidance on what they should aspire to. But there are always those on the extreme fringes, who make the rest look bad.
      - guard-of-terra 14y ago
        It seems faith should be like a prescription drug: it should be practiced by people who need it. But instead it's like illegal drug, which is used by all kinds of people and it hurts a sizable chunk of them: and also makes their relatives' lives tougher.
      - beagle3 14y ago
        That's what they claim to give. And many of those people actually believe this, to the point of assuming that anyone who is not religious has no values or morals, and is obviously driven completely by hedonism. The question is not "what role does religion fulfil", but rather, "if religion wasn't there, would things have been better?". Because, e.g. many recreational drugs ALSO provide values, hope, and guidance (on one hand), and some religions like Mormonism and Scientology also provide them, but apparently forbid leaving them (read about excommunicating in either) to the point that I find unacceptable in a society. Disregarding the obstacle of definition of religion vs. e.g. cult vs. value system[1], my opinion would be, based on observing mostly-religious states vs. mostly-secular states (like Sweden and Norway), would be that value provided by religion is a net negative. [1] if you insist, I will say that beleief X is a religion iff there's a government of a country with >10M residents that accepts it as a religion for the purpose of its law. Specific definition is immaterial - they will all coincide for 99% of the population, and will have essentially no effect in the grand scheme of things.
- pretoriusB 14y ago
  Well, nobody said that about all religions (e.g not for "virgin sacrificing daemon worship" -- though it does sound fun), and for all people practicing them. Christianity didn't make Torquemada any good, but it worked quite well for St. Aquinas. With that said, the story doesn't have much to do with religion. The guy who funeral they said shouldn't matter was a political leader, not a priest. The guys that sued/prosecuted the girls did mention "hurting religious sentiments", but that was merely because that was the only semi-plausible accusation under law (since it was a funeral). In actuality it was a political chase -- people thought they insulted their dear party leader. (Oh, and it's not like the police arrested them for what they did. The police detained them temporarily just because they had to: that's the law when such an accusation is made, even for someone who didn't do anything).
  - guard-of-terra 14y ago
    But if there were no "religious sentiments", there will be no law. Religion looks even worse in this case: they're a politican's bitch (psychology term) and they seem to be content with that.
    - pretoriusB 14y ago
      >But if there were no "religious sentiments", there will be no law. Which is no argument at all. It's like saying, "if there weren't blacks, there would be no racism". You can have restrictive laws based on everything, no need to single out religion. Sources of restrictive laws range from health (like the drug laws), to tolerance (no hate speech), to patriotism (too many to mention), to children (internet censorship etc). That doesn't mean the sources are bad themselves.
      - guard-of-terra 14y ago
        Religion is a particulary nasty offender in the free speech department. And it's not like I don't blame internet censorships, "war on drugs" and stuff. I do. They have their times.
  - _delirium 14y ago
- zoul 14y ago
  This is an unfair generalization. Also please note that religion does not equal faith.
  - guard-of-terra 14y ago
    I don't blame faith. Faith is your fundamental right. But I do blame religion. The word is 'anticlericalism'.
- rockyj 14y ago
  Bal Thackeray has nothing to do with religion, he was more like a far right politician. In India there is a huge celebrity cult (people get crazy about politicians / actors / sportsmen) and Bal T's followers / goons virtually own Mumbai. I live in India and it is becoming a police state much like China, people have been arrested just for criticizing politicians on Twitter. Anything I say online can hurt anyone so I stand a risk of being arrested if I criticize even the local politician. Also, things will not improve only get worse. In other news, I am trying hard to get out of here and its not easy.
  - z3phyr 14y ago
    ”much like china” I beg to differ... India is finding its own path, and well, it's still mostly democratic.. Much like the USA.
- thewarrior 14y ago
  Its not religion to blame here . Its the law . Here is the relevant section : >>Any person who sends, by means of a computer resource or a communication device,- >>a) any information that is grossly offensive or has menacing character; or >>b) any information which he knows to be false, but for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience, danger, obstruction, insult, injury, criminal intimidation, enmity, hatred, or ill will, persistently makes by making use of such computer resource or a communication device,
- rickylais 14y ago
