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In a less profit driven world, we might stockpile these in cans and then later throw them away once they spoil, taking over the canning facilities and paying fo

In a less profit driven world, we might stockpile these in cans and then later throw them away once they spoil, taking over the canning facilities and paying for the wages via taxes on things not needed for survival. We don't maximize food security though, we prefer profit, up to and including choosing not to feed people.

xboxnolifes 5mo ago
Farmers are literally subsidized to over-produce for food security.
- hnthrow0287345 5mo ago
  Which of course is not enough due to other expenses: https://www.fb.org/market-intel/farm-bankruptcies-continued-to-climb-in-2025 https://www.fb.org/market-intel/farm-bankruptcies-continued-... https://www.adamsandreese.com/the-ledger/rising-farm-distress-preparing-for-increased-agriculture-bankruptcies-in-2026-2027 https://www.adamsandreese.com/the-ledger/rising-farm-distres... And those farms get bought up and folded into for-profit operations. You simply can't fix this in the current system.
- JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
  > for food security They overproduce for votes. Countries without farmer blocks swinging elections stockpile non-perishables for food security.
  - xboxnolifes 5mo ago
    For both. With or without the voting block, they still serve the purpose of over-producing.
    - JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
      > With or without the voting block, they still serve the purpose of over-producing Overproduction is the method. Food security the aim. If they weren’t a swing voting block, the overproduction loses purpose.
hluska 5mo ago
Uh yeah, this was Del Monte’s business model. The issue is that the company that owns the canning plants (Del Monte) went bankrupt. There is no canning capacity available to do this. How did you possibly miss the point by this far? It’s like trying to drive to Los Angeles and ending up on Pluto.
- hnthrow0287345 5mo ago
  The government would step in and take over operations. This is why we don't need profit-driven companies responsible for food supply. By all means let Del Monte's managers try their hand in some other industry if they couldn't make it work (or not, because they couldn't make it work).
  - tracker1 5mo ago
    Do you really want a world without any fast food or snack foods? I mean, I think we consume way too much as a society, but I'd rather not have the government decide what I'm allowed to eat. Have a conversation with someone who grew up in communist USSR/Russia sometime... It definitely isn't cool. If we had govt controlled food supply, we'd never have the likes of hot sauce (sriracha, pace, etc) and would likely never have seen a lot of options form. For better and far, far worse.
    - hnthrow0287345 5mo ago
      >but I'd rather not have the government decide what I'm allowed to eat. I don't know how it'd get to that if we had even more supply. I'm saying we'd be better off dealing with the problems of overproduction rather than the problems of unprofitable businesses and killing production capacity because it isn't profitable in the short-term. I also never said you couldn't have non/not-for-profit food production, just that they shouldn't be for-profit.
      - tracker1 5mo ago
        It's difficult because a lot of the margins have been pressed out, and capital funding is often done in a way that doesn't allow for a market to shrink and respond to over-production or a reduction in demand. If the government was responsible for running the farms, we would not have near the variety we have today... and for that matter, it would be much closer to soviet communism. I'm absolutely opposed to that. And how do you know we would be better off? What would you do with oversupply? We had mountains full of cheese for decades from oversupply.. and that's a single product. Canned fruit doesn't even last that long before breaking down. The alternative is waste year after year, vs. cutting back and planting something else, which is what is happening... part of the market was allowed to fail (Del Monte) and part is being bailed out (farms) in defense of being able to have ongoing production, even if the product is different. That seems far better than having mountains full of rotten peaches in cans.
tracker1 5mo ago
That's how we got mountain bunkers filled with cheese over the course of decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvLMH0wb_0k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvLMH0wb_0k
- hnthrow0287345 5mo ago
  Of course if they did then what's about to happen with the peach trees, you'd end up killing the dairy cows, which I'm guessing the people in this thread would have a problem with.
- hamdingers 5mo ago
  And how we ended up feeding roughly a third of US-grown corn to cars.

xboxnolifes 5mo ago

Farmers are literally subsidized to over-produce for food security.

hnthrow0287345 5mo ago
Which of course is not enough due to other expenses: https://www.fb.org/market-intel/farm-bankruptcies-continued-to-climb-in-2025 https://www.fb.org/market-intel/farm-bankruptcies-continued-... https://www.adamsandreese.com/the-ledger/rising-farm-distress-preparing-for-increased-agriculture-bankruptcies-in-2026-2027 https://www.adamsandreese.com/the-ledger/rising-farm-distres... And those farms get bought up and folded into for-profit operations. You simply can't fix this in the current system.
JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
> for food security They overproduce for votes. Countries without farmer blocks swinging elections stockpile non-perishables for food security.
- xboxnolifes 5mo ago
  For both. With or without the voting block, they still serve the purpose of over-producing.
  - JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
    > With or without the voting block, they still serve the purpose of over-producing Overproduction is the method. Food security the aim. If they weren’t a swing voting block, the overproduction loses purpose.

hluska 5mo ago

Uh yeah, this was Del Monte’s business model. The issue is that the company that owns the canning plants (Del Monte) went bankrupt. There is no canning capacity available to do this. How did you possibly miss the point by this far? It’s like trying to drive to Los Angeles and ending up on Pluto.

hnthrow0287345 5mo ago
The government would step in and take over operations. This is why we don't need profit-driven companies responsible for food supply. By all means let Del Monte's managers try their hand in some other industry if they couldn't make it work (or not, because they couldn't make it work).
- tracker1 5mo ago
  Do you really want a world without any fast food or snack foods? I mean, I think we consume way too much as a society, but I'd rather not have the government decide what I'm allowed to eat. Have a conversation with someone who grew up in communist USSR/Russia sometime... It definitely isn't cool. If we had govt controlled food supply, we'd never have the likes of hot sauce (sriracha, pace, etc) and would likely never have seen a lot of options form. For better and far, far worse.
  - hnthrow0287345 5mo ago
    >but I'd rather not have the government decide what I'm allowed to eat. I don't know how it'd get to that if we had even more supply. I'm saying we'd be better off dealing with the problems of overproduction rather than the problems of unprofitable businesses and killing production capacity because it isn't profitable in the short-term. I also never said you couldn't have non/not-for-profit food production, just that they shouldn't be for-profit.
    - tracker1 5mo ago
      It's difficult because a lot of the margins have been pressed out, and capital funding is often done in a way that doesn't allow for a market to shrink and respond to over-production or a reduction in demand. If the government was responsible for running the farms, we would not have near the variety we have today... and for that matter, it would be much closer to soviet communism. I'm absolutely opposed to that. And how do you know we would be better off? What would you do with oversupply? We had mountains full of cheese for decades from oversupply.. and that's a single product. Canned fruit doesn't even last that long before breaking down. The alternative is waste year after year, vs. cutting back and planting something else, which is what is happening... part of the market was allowed to fail (Del Monte) and part is being bailed out (farms) in defense of being able to have ongoing production, even if the product is different. That seems far better than having mountains full of rotten peaches in cans.

tracker1 5mo ago

That's how we got mountain bunkers filled with cheese over the course of decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvLMH0wb_0k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvLMH0wb_0k

hnthrow0287345 5mo ago
Of course if they did then what's about to happen with the peach trees, you'd end up killing the dairy cows, which I'm guessing the people in this thread would have a problem with.
hamdingers 5mo ago
And how we ended up feeding roughly a third of US-grown corn to cars.