5 ms·

Ignore the "EV" part. B = Battery H = Hybrid PH = Plug-in hybrid (Same as a hybrid but you can charge up the hybrid battery at home)

rsynnott 6mo ago
> Same as a hybrid but you can charge up the hybrid battery at home And, in practice, the battery tends to be much, much bigger. Some PHEVs are basically mediocre-range electric cars which happen to have a petrol generator.
- moepstar 6mo ago
  Which ones? A colleague drives a BMW 3something hybrid and as far as i know has a 14kWh battery.. Thats good for about a 100km, but i very much wouldn't consider that a "fully" electric car by any means (edit: did you edit your post? couldve sworn you said "fully electric" instead of "mediocre range"?)... Also, what most people don't realize: if you're only (or mostly) driving it electric, you're putting many more cycles onto that tiny battery. ...which usually costs as much as a "regular" EV battery, x times the size. https://evclinic.eu/2024/09/05/bmw-hybrid-repeated-battery-failure/ https://evclinic.eu/2024/09/05/bmw-hybrid-repeated-battery-f... for example...
  - slaw 6mo ago
    2026 Denza D9 has 66.48 kWh plug-in hybrid battery pack https://carnewschina.com/2026/05/01/byd-deploys-new-heyuan-hybrid-platform-enabling-larger-batteries-in-denza-d9-mpv/ https://carnewschina.com/2026/05/01/byd-deploys-new-heyuan-h...
  - alistairSH 6mo ago
    The latest Honda Civic Hybrid (and its Prelude cousin). The ICE is a generator under most use cases - it's decoupled from the drivetrain most of the time. That said, the battery capacity isn't great - you aren't going to complete many trips out of your immediate neighborhood on EV power alone.
    - jeffbee 6mo ago
      That's because hybrids aren't designed to do so. The battery is small in terms of both energy and power. Sometimes, if the car is initially pointed the right way, you could complete a very short downhill trip at low speeds without the engine starting. But hybrids are designed to run the engine often. The batteries are sized to capture approximately the kinetic energy of the moving vehicle when stopping, and discharge the same energy when starting to move again, and that's it. It's a great system, they all get 45+ MPG.
- numpad0 6mo ago
  I wouldn't be sure if that's often the case, most PHEVs are just minor upgrades over existing hybrids. The electric motors on most hybrids, except the Nissan system, tend to only cover zero to city speeds. They need the gas engine connected to handle highway and ramp situations.
  - jeffbee 6mo ago
    This is not true. Popular PHEVs like the Prius Prime can go any speed you like on batteries.
    - loudmax 6mo ago
      Yes, my Prius Prime handles highway speeds perfectly fine on battery. In fact, the acceleration is great in pure EV mode. It just doesn't have much range: only about 25 miles on my 2018 model. Newer models advertise up to 44 miles on EV.
      - jeffbee 6mo ago
        Sure, that's the obvious downside of them. But in the role where they spend ~10h slowly charging overnight from a standard plug, about 25-45 miles is all you'd expect to enjoy in a steady state. I had a PHEV Honda and I put 20 gallons of fuel in it over 6 years. The system works in the niche for which it was designed.
    - dalyons 6mo ago
      It is true. most are much worse at being EVs than the toyota prime models. Toyotas were the top of the euro data on real world EV-only use. Every other manufacturer ranges from worse to hilariously worse. Toyotas are not over half of sales, so therefore "most" applies.
      - jeffbee 6mo ago
        You're making this outlandish claim so it is on you to name any currently or recently-marketed PHEV that can't reach highway speeds in EV mode, and to demonstrate that this constitutes "most" of the market or installed base.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- Sohcahtoa82 6mo ago
  In theory, a PHEV is the perfect middle ground for someone that wants to drive electric but has major range anxiety about road trips. Something with a 60 mile electric range will likely satisfy all of their day-to-day driving. The generator means they don't have to charge though, so they can still take road trips without worrying about electric range. In practice though, they're somewhat impractical. You still need an entire ICE drivetrain AND a moderately sized battery and electric motor, driving the price up.
  - mschild 6mo ago
    Not only somewhat impractical. Most people don't end up charging their battery because it still has an ICE so why bother? So now they have the worst of both worlds. Complex ICE machinery that needs regular service and heavy battery that doesn't end up being used.
    - londons_explore 6mo ago
      Still gives decent efficiency improvements. You can always run the ICE at most efficient RPM. Never need to idle it, etc. You can also have a much smaller engine for a much bigger car, since you only need to cover average not peak power usage. You also in most designs eliminate the gearbox.
      - mrob 6mo ago
        Only true for a plug-in hybrid with a series drivechain (a.k.a. "extended range electric vehicle"). The more common type has two parallel drivechains linked with clutches, so you still have all the drawbacks of a conventional internal combustion engine drivechain when you're using it.
        appointment 6mo ago
        This is something people say, but in practice the Toyota Prius is still a very reliable car.
        6mo ago
- WarmWash 6mo ago
  ...and apparently most owners never plug them in, so people just burn expensive fuel to charge their battery, while offering little or no savings over a hybrid or just the gas version.
- dalyons 6mo ago