  I think you are confusing the issue here. This is not about religion. Bal Thakrey is a politician not a religious leader.
vinothshankaran 14y ago
The story is false https://twitter.com/SreenivasanJain/status/270394505063194624 https://twitter.com/SreenivasanJain/status/27039450506319462...
- ashray 14y ago
  Really ? The guy tweeting seems legit but even timesofindia has this story: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/21-year-old-girl-arrested-for-Facebook-post-slamming-Bal-Thackeray/articleshow/17276979.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/21-year-old-girl-ar... Also the vandalism of the clinic definitely happened.
  - HaloZero 14y ago
    the text is the same, they could just be reposting it from mumbaimirror without a lot fact checking
    - thewarrior 14y ago
      It seems she was just detained and then released.
    - ashray 14y ago
      That's quite possible, the copy paste is quite obvious though I don't know for sure which way it went. I don't know who this tweet is from or his credibility so I'll just leave it up in the air for now. It's still alarming that they were vandalized over a facebook post and the police is looking into possible criminal liability. Also, the news reports talk specifically of what sections of law the girls were booked under. Doesn't sound so fake because of that.
  - HaloZero 14y ago
    the text is the same, they could just be reposting it from mumbaimirror without a lot fact checking
  - neya 14y ago
    Times of India is a shitty news organization, they're just like Techcrunch, but for the whole nation.
guard-of-terra 14y ago
I hope this "Bal Thackeray" is happy now too: he caused two girls to be arrested. I hope he is happy too wherever he is now. What nice way to go out with the bang!
- dm8 14y ago
  Lets not bring one particular politician into discussion here. Question is IT laws and freedom of speech. Not the greatness of certain politician!
- piyush_ranjan 14y ago
  He did go out with a bang. His funeral was attended by 2 million people!
jetru 14y ago
Am I the only one who finds it ironic that it was the girl who got booked under "Section 295 (a) of the IPC (for hurting religious sentiments)" - hate speech laws?
- thewarrior 14y ago
  Well people on HN in general wouldnt be aware of Bal Thackeray . So the irony would be lost on them .
muon 14y ago
There is high possibility of this being true, but still news is only as good as its source.
petercooper 14y ago
Police on Sunday arrested a 21-year-old girl A 21 year old girl..
- plinkplonk 14y ago
  Indian English treats 'girl' as equal to 'woman' in most contexts. Likewise 'boy' == 'man'. as seen in marital partners ads '41 year old boy seeks 35 year old girl ... ' (fwiw I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Indian newspapers should use the local flavor, rather than trying to conform to (say) US English)
  - petercooper 14y ago
    That's very intriguing. I was wondering if it was diminution based on gender but if they're doing it for everyone, that makes it more interesting.
- xiaoma 14y ago
  This site probably isn't the best place for linguistic prescriptivism.
  - petercooper 14y ago
    It's not about prescriptivism. It's questioning a rather bizarre word usage in English. If I called you a "frog" you might query why I were using such an odd term. So it goes here.
manamol296 14y ago
No girl's arrested. They just made up the story to stop negative online trend related to Bal Thackeray. His death made a lot of people to start a worthless debate on facebook and twitter.
- ashray 14y ago
  Why do you say that the debates were worthless ? What's wrong with discussing a situation and it's outcomes ?
- denzil_correa 14y ago
  > His death made a lot of people to start a worthless debate on facebook and twitter. First, the girl is arrested and that's confirmed. Second, it is not for you & me to decide how people use their personal Facebook and Twitter accounts. You and I get no say in it - if they want to indulge in 'worthless debates' they should be allowed to. In addition, that should not be held against them in any sort of way.
  - prakashk 14y ago
    > _if they want to indulge in 'worthless debates' they should be allowed to._ Calling a debate "worthless" is not the same as disallowing such debates. Just like one has the right to engage in debates (worthless or not), one also has the right to call out such debates when they are deemed worthless.
    - enry_straker 14y ago
      Tilting at windmills, don quixote?
capred 14y ago
Although this girl might be arrested today, this general trend (growing accessibility to information) will show more and more people that there is a world beyond their immediate experience and what they are being told by people like Bal is false. Bal Thackeray was a bigot. He sought and exploited communal tensions and it's a shame that one can't openly criticize such a reprehensible person. Furthermore, his party Shiv Sena "operates as a network of street gangs" and is holds ideology which isn't far from the Tea Party in America.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
