7 ms·

The brave souls who bought a used, 340k-mile rental camper van

71 points by PaulHoule 6mo ago

mschuster91 6mo ago
That paintjob reminds me somewhat of the GTA San Andreas campervan of The Truth.
mcphage 6mo ago
Thanks for sharing that, that was just a nice story.
- RickJWagner 6mo ago
  I agree. Today has some very good stories on Hacker News, best day I can remember.
chiph 6mo ago
"Runs and Drives" for $4300 is a bargain. All the other features were a bonus.
- PaulHoule 6mo ago
  For a while my car buying strat was to buy a new Asian car and run it for 130,000 or more miles. In the pandemic though we had to get my son a car in a hurry so he could drive to work and new and gently used cars were hard to find so we discovered you can always get a pretty cool old car for that kind of money with the expectation that pretty soon you're going to spend about the purchase price in repairs; in our case it was just fine because once he had the job he had the money to pay for repairs himself and it is still a lot less than the payments on a new car.
- SoftTalker 6mo ago
  $4K is about my limit for a car. You can do a lot better than "runs and drives" at that price point, but there's always a chance of getting a dud. Documented maintenance history really helps, but most people don't keep it.
MrBuddyCasino 6mo ago
I can’t find details about their bankruptcy except some platitudes. How does such a business suddenly go broke?
- delichon 6mo ago
  "How did you go bankrupt?" Bill asked. "Two ways," Mike said. "Gradually, then suddenly." -- Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises
chasd00 6mo ago
My kids call those “free candy vans” hah.
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
jcgrillo 6mo ago
Fleet vehicles are generally not a terrible bet, they've at least been somewhat maintained.
bloomingeek 6mo ago
Really cool story! It's always been my premise that good maintenance means longevity on vehicles. I keep our vehicles with the idea of "driving the wheels off of them", but always end up giving them to my kids after wanting an upgrade vehicle with some modern tech. (One of them has almost 200K miles on it.) As for a Honda Element, I've always wanted one, but my wife thinks they're ugly. ;)
- lotsofpulp 6mo ago
  > It's always been my premise that good maintenance means longevity on vehicles. There are myriad examples of manufacturing defects and cost optimizations that lead to early failures regardless of maintenance. I would not trust a well maintained Stellantis vehicle to make it to 200k miles regardless of how well it was maintained.
  - linksnapzz 6mo ago
    I'll bet that a Ram 2500 w/ the 392 engine could, if maintaine, (in a climate where there's no road salt...) reach 200K w/ only regular maintenance. Not much else that they make.
    - hedora 6mo ago
      Unless they use a completely different transmission platform than the 1500 or Jeeps, I wouldn't bet on it. The transmission has an integrated computer that controls shifting, cooling, etc. The lines between that and the speedometer are flaky, so every once in a while it'll decide to not cool itself, get stuck in 2nd/3rd, etc, etc. I have an additional 15 years of cool down I consider another Stellantis product. By then, they won't be selling ICE, for one thing. For another, the current engineers will be long gone.
      - linksnapzz 6mo ago
        It used to be that the six-speed Aisin HD transmission was an option, which wasn't a Stellantis product. Also, I'd immediately disable the AFM stuff, which has always been a threat to top-end lubrication. My grandpa used to say that every American ought to purchase a Chrysler product once every ten years (if only to get the urge to do so out of their system) and sell it immediately afterwards. He was a Dodge fan in the same way that some people are Cubs fans; i.e. inured to disappointment.
Gravityloss 6mo ago
Interesting that they replaced the central panel with something more traditional looking?
Helmut10001 6mo ago
Our VW T4 from 2002 has 300k km on it. I consider this half it's total possible mileage, if not less. I wish they would still build reliable cars like these today.
- mschuster91 6mo ago
  Damn I had no idea the T4 got produced that long. I drove a 1996 T4 with the good old Vorkammerdiesel many years ago - practically a tank.
- BigTTYGothGF 6mo ago
  > I wish they would still build reliable cars like these today. How do you know they don't?
  - Tanoc 6mo ago