  Its time to call a spade a spade - the bulk of the PHEV category sold to date (with a few exceptions like toyota) has been an emissions scam, designed to skirt EU fleet emission laws. In practice, most are mediocre range, low-speed only evs that effectively no one bothers to charge regularly because its impractical and annoying. The manufactures claim 80% reductions in emissions, and use those credits to allow them to sell more gas cars in the EU market. But real world emission reduction is 20%. They know this, they've known for years. Its a scam. https://electrek.co/2026/02/19/biggest-study-yet-shows-plug-in-hybrids-use-over-300-more-fuel-than-claimed/ https://electrek.co/2026/02/19/biggest-study-yet-shows-plug-... Some newer toyotas, newer BMWs and the coming EREVs will actually be able to be electric cars most of the time, and might live up closer to the claims. Doesnt change the fact the category has been mostly fraud until now.
  - appointment 6mo ago
    To be fair, running electric only at slow speeds is still good, because it's slow, stop-and-go driving that benefits the most from electric.
    - dalyons 6mo ago
      except, as the data shows, thats not enough to make much emissions difference.
      - bluGill 6mo ago
        I find that strange just looking at my current PHEV the engine now is at 75,000 miles or what my previous one was at only 30,000 miles. Most trips we barely use the intent if we use it at all, but every once in a while we do go on the long road trips. Plus, they are great for Americans who normally don't do those long trips, but they don't get rained to anxiety or any other issues with charging.
        dalyons 6mo ago
        1. you are you and your data and your use. I believe you, but thats not useful compared to the real world data from "981,035 vehicles across Europe". 2. i suspect but i have no way to prove... the PHEVs sold in america tended to be way better EVs - there's no similar total fleet emissions laws so no incentive to subsidize shitty/fraudulent PHEVs in the US.
iso1631 6mo ago
> PH = Plug-in hybrid (Same as a hybrid but you can charge up the hybrid battery at home) Surely that's the "same as a battery but you can use petrol on long journeys" The only energy input for a "hybrid" is from petrol. It's slightly more efficient. A Toyota Yaris 1.5 hubrid gets about 65mpg rather than the 45mpg on a Skoda Kamiq https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/skoda/kamiq-2023 https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/skoda/kamiq-2023 https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/toyota/yaris-cross-2021 https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/toyota/yaris-cross-2021
- bluGill 6mo ago
  Depends on how you use it. Some never plug in. Some always do. I save a ton of money without worrying about range since there is always gas when I make a roadtrip
- swiftcoder 6mo ago
  > Surely that's the "same as a battery but you can use petrol on long journeys" They put tiny batteries in a lot of plug-in hybrids. Unless you live very close to work, you’ll struggle to use it as primarily an EV
  - vkou 6mo ago
    Commuter[1] PHEVs start at 30 miles EV range. Which is ~enough to cover the vast majority of commutes, and the majority of US commutes. Keep in mind that even if 20% of your commute is done on petrol, the other 80% isn't. --- [1] Yes, there are PHEVs with shorter ranges, but those tend to be weird luxury models that for some compliance reason have a battery strapped to them.
    - dalyons 6mo ago
      the short ranges make them impractical and annoying to charge all the time, so people just dont in the real world https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-hybrids-pollute-almost-as-much-as-petrol-cars-report-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-...
Johnny555 6mo ago
> PH = Plug-in hybrid (Same as a hybrid but you can charge up the hybrid battery at home) You can, but in practice most people don't. And I can understand why -- it's inconvenient to have to plug in after every short trip, and the short electric range of most PHEV's means you do have to plug in after every short trip. I plug in my EV around once a week, and it's more convenient than going to the gas station, but I'm not sure I'd want to have to plug it in every time I come home from even a short trip to the supermarket.
- wffurr 6mo ago
  I plug in my EV almost every time I get home. The charger is hanging right next to my driver door in my driveway.
- bot403 6mo ago
  I own an EV. If I had a phev I'd sure love to plug it in rather than pay more for gas and have to go to the station.
- bluGill 6mo ago
  That is why I setup our PHEV plug to be right next to the door, we park, grab the plug and put it in. That is at most 2 extra steps.
traderj0e 6mo ago
Seems like PHEV can mean it only goes 15-30mi on a charge. Realistically how many people are actually plugging those in?
- londons_explore 6mo ago
  They vary widely. Some have 1 mile (and the plug is therefore fairly pointless and usually just to qualify for some subsidy), whilst others do 200 miles and are effectively full EV's with a petrol generator to travel further.
  - traderj0e 6mo ago
    Yeah 1-5mi EV seems like pure scam marketing that should be illegal
    - londons_explore 6mo ago
      It still allows regen braking down a hill or at traffic lights in town, so you get a decent efficiency gain. It also gives you a bit more horsepower when overtaking (depending on design). Or an hour of running the AC without belching smoke. Considering the battery and motors for these tiny EV's is only 100 lbs or so, it is probably still worth having.
      - traderj0e 6mo ago
        Yeah I'm not saying it's useless, it just shouldn't be marketed as an EV when you basically need to burn gas to drive it.
- i_dursun 6mo ago
  Mine does about 40 miles during summer and 23 miles during winter. Given that my trips are within 25-35 miles range, I charge it daily. It’s at 9.5k miles and I filled up the tank about 7-8 times in 2 years. Rest was all electric.
  - 6mo ago
xnx 6mo ago
Don't forget EREV.