  - m0skit0 14y ago
    Police did not find that OK. Police just make people obey the law. And politicians write the laws. And back to politics again, so end of the story. Here you can just argue if such laws are OK or not, which will also end in a political debate anyway.
  - yarrel 14y ago
    Unless they were arrested by the Facebook police, you're discussing Indian politics.
  - n0mad01 14y ago
    Maybe it's for the girls own safety? "a mob of some 2,000 Shiv Sena workers attacked and ransacked her uncle’s orthopaedic clinic"
- ae_envy 14y ago
  You will probably get arrested soon :P
- easternmonk 14y ago
  While Bal Thakare's politics might be irrelevant in todays times. Do not forget that he was the only voice common people had when Communists/Islamists ruled the streets and the Socialist Congress government ruled as helpless as ever. When China invaded India, the communist party in India was calling nationwide protests "in support of china" and was running "fund raising drives". That was the first time Bal Thakare turned from a cartoonist to a mass leader. The political party was truly formed when Islamists forced the central government to change Indian constitution to apply horrible Islamic Sharia law to ensure that a 60 year old lady divorced after 40 years of marriage will not get any alimony from her rich husband. Muslims across the mumbai would then celebrate their victory by blocking the traffic and holding Namaz on streets. Bal Thakare seemed to be the only voice weaker sections of society had that time. Yes, like all other organizations even Shiv Sena was not perfect and many times local goons and mafias joined this party for their own gains but more or less this party remains much more faithful to common people than the other parties. 1. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah_Bano_case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah_Bano_case] 2. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_India#Communists_after_independence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_India#Commun...]
nleach 14y ago
A co-worker in Mumbai also made some controversial statements on Facebook. He's absolutely fine, but just about every one of his friends scolded him for being so brazen. I was out of the city for the weekend, but by all accounts it was a terrible place to be. This news is not terribly surprising, though as many have said, likely not true. It is extremely indicative of the immense gap between India and more developed nations.
jasim 14y ago
Bal Thackeray or communal politics is not the issue here. It is the freedom of expression of individuals. The Chairman of Press Club of India had an article on The Hindu (a national daily) which painted Thackeray in a bad light (http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/why-i-cant-pay-tribute-to-thackeray/article4108839.ece http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/why-i-cant-pay-tribute...) - but the state won't act as recklessly against him as they have against these two. Recent events in the country that sets the alarm bells ringing: - Kapil Sibal (minister of communication) doesn't understand the internet. He wants active censorship of online media - http://www.labnol.org/india/censorship-in-india/20527/ http://www.labnol.org/india/censorship-in-india/20527/. - An individual was arrested from his home at 5am due to a tweet he made alleging the son of an Indian minister was corrupt. He had 16 followers. http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/iac-volunteer-tweets-himself-into-trouble-faces-three-years-in-jail/article4051769.ece http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/iac-volunteer-tweets-h... And now this - both the individual who made the post on FB and her friend who 'like'd it has been arrested. This abuse of power in a country with a lot more urgent problems to solve. This very much seems to be a generation gap between people in positions of power (politicians, bureaucrats, police) who are not used to the internet and the way it gives voice to everyone. I can only hope that as internet becomes ubiquitous across the country, people will realize the value of free speech and the need for an uncensored internet.
- dm8 14y ago
  >> This very much seems to be a generation gap between people in positions of power (politicians, bureaucrats, police) who are not used to the internet and the way it gives voice to everyone. Unfortunately, it is true and I fear we might have draconian laws to "regulate" Internet in India!
- Volpe 14y ago
  As fun as it is to think everyone thinks like americans... Does India have and promote the ideal of "Freedom of Expression"? Or is this just the US peanut gallery giving their 2 cents on other peoples' culture?
  - rrrazdan 14y ago
piyush_ranjan 14y ago
Guys free speech has limits. Bal thackrey died three days ago. His funeral yesterday was attended by 2 million people. The whole community mourned his death. I don't think talking ill of a person on the day he died is a wise idea. More so because such a comment may enrage a lot of grieving people. Moreover she was not arrested. There was complain registered against her but she was not arrested. I say move on!