    Look at Nissan. Their CVTs are known to have an effective life of about 60,000 miles. Anything beyond that is betting against the reaper. Because of the way the transmission is mated to the engine (in order to reduce the overall size) most times the cost to replace it costs more than the car is worth. Many times insurance will total a seven or eight year old Rogue or Altima if the CVT needs replaced. This is because Nissans depreciate in value so quickly, and it's somewhat of an ouroboros in that they depreciate in value so quickly because of the short lifetimes of the CVTs. Meanwhile Mitsubishi has been suffering issues with their AWD systems failing, and because the Eclipse Cross and Outlander Sport are sold primarily as AWD that affects a majority of their sales. Ford's had the issue with the dual-clutch automatics failing on the Focus, Fiesta, and Escape. Dodge has... Well, really only the Durango currently that's reliable. The Charger PHEV is having all sorts off issues, from the battery packs overheating to random software glitches to the engine refusing to disengage from the electric portion of the drivetrain. The Hornet's been getting the shit kicked out of it by Kelley Blue Book and Consumer Reports because the transmissions are ripping themselves apart and the BCMs are bricking themselves. Jeep's had issues with the Cherokee, Wrangler, Gladiator, and Compass because of the Pentastar engine nuking itself before 100,000 miles either by losing too much oil or the water jackets cracking. Meanwhile the differentials in the Wrangler and Gladiator have had problems that Stellantis denies. Back before about... I'd say 2016? 2017? You had a lot less issues with new cars. Most issues were simple recalls like transmissions slipping out of gear or premature wear on the cams, not something that would entirely junk the car.
cucumber3732842 6mo ago
A van that's seen a lot of highway miles and was owned by a large fleet is almost always a good bet. It's shuttle services who are skipping everything they can because "lol we're depreciating this over 3yr and then trading in" are who you gotta be worried about. This is basically a story about who people cut from a filter bubble that circle jerk about Sprinters and Camrys are shocked to find that the most popular fleet van of the 1980s-2010 does in fact live up to it's value prop of delivering boring reliable service to business to which it is just a cost center to be minimized.
dmoose 6mo ago
I picked up one as well and even after flying to pick it up and fuel for driving 700 miles back I'm in it less than $4K. My theory was fleet maintenance to some extent mitigated the 330K miles and even if it takes a crate engine to keep it running I probably still get enough value to be worth it. Turns out I got 19 mpg on the drive back and the only thing I've found wrong with it so far is dead battery in a tps. Wrap is goofy looking but at least I'm never going to lose it in a parking lot.
- SoftTalker 6mo ago
  Wouldn't even need a crate engine if it came to needing a replacement, a good used engine for that would be easy to find.
- ryukoposting 6mo ago
  When properly cared for, and owned outside of the rust belt, these vans will go a million miles. Hell, I've seen a Chevy Express van in the rust belt with over 500k (that's 800k if you're French). They're so simplistic, and parts are so easy to find, that frame rot is really the only thing that can permanently kill one. It's really a shame that the Express is the last van of this breed that's still hanging around. The stubby nose makes spark plugs a harrowing experience, but everything else is easy. They were built to be used indefinitely.
retired 6mo ago
> random Dutch families who drove it across the US I’m wondering how much that van has contributed to the population increase of The Netherlands.
- ragebol 6mo ago
  > families IDK about you, but traveling with a family would be an effective anti-conception for me (also Dutch) And effective for my folks as well when they took my siblings to tour the west coast in an RV when we were teens, AFAICT. Traveling with just my SO OTOH...
  - retired 6mo ago
    I can tell you from visiting French campsites that Dutch parents have no problem copulating with their children nearby. Or just send them to the pool or the kids club.
    - ragebol 6mo ago
      But not while all inside a van right? Plz...
      - retired 6mo ago
        Haha no! In separate tents. But even a De Waard doesn’t mute all sounds.
- ParanoidShroom 6mo ago
  Having rented one but being Belgian.... Yes
dwd 6mo ago
Back in `84 on a family holiday around Europe my parents purchased what was an ex-PostNL VW Combi converted into a camper. It had done a lot of miles. We drove it right around Europe with only one breakdown in a small town in Germany that fortunately had a VW mechanic. But possibly the most memorable time spent in the van was when it came time to sell it. Next to where the London Eye is now was what was known as "the strip" with a lineup of campers being sold on to newly arrived tourists. I spent two weeks living in the van next to the Thames, a short walk to Waterloo Station and a lot of time just wandering the streets of London alone (as a 14yo).
ParanoidShroom 6mo ago
Oh man, i rented one of those! I fell in love with the west coast national parks. A month of roadtripping to all those parks. Great memories, sad to see the. Not available anymore. They are speed limited when you floor it in Nevada tho :)
arndt 6mo ago
Funny, I just camped next to one on the Oregon coast. Was wondering about the out-of-place paint job.
burnt-resistor 6mo ago
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunther_Holtorf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunther_Holtorf

71 points by PaulHoule 6mo ago

mschuster91 6mo ago

That paintjob reminds me somewhat of the GTA San Andreas campervan of The Truth.

mcphage 6mo ago

Thanks for sharing that, that was just a nice story.