rsynnott 6mo ago

> Same as a hybrid but you can charge up the hybrid battery at home And, in practice, the battery tends to be much, much bigger. Some PHEVs are basically mediocre-range electric cars which happen to have a petrol generator.

moepstar 6mo ago
Which ones? A colleague drives a BMW 3something hybrid and as far as i know has a 14kWh battery.. Thats good for about a 100km, but i very much wouldn't consider that a "fully" electric car by any means (edit: did you edit your post? couldve sworn you said "fully electric" instead of "mediocre range"?)... Also, what most people don't realize: if you're only (or mostly) driving it electric, you're putting many more cycles onto that tiny battery. ...which usually costs as much as a "regular" EV battery, x times the size. https://evclinic.eu/2024/09/05/bmw-hybrid-repeated-battery-failure/ https://evclinic.eu/2024/09/05/bmw-hybrid-repeated-battery-f... for example...
- slaw 6mo ago
  2026 Denza D9 has 66.48 kWh plug-in hybrid battery pack https://carnewschina.com/2026/05/01/byd-deploys-new-heyuan-hybrid-platform-enabling-larger-batteries-in-denza-d9-mpv/ https://carnewschina.com/2026/05/01/byd-deploys-new-heyuan-h...
- alistairSH 6mo ago
  The latest Honda Civic Hybrid (and its Prelude cousin). The ICE is a generator under most use cases - it's decoupled from the drivetrain most of the time. That said, the battery capacity isn't great - you aren't going to complete many trips out of your immediate neighborhood on EV power alone.
  - jeffbee 6mo ago
    That's because hybrids aren't designed to do so. The battery is small in terms of both energy and power. Sometimes, if the car is initially pointed the right way, you could complete a very short downhill trip at low speeds without the engine starting. But hybrids are designed to run the engine often. The batteries are sized to capture approximately the kinetic energy of the moving vehicle when stopping, and discharge the same energy when starting to move again, and that's it. It's a great system, they all get 45+ MPG.
numpad0 6mo ago
I wouldn't be sure if that's often the case, most PHEVs are just minor upgrades over existing hybrids. The electric motors on most hybrids, except the Nissan system, tend to only cover zero to city speeds. They need the gas engine connected to handle highway and ramp situations.
- jeffbee 6mo ago
  This is not true. Popular PHEVs like the Prius Prime can go any speed you like on batteries.
  - loudmax 6mo ago
    Yes, my Prius Prime handles highway speeds perfectly fine on battery. In fact, the acceleration is great in pure EV mode. It just doesn't have much range: only about 25 miles on my 2018 model. Newer models advertise up to 44 miles on EV.
    - jeffbee 6mo ago
      Sure, that's the obvious downside of them. But in the role where they spend ~10h slowly charging overnight from a standard plug, about 25-45 miles is all you'd expect to enjoy in a steady state. I had a PHEV Honda and I put 20 gallons of fuel in it over 6 years. The system works in the niche for which it was designed.
  - dalyons 6mo ago
    It is true. most are much worse at being EVs than the toyota prime models. Toyotas were the top of the euro data on real world EV-only use. Every other manufacturer ranges from worse to hilariously worse. Toyotas are not over half of sales, so therefore "most" applies.
    - jeffbee 6mo ago
      You're making this outlandish claim so it is on you to name any currently or recently-marketed PHEV that can't reach highway speeds in EV mode, and to demonstrate that this constitutes "most" of the market or installed base.
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
Sohcahtoa82 6mo ago