thewarrior 14y ago
This just in : The girl has indeed been arrested . Saw this on NDTV journalist Sreenivasan Jains twitter feed.
denzil_correa 14y ago
This story is now confirmed by a more credible source [0,1]. [0] https://twitter.com/sreenivasanjain/status/270458894193684480 https://twitter.com/sreenivasanjain/status/27045889419368448... [1] https://twitter.com/sreenivasanjain/status/270459007511195648 https://twitter.com/sreenivasanjain/status/27045900751119564...
Praveens 14y ago
Its sad that the freedom of speech for a individual has been erased by misuing the laws which were actually meant to provide justice. The arrest and the eventual ransacking of the victim's uncles clinic by the supporters of Balasahab Thackeray, may have very less to justify the act. I wonder if they would even reflect upon the fact that would the supremo himself support such expressions and outbursts by his partymen and followers. No wonder the signs of the party cracking up are showing and i hope this case becomes a eye opener given that internet has got a wide reach and educates the young to chose the law makers more sensibly.
Praveens 14y ago
Its sad that the freedom of speech for a individual has been erased by misuing the laws which were actually meant to provide justice. The arrest and the eventual ransacking of the victim's uncles clinic by the supporters of Balasahab Thackeray, may have very less to justify the act. I wonder if they would even reflect upon the fact that would the supremo himself support such expressions and outbursts by his partymen and followers. No wonder the signs of the party cracking up are showing and i hope this case becomes a eye opener given that internet has got a wide reach and educates the young to chose the law makers more sensibly.
realrocker 14y ago
I shared this story on my fb account and got a veiled threat in 30 minutes. This is what I posted: "21 old year girl arrested for opposing Mumbai bandh on her Facebook status! 2000 Shiv Sainiks vandalize her Uncle's clinic. Another girl was arrested for liking the status! This is horrible. I blame all the people on facebook and in real world who patronize such violent and undemocratic forces. So much for free speech! The youth of this country are pushed down from all directions every day. Are we supposed to just sit and take it? Today it was Shiv Sena who did this, a fringe party. A few days ago it was Congress cabinet minister's son. What happens if every Political Party starts doing this? How long are we going to sleep? I never say this : Share !!". Note that this person was a well educated guy from my convent school. The extremism in my country is appalling.
denzil_correa 14y ago
News emerging that the girls have been granted bail, an enquiry has been initiated. The local cops may also be in trouble for their action [0]. Good going! [0] https://twitter.com/sreenivasanjain https://twitter.com/sreenivasanjain SreenivasanJain: Both girls initially sent to judicial custody, then granted bail. SreenivasanJain: Maharashtra police HQ has ordered enquiry into girls' arrest. Says will look into merits of charges. SreenivasanJain: IG Konkan will head inquiry. Prima facie police HQ says no basis for arresting the girls. Say local cops jumped the gun.
twapi 14y ago
Her Facebook page (Cached version): http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.facebook.com/shaheen.dhada.7 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.fac...
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
denzil_correa 14y ago
The chairman of Press Council of India and has written to the Chief Minister of the state of Mumbai (Maharashtra) to intervene and sort out this issue citing "freedom of speech" Article 19 (1)(a) of the Indian constitution [0]. [0] http://ibnlive.in.com/news/katju-writes-to-maha-cm-on-arrest-of-girl-for-thackeray-fb-update/306295-3.html http://ibnlive.in.com/news/katju-writes-to-maha-cm-on-arrest...
- aufreak3 14y ago
  This should be upvoted more, as the "Chairman" is "Justice Markandey Katju" whose legal opinion in this matter is credible. Not only does he say that the arrests are against freedom of speech which is "a guaranteed fundamental right", he says that the arrests are criminal according to law too. Quoting the full paragraph here - "" In the letter addressed to Chavan, Justice Katju has written: "It is alleged that she has been arrested for allegedly hurting religious sentiments. To my mind it is absurd to say that protesting against a bandh hurts religious sentiments. Under Article 19(1)(a) of our Constitution, freedom of speech is a guaranteed fundamental right. We are living in a democracy, not a fascist dictatorship. In fact this arrest itself appears to be a criminal act since under sections 341 and 342 it is a crime to wrongfully arrest or wrongfully confine someone who has committed no crime. ""
anuraj 14y ago
This is India, a country where rights exist only on paper. Rights materialize only where people have knowledge and power to defend them. Unfortunately India is a long way from there.