RickJWagner 6mo ago
I agree. Today has some very good stories on Hacker News, best day I can remember.

chiph 6mo ago

"Runs and Drives" for $4300 is a bargain. All the other features were a bonus.

PaulHoule 6mo ago
For a while my car buying strat was to buy a new Asian car and run it for 130,000 or more miles. In the pandemic though we had to get my son a car in a hurry so he could drive to work and new and gently used cars were hard to find so we discovered you can always get a pretty cool old car for that kind of money with the expectation that pretty soon you're going to spend about the purchase price in repairs; in our case it was just fine because once he had the job he had the money to pay for repairs himself and it is still a lot less than the payments on a new car.
SoftTalker 6mo ago
$4K is about my limit for a car. You can do a lot better than "runs and drives" at that price point, but there's always a chance of getting a dud. Documented maintenance history really helps, but most people don't keep it.

MrBuddyCasino 6mo ago

I can’t find details about their bankruptcy except some platitudes. How does such a business suddenly go broke?

delichon 6mo ago
"How did you go bankrupt?" Bill asked. "Two ways," Mike said. "Gradually, then suddenly." -- Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises

chasd00 6mo ago

My kids call those “free candy vans” hah.

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]

jcgrillo 6mo ago

Fleet vehicles are generally not a terrible bet, they've at least been somewhat maintained.

bloomingeek 6mo ago

Really cool story! It's always been my premise that good maintenance means longevity on vehicles. I keep our vehicles with the idea of "driving the wheels off of them", but always end up giving them to my kids after wanting an upgrade vehicle with some modern tech. (One of them has almost 200K miles on it.) As for a Honda Element, I've always wanted one, but my wife thinks they're ugly. ;)

lotsofpulp 6mo ago
> It's always been my premise that good maintenance means longevity on vehicles. There are myriad examples of manufacturing defects and cost optimizations that lead to early failures regardless of maintenance. I would not trust a well maintained Stellantis vehicle to make it to 200k miles regardless of how well it was maintained.
- linksnapzz 6mo ago
  I'll bet that a Ram 2500 w/ the 392 engine could, if maintaine, (in a climate where there's no road salt...) reach 200K w/ only regular maintenance. Not much else that they make.
  - hedora 6mo ago
    Unless they use a completely different transmission platform than the 1500 or Jeeps, I wouldn't bet on it. The transmission has an integrated computer that controls shifting, cooling, etc. The lines between that and the speedometer are flaky, so every once in a while it'll decide to not cool itself, get stuck in 2nd/3rd, etc, etc. I have an additional 15 years of cool down I consider another Stellantis product. By then, they won't be selling ICE, for one thing. For another, the current engineers will be long gone.
    - linksnapzz 6mo ago
      It used to be that the six-speed Aisin HD transmission was an option, which wasn't a Stellantis product. Also, I'd immediately disable the AFM stuff, which has always been a threat to top-end lubrication. My grandpa used to say that every American ought to purchase a Chrysler product once every ten years (if only to get the urge to do so out of their system) and sell it immediately afterwards. He was a Dodge fan in the same way that some people are Cubs fans; i.e. inured to disappointment.

Gravityloss 6mo ago

Interesting that they replaced the central panel with something more traditional looking?

Helmut10001 6mo ago

Our VW T4 from 2002 has 300k km on it. I consider this half it's total possible mileage, if not less. I wish they would still build reliable cars like these today.