In theory, a PHEV is the perfect middle ground for someone that wants to drive electric but has major range anxiety about road trips. Something with a 60 mile electric range will likely satisfy all of their day-to-day driving. The generator means they don't have to charge though, so they can still take road trips without worrying about electric range. In practice though, they're somewhat impractical. You still need an entire ICE drivetrain AND a moderately sized battery and electric motor, driving the price up.
- mschild 6mo ago
  Not only somewhat impractical. Most people don't end up charging their battery because it still has an ICE so why bother? So now they have the worst of both worlds. Complex ICE machinery that needs regular service and heavy battery that doesn't end up being used.
  - londons_explore 6mo ago
    Still gives decent efficiency improvements. You can always run the ICE at most efficient RPM. Never need to idle it, etc. You can also have a much smaller engine for a much bigger car, since you only need to cover average not peak power usage. You also in most designs eliminate the gearbox.
    - mrob 6mo ago
      Only true for a plug-in hybrid with a series drivechain (a.k.a. "extended range electric vehicle"). The more common type has two parallel drivechains linked with clutches, so you still have all the drawbacks of a conventional internal combustion engine drivechain when you're using it.
      - appointment 6mo ago
        This is something people say, but in practice the Toyota Prius is still a very reliable car.
      - 6mo ago
WarmWash 6mo ago
...and apparently most owners never plug them in, so people just burn expensive fuel to charge their battery, while offering little or no savings over a hybrid or just the gas version.
dalyons 6mo ago
Its time to call a spade a spade - the bulk of the PHEV category sold to date (with a few exceptions like toyota) has been an emissions scam, designed to skirt EU fleet emission laws. In practice, most are mediocre range, low-speed only evs that effectively no one bothers to charge regularly because its impractical and annoying. The manufactures claim 80% reductions in emissions, and use those credits to allow them to sell more gas cars in the EU market. But real world emission reduction is 20%. They know this, they've known for years. Its a scam. https://electrek.co/2026/02/19/biggest-study-yet-shows-plug-in-hybrids-use-over-300-more-fuel-than-claimed/ https://electrek.co/2026/02/19/biggest-study-yet-shows-plug-... Some newer toyotas, newer BMWs and the coming EREVs will actually be able to be electric cars most of the time, and might live up closer to the claims. Doesnt change the fact the category has been mostly fraud until now.
- appointment 6mo ago
  To be fair, running electric only at slow speeds is still good, because it's slow, stop-and-go driving that benefits the most from electric.
  - dalyons 6mo ago
    except, as the data shows, thats not enough to make much emissions difference.
    - bluGill 6mo ago
      I find that strange just looking at my current PHEV the engine now is at 75,000 miles or what my previous one was at only 30,000 miles. Most trips we barely use the intent if we use it at all, but every once in a while we do go on the long road trips. Plus, they are great for Americans who normally don't do those long trips, but they don't get rained to anxiety or any other issues with charging.
      - dalyons 6mo ago
        1. you are you and your data and your use. I believe you, but thats not useful compared to the real world data from "981,035 vehicles across Europe". 2. i suspect but i have no way to prove... the PHEVs sold in america tended to be way better EVs - there's no similar total fleet emissions laws so no incentive to subsidize shitty/fraudulent PHEVs in the US.