177 points by ashray 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

guard-of-terra 14y ago

I hope that people who still think religions "make people better than they would otherwise be" are happy now.

zobzu 14y ago
Like if that ever changed anything. History, while(1) continue; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades
ashray 14y ago
I .. I'm just ashamed of what's happening over here these days. Free speech appears to be an absolute illusion. It's all well and good until you say something even remotely related or critical of a popular personality. Then, it's jungle law.
- guard-of-terra 14y ago
  I don't see religious people disapproving of this and therefore conclude they aren't good. We could probably get a refund on them.
wildranter 14y ago
When you generalize like that you're being narrow minded as the people you're criticizing. Instead, like Feynman, you should take what's best from religion to improve yourself, and ignore the rest. History shows the average human being is stupid, so don't be average.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- zeru 14y ago
  Well, would you disagree with that the world would be a better place without religion in this day and age?
  - stfu 14y ago
    It depends. I would say that religions give a lot of people a meaningful life by providing values, hope and guidance on what they should aspire to. But there are always those on the extreme fringes, who make the rest look bad.
    - guard-of-terra 14y ago
      It seems faith should be like a prescription drug: it should be practiced by people who need it. But instead it's like illegal drug, which is used by all kinds of people and it hurts a sizable chunk of them: and also makes their relatives' lives tougher.
    - beagle3 14y ago
      That's what they claim to give. And many of those people actually believe this, to the point of assuming that anyone who is not religious has no values or morals, and is obviously driven completely by hedonism. The question is not "what role does religion fulfil", but rather, "if religion wasn't there, would things have been better?". Because, e.g. many recreational drugs ALSO provide values, hope, and guidance (on one hand), and some religions like Mormonism and Scientology also provide them, but apparently forbid leaving them (read about excommunicating in either) to the point that I find unacceptable in a society. Disregarding the obstacle of definition of religion vs. e.g. cult vs. value system[1], my opinion would be, based on observing mostly-religious states vs. mostly-secular states (like Sweden and Norway), would be that value provided by religion is a net negative. [1] if you insist, I will say that beleief X is a religion iff there's a government of a country with >10M residents that accepts it as a religion for the purpose of its law. Specific definition is immaterial - they will all coincide for 99% of the population, and will have essentially no effect in the grand scheme of things.
pretoriusB 14y ago
Well, nobody said that about all religions (e.g not for "virgin sacrificing daemon worship" -- though it does sound fun), and for all people practicing them. Christianity didn't make Torquemada any good, but it worked quite well for St. Aquinas. With that said, the story doesn't have much to do with religion. The guy who funeral they said shouldn't matter was a political leader, not a priest. The guys that sued/prosecuted the girls did mention "hurting religious sentiments", but that was merely because that was the only semi-plausible accusation under law (since it was a funeral). In actuality it was a political chase -- people thought they insulted their dear party leader. (Oh, and it's not like the police arrested them for what they did. The police detained them temporarily just because they had to: that's the law when such an accusation is made, even for someone who didn't do anything).
- guard-of-terra 14y ago
  But if there were no "religious sentiments", there will be no law. Religion looks even worse in this case: they're a politican's bitch (psychology term) and they seem to be content with that.
  - pretoriusB 14y ago
    >But if there were no "religious sentiments", there will be no law. Which is no argument at all. It's like saying, "if there weren't blacks, there would be no racism". You can have restrictive laws based on everything, no need to single out religion. Sources of restrictive laws range from health (like the drug laws), to tolerance (no hate speech), to patriotism (too many to mention), to children (internet censorship etc). That doesn't mean the sources are bad themselves.
    - guard-of-terra 14y ago
      Religion is a particulary nasty offender in the free speech department. And it's not like I don't blame internet censorships, "war on drugs" and stuff. I do. They have their times.
- _delirium 14y ago
zoul 14y ago
This is an unfair generalization. Also please note that religion does not equal faith.
- guard-of-terra 14y ago
  I don't blame faith. Faith is your fundamental right. But I do blame religion. The word is 'anticlericalism'.
rockyj 14y ago
Bal Thackeray has nothing to do with religion, he was more like a far right politician. In India there is a huge celebrity cult (people get crazy about politicians / actors / sportsmen) and Bal T's followers / goons virtually own Mumbai. I live in India and it is becoming a police state much like China, people have been arrested just for criticizing politicians on Twitter. Anything I say online can hurt anyone so I stand a risk of being arrested if I criticize even the local politician. Also, things will not improve only get worse. In other news, I am trying hard to get out of here and its not easy.
- z3phyr 14y ago
  ”much like china” I beg to differ... India is finding its own path, and well, it's still mostly democratic.. Much like the USA.
thewarrior 14y ago
Its not religion to blame here . Its the law . Here is the relevant section : >>Any person who sends, by means of a computer resource or a communication device,- >>a) any information that is grossly offensive or has menacing character; or >>b) any information which he knows to be false, but for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience, danger, obstruction, insult, injury, criminal intimidation, enmity, hatred, or ill will, persistently makes by making use of such computer resource or a communication device,
rickylais 14y ago
I think you are confusing the issue here. This is not about religion. Bal Thakrey is a politician not a religious leader.