mschuster91 6mo ago
Damn I had no idea the T4 got produced that long. I drove a 1996 T4 with the good old Vorkammerdiesel many years ago - practically a tank.
BigTTYGothGF 6mo ago
> I wish they would still build reliable cars like these today. How do you know they don't?
- Tanoc 6mo ago
  Look at Nissan. Their CVTs are known to have an effective life of about 60,000 miles. Anything beyond that is betting against the reaper. Because of the way the transmission is mated to the engine (in order to reduce the overall size) most times the cost to replace it costs more than the car is worth. Many times insurance will total a seven or eight year old Rogue or Altima if the CVT needs replaced. This is because Nissans depreciate in value so quickly, and it's somewhat of an ouroboros in that they depreciate in value so quickly because of the short lifetimes of the CVTs. Meanwhile Mitsubishi has been suffering issues with their AWD systems failing, and because the Eclipse Cross and Outlander Sport are sold primarily as AWD that affects a majority of their sales. Ford's had the issue with the dual-clutch automatics failing on the Focus, Fiesta, and Escape. Dodge has... Well, really only the Durango currently that's reliable. The Charger PHEV is having all sorts off issues, from the battery packs overheating to random software glitches to the engine refusing to disengage from the electric portion of the drivetrain. The Hornet's been getting the shit kicked out of it by Kelley Blue Book and Consumer Reports because the transmissions are ripping themselves apart and the BCMs are bricking themselves. Jeep's had issues with the Cherokee, Wrangler, Gladiator, and Compass because of the Pentastar engine nuking itself before 100,000 miles either by losing too much oil or the water jackets cracking. Meanwhile the differentials in the Wrangler and Gladiator have had problems that Stellantis denies. Back before about... I'd say 2016? 2017? You had a lot less issues with new cars. Most issues were simple recalls like transmissions slipping out of gear or premature wear on the cams, not something that would entirely junk the car.

cucumber3732842 6mo ago

A van that's seen a lot of highway miles and was owned by a large fleet is almost always a good bet. It's shuttle services who are skipping everything they can because "lol we're depreciating this over 3yr and then trading in" are who you gotta be worried about. This is basically a story about who people cut from a filter bubble that circle jerk about Sprinters and Camrys are shocked to find that the most popular fleet van of the 1980s-2010 does in fact live up to it's value prop of delivering boring reliable service to business to which it is just a cost center to be minimized.

dmoose 6mo ago

I picked up one as well and even after flying to pick it up and fuel for driving 700 miles back I'm in it less than $4K. My theory was fleet maintenance to some extent mitigated the 330K miles and even if it takes a crate engine to keep it running I probably still get enough value to be worth it. Turns out I got 19 mpg on the drive back and the only thing I've found wrong with it so far is dead battery in a tps. Wrap is goofy looking but at least I'm never going to lose it in a parking lot.

SoftTalker 6mo ago
Wouldn't even need a crate engine if it came to needing a replacement, a good used engine for that would be easy to find.
ryukoposting 6mo ago
When properly cared for, and owned outside of the rust belt, these vans will go a million miles. Hell, I've seen a Chevy Express van in the rust belt with over 500k (that's 800k if you're French). They're so simplistic, and parts are so easy to find, that frame rot is really the only thing that can permanently kill one. It's really a shame that the Express is the last van of this breed that's still hanging around. The stubby nose makes spark plugs a harrowing experience, but everything else is easy. They were built to be used indefinitely.

retired 6mo ago

> random Dutch families who drove it across the US I’m wondering how much that van has contributed to the population increase of The Netherlands.

ragebol 6mo ago
> families IDK about you, but traveling with a family would be an effective anti-conception for me (also Dutch) And effective for my folks as well when they took my siblings to tour the west coast in an RV when we were teens, AFAICT. Traveling with just my SO OTOH...
- retired 6mo ago
  I can tell you from visiting French campsites that Dutch parents have no problem copulating with their children nearby. Or just send them to the pool or the kids club.
  - ragebol 6mo ago
    But not while all inside a van right? Plz...
    - retired 6mo ago
      Haha no! In separate tents. But even a De Waard doesn’t mute all sounds.
ParanoidShroom 6mo ago
Having rented one but being Belgian.... Yes

dwd 6mo ago

Back in `84 on a family holiday around Europe my parents purchased what was an ex-PostNL VW Combi converted into a camper. It had done a lot of miles. We drove it right around Europe with only one breakdown in a small town in Germany that fortunately had a VW mechanic. But possibly the most memorable time spent in the van was when it came time to sell it. Next to where the London Eye is now was what was known as "the strip" with a lineup of campers being sold on to newly arrived tourists. I spent two weeks living in the van next to the Thames, a short walk to Waterloo Station and a lot of time just wandering the streets of London alone (as a 14yo).

ParanoidShroom 6mo ago

Oh man, i rented one of those! I fell in love with the west coast national parks. A month of roadtripping to all those parks. Great memories, sad to see the. Not available anymore. They are speed limited when you floor it in Nevada tho :)

arndt 6mo ago

Funny, I just camped next to one on the Oregon coast. Was wondering about the out-of-place paint job.

burnt-resistor 6mo ago

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunther_Holtorf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunther_Holtorf