iso1631 6mo ago

> PH = Plug-in hybrid (Same as a hybrid but you can charge up the hybrid battery at home) Surely that's the "same as a battery but you can use petrol on long journeys" The only energy input for a "hybrid" is from petrol. It's slightly more efficient. A Toyota Yaris 1.5 hubrid gets about 65mpg rather than the 45mpg on a Skoda Kamiq https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/skoda/kamiq-2023 https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/skoda/kamiq-2023 https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/toyota/yaris-cross-2021 https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/toyota/yaris-cross-2021

bluGill 6mo ago
Depends on how you use it. Some never plug in. Some always do. I save a ton of money without worrying about range since there is always gas when I make a roadtrip
swiftcoder 6mo ago
> Surely that's the "same as a battery but you can use petrol on long journeys" They put tiny batteries in a lot of plug-in hybrids. Unless you live very close to work, you’ll struggle to use it as primarily an EV
- vkou 6mo ago
  Commuter[1] PHEVs start at 30 miles EV range. Which is ~enough to cover the vast majority of commutes, and the majority of US commutes. Keep in mind that even if 20% of your commute is done on petrol, the other 80% isn't. --- [1] Yes, there are PHEVs with shorter ranges, but those tend to be weird luxury models that for some compliance reason have a battery strapped to them.
  - dalyons 6mo ago
    the short ranges make them impractical and annoying to charge all the time, so people just dont in the real world https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-hybrids-pollute-almost-as-much-as-petrol-cars-report-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/16/plug-in-...

Johnny555 6mo ago

> PH = Plug-in hybrid (Same as a hybrid but you can charge up the hybrid battery at home) You can, but in practice most people don't. And I can understand why -- it's inconvenient to have to plug in after every short trip, and the short electric range of most PHEV's means you do have to plug in after every short trip. I plug in my EV around once a week, and it's more convenient than going to the gas station, but I'm not sure I'd want to have to plug it in every time I come home from even a short trip to the supermarket.

wffurr 6mo ago
I plug in my EV almost every time I get home. The charger is hanging right next to my driver door in my driveway.
bot403 6mo ago
I own an EV. If I had a phev I'd sure love to plug it in rather than pay more for gas and have to go to the station.
bluGill 6mo ago
That is why I setup our PHEV plug to be right next to the door, we park, grab the plug and put it in. That is at most 2 extra steps.

traderj0e 6mo ago

Seems like PHEV can mean it only goes 15-30mi on a charge. Realistically how many people are actually plugging those in?

londons_explore 6mo ago
They vary widely. Some have 1 mile (and the plug is therefore fairly pointless and usually just to qualify for some subsidy), whilst others do 200 miles and are effectively full EV's with a petrol generator to travel further.
- traderj0e 6mo ago
  Yeah 1-5mi EV seems like pure scam marketing that should be illegal
  - londons_explore 6mo ago
    It still allows regen braking down a hill or at traffic lights in town, so you get a decent efficiency gain. It also gives you a bit more horsepower when overtaking (depending on design). Or an hour of running the AC without belching smoke. Considering the battery and motors for these tiny EV's is only 100 lbs or so, it is probably still worth having.
    - traderj0e 6mo ago
      Yeah I'm not saying it's useless, it just shouldn't be marketed as an EV when you basically need to burn gas to drive it.
i_dursun 6mo ago
Mine does about 40 miles during summer and 23 miles during winter. Given that my trips are within 25-35 miles range, I charge it daily. It’s at 9.5k miles and I filled up the tank about 7-8 times in 2 years. Rest was all electric.
- 6mo ago

xnx 6mo ago

Don't forget EREV.