vinothshankaran 14y ago

The story is false https://twitter.com/SreenivasanJain/status/270394505063194624 https://twitter.com/SreenivasanJain/status/27039450506319462...

ashray 14y ago
Really ? The guy tweeting seems legit but even timesofindia has this story: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/21-year-old-girl-arrested-for-Facebook-post-slamming-Bal-Thackeray/articleshow/17276979.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/21-year-old-girl-ar... Also the vandalism of the clinic definitely happened.
- HaloZero 14y ago
  the text is the same, they could just be reposting it from mumbaimirror without a lot fact checking
  - thewarrior 14y ago
    It seems she was just detained and then released.
  - ashray 14y ago
    That's quite possible, the copy paste is quite obvious though I don't know for sure which way it went. I don't know who this tweet is from or his credibility so I'll just leave it up in the air for now. It's still alarming that they were vandalized over a facebook post and the police is looking into possible criminal liability. Also, the news reports talk specifically of what sections of law the girls were booked under. Doesn't sound so fake because of that.
- HaloZero 14y ago
  the text is the same, they could just be reposting it from mumbaimirror without a lot fact checking
- neya 14y ago
  Times of India is a shitty news organization, they're just like Techcrunch, but for the whole nation.

guard-of-terra 14y ago

I hope this "Bal Thackeray" is happy now too: he caused two girls to be arrested. I hope he is happy too wherever he is now. What nice way to go out with the bang!

dm8 14y ago
Lets not bring one particular politician into discussion here. Question is IT laws and freedom of speech. Not the greatness of certain politician!
piyush_ranjan 14y ago
He did go out with a bang. His funeral was attended by 2 million people!

jetru 14y ago

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that it was the girl who got booked under "Section 295 (a) of the IPC (for hurting religious sentiments)" - hate speech laws?

thewarrior 14y ago
Well people on HN in general wouldnt be aware of Bal Thackeray . So the irony would be lost on them .

muon 14y ago

There is high possibility of this being true, but still news is only as good as its source.

petercooper 14y ago

Police on Sunday arrested a 21-year-old girl A 21 year old girl..

plinkplonk 14y ago
Indian English treats 'girl' as equal to 'woman' in most contexts. Likewise 'boy' == 'man'. as seen in marital partners ads '41 year old boy seeks 35 year old girl ... ' (fwiw I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Indian newspapers should use the local flavor, rather than trying to conform to (say) US English)
- petercooper 14y ago
  That's very intriguing. I was wondering if it was diminution based on gender but if they're doing it for everyone, that makes it more interesting.
xiaoma 14y ago
This site probably isn't the best place for linguistic prescriptivism.
- petercooper 14y ago
  It's not about prescriptivism. It's questioning a rather bizarre word usage in English. If I called you a "frog" you might query why I were using such an odd term. So it goes here.

manamol296 14y ago

No girl's arrested. They just made up the story to stop negative online trend related to Bal Thackeray. His death made a lot of people to start a worthless debate on facebook and twitter.

ashray 14y ago
Why do you say that the debates were worthless ? What's wrong with discussing a situation and it's outcomes ?
denzil_correa 14y ago
> His death made a lot of people to start a worthless debate on facebook and twitter. First, the girl is arrested and that's confirmed. Second, it is not for you & me to decide how people use their personal Facebook and Twitter accounts. You and I get no say in it - if they want to indulge in 'worthless debates' they should be allowed to. In addition, that should not be held against them in any sort of way.
- prakashk 14y ago
  > _if they want to indulge in 'worthless debates' they should be allowed to._ Calling a debate "worthless" is not the same as disallowing such debates. Just like one has the right to engage in debates (worthless or not), one also has the right to call out such debates when they are deemed worthless.
  - enry_straker 14y ago
    Tilting at windmills, don quixote?

capred 14y ago

Although this girl might be arrested today, this general trend (growing accessibility to information) will show more and more people that there is a world beyond their immediate experience and what they are being told by people like Bal is false. Bal Thackeray was a bigot. He sought and exploited communal tensions and it's a shame that one can't openly criticize such a reprehensible person. Furthermore, his party Shiv Sena "operates as a network of street gangs" and is holds ideology which isn't far from the Tea Party in America.

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- m0skit0 14y ago
  Police did not find that OK. Police just make people obey the law. And politicians write the laws. And back to politics again, so end of the story. Here you can just argue if such laws are OK or not, which will also end in a political debate anyway.
- yarrel 14y ago
  Unless they were arrested by the Facebook police, you're discussing Indian politics.
- n0mad01 14y ago
  Maybe it's for the girls own safety? "a mob of some 2,000 Shiv Sena workers attacked and ransacked her uncle’s orthopaedic clinic"
ae_envy 14y ago
You will probably get arrested soon :P
easternmonk 14y ago
While Bal Thakare's politics might be irrelevant in todays times. Do not forget that he was the only voice common people had when Communists/Islamists ruled the streets and the Socialist Congress government ruled as helpless as ever. When China invaded India, the communist party in India was calling nationwide protests "in support of china" and was running "fund raising drives". That was the first time Bal Thakare turned from a cartoonist to a mass leader. The political party was truly formed when Islamists forced the central government to change Indian constitution to apply horrible Islamic Sharia law to ensure that a 60 year old lady divorced after 40 years of marriage will not get any alimony from her rich husband. Muslims across the mumbai would then celebrate their victory by blocking the traffic and holding Namaz on streets. Bal Thakare seemed to be the only voice weaker sections of society had that time. Yes, like all other organizations even Shiv Sena was not perfect and many times local goons and mafias joined this party for their own gains but more or less this party remains much more faithful to common people than the other parties. 1. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah_Bano_case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah_Bano_case] 2. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_India#Communists_after_independence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_India#Commun...]

nleach 14y ago

A co-worker in Mumbai also made some controversial statements on Facebook. He's absolutely fine, but just about every one of his friends scolded him for being so brazen. I was out of the city for the weekend, but by all accounts it was a terrible place to be. This news is not terribly surprising, though as many have said, likely not true. It is extremely indicative of the immense gap between India and more developed nations.

jasim 14y ago

Bal Thackeray or communal politics is not the issue here. It is the freedom of expression of individuals. The Chairman of Press Club of India had an article on The Hindu (a national daily) which painted Thackeray in a bad light (http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/why-i-cant-pay-tribute-to-thackeray/article4108839.ece http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/why-i-cant-pay-tribute...) - but the state won't act as recklessly against him as they have against these two. Recent events in the country that sets the alarm bells ringing: - Kapil Sibal (minister of communication) doesn't understand the internet. He wants active censorship of online media - http://www.labnol.org/india/censorship-in-india/20527/ http://www.labnol.org/india/censorship-in-india/20527/. - An individual was arrested from his home at 5am due to a tweet he made alleging the son of an Indian minister was corrupt. He had 16 followers. http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/iac-volunteer-tweets-himself-into-trouble-faces-three-years-in-jail/article4051769.ece http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/iac-volunteer-tweets-h... And now this - both the individual who made the post on FB and her friend who 'like'd it has been arrested. This abuse of power in a country with a lot more urgent problems to solve. This very much seems to be a generation gap between people in positions of power (politicians, bureaucrats, police) who are not used to the internet and the way it gives voice to everyone. I can only hope that as internet becomes ubiquitous across the country, people will realize the value of free speech and the need for an uncensored internet.

dm8 14y ago
>> This very much seems to be a generation gap between people in positions of power (politicians, bureaucrats, police) who are not used to the internet and the way it gives voice to everyone. Unfortunately, it is true and I fear we might have draconian laws to "regulate" Internet in India!
Volpe 14y ago
As fun as it is to think everyone thinks like americans... Does India have and promote the ideal of "Freedom of Expression"? Or is this just the US peanut gallery giving their 2 cents on other peoples' culture?
- rrrazdan 14y ago

piyush_ranjan 14y ago

Guys free speech has limits. Bal thackrey died three days ago. His funeral yesterday was attended by 2 million people. The whole community mourned his death. I don't think talking ill of a person on the day he died is a wise idea. More so because such a comment may enrage a lot of grieving people. Moreover she was not arrested. There was complain registered against her but she was not arrested. I say move on!

thewarrior 14y ago

This just in : The girl has indeed been arrested . Saw this on NDTV journalist Sreenivasan Jains twitter feed.

denzil_correa 14y ago

This story is now confirmed by a more credible source [0,1]. [0] https://twitter.com/sreenivasanjain/status/270458894193684480 https://twitter.com/sreenivasanjain/status/27045889419368448... [1] https://twitter.com/sreenivasanjain/status/270459007511195648 https://twitter.com/sreenivasanjain/status/27045900751119564...

Praveens 14y ago

Its sad that the freedom of speech for a individual has been erased by misuing the laws which were actually meant to provide justice. The arrest and the eventual ransacking of the victim's uncles clinic by the supporters of Balasahab Thackeray, may have very less to justify the act. I wonder if they would even reflect upon the fact that would the supremo himself support such expressions and outbursts by his partymen and followers. No wonder the signs of the party cracking up are showing and i hope this case becomes a eye opener given that internet has got a wide reach and educates the young to chose the law makers more sensibly.

Praveens 14y ago

realrocker 14y ago

I shared this story on my fb account and got a veiled threat in 30 minutes. This is what I posted: "21 old year girl arrested for opposing Mumbai bandh on her Facebook status! 2000 Shiv Sainiks vandalize her Uncle's clinic. Another girl was arrested for liking the status! This is horrible. I blame all the people on facebook and in real world who patronize such violent and undemocratic forces. So much for free speech! The youth of this country are pushed down from all directions every day. Are we supposed to just sit and take it? Today it was Shiv Sena who did this, a fringe party. A few days ago it was Congress cabinet minister's son. What happens if every Political Party starts doing this? How long are we going to sleep? I never say this : Share !!". Note that this person was a well educated guy from my convent school. The extremism in my country is appalling.

denzil_correa 14y ago

News emerging that the girls have been granted bail, an enquiry has been initiated. The local cops may also be in trouble for their action [0]. Good going! [0] https://twitter.com/sreenivasanjain https://twitter.com/sreenivasanjain SreenivasanJain: Both girls initially sent to judicial custody, then granted bail. SreenivasanJain: Maharashtra police HQ has ordered enquiry into girls' arrest. Says will look into merits of charges. SreenivasanJain: IG Konkan will head inquiry. Prima facie police HQ says no basis for arresting the girls. Say local cops jumped the gun.

twapi 14y ago

Her Facebook page (Cached version): http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.facebook.com/shaheen.dhada.7 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:www.fac...

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denzil_correa 14y ago

The chairman of Press Council of India and has written to the Chief Minister of the state of Mumbai (Maharashtra) to intervene and sort out this issue citing "freedom of speech" Article 19 (1)(a) of the Indian constitution [0]. [0] http://ibnlive.in.com/news/katju-writes-to-maha-cm-on-arrest-of-girl-for-thackeray-fb-update/306295-3.html http://ibnlive.in.com/news/katju-writes-to-maha-cm-on-arrest...

aufreak3 14y ago
This should be upvoted more, as the "Chairman" is "Justice Markandey Katju" whose legal opinion in this matter is credible. Not only does he say that the arrests are against freedom of speech which is "a guaranteed fundamental right", he says that the arrests are criminal according to law too. Quoting the full paragraph here - "" In the letter addressed to Chavan, Justice Katju has written: "It is alleged that she has been arrested for allegedly hurting religious sentiments. To my mind it is absurd to say that protesting against a bandh hurts religious sentiments. Under Article 19(1)(a) of our Constitution, freedom of speech is a guaranteed fundamental right. We are living in a democracy, not a fascist dictatorship. In fact this arrest itself appears to be a criminal act since under sections 341 and 342 it is a crime to wrongfully arrest or wrongfully confine someone who has committed no crime. ""

anuraj 14y ago

This is India, a country where rights exist only on paper. Rights materialize only where people have knowledge and power to defend them. Unfortunately India is a long way from there.