4 ms·

Please feel free to suggest a better alternative.

airstrike 6mo ago
FWIW I've recently moved from Firefox to Helium after 10+ years. Yes, I hate that it's also Chromium, but no, there aren't real alternatives.
- ranger_danger 6mo ago
  There are Firefox forks that don't have any AI/advertising/etc. stuff in it. There's also WebKit-based FOSS browsers not based on Chromium nor Gecko. Upstream it's maintained by Apple but the open source webkit browsers should not have any questionable features by default.
nickvec 6mo ago
https://zen-browser.app/ https://zen-browser.app/
- Xmd5a 6mo ago
  it's just arc-browser repackaged, isn't it?
  - Cu3PO42 6mo ago
    While it is certainly inspired by Arc, it doesn't share any code. Arc is proprietary and Chromium-based, Zen is Open Source and Firefox-based.
  - figmert 6mo ago
    It is not. It is Firefox but with an Arc-like workflow.
QuantumNomad_ 6mo ago
https://ladybird.org/ https://ladybird.org/
- n4r9 6mo ago
  Where's the download link?
  - dwedge 6mo ago
    git clone https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird.git https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird.git cd ladybird ./Meta/ladybird.py run If you can, run it, report issues and help them develop it.
    - cicko 6mo ago
      Wonderful. My unpaid bills will be so happy waiting for that to complete.
      - dwedge 6mo ago
        If you're using a computer from any time in the past 20 years or so it's probably capable of multitasking so you can open another browser to pay your bills in the meantime. I'll give myself as an example, between writing that first comment and replying to you, I downloaded and built ladybird on MacOS - it took 25 minutes, most of which was me fixing build dependencies - and here I am replying to you from an alternative browser. Text navigation is a little weird and text boxes are weird, but so far it works. Of course, if building in the background is more effort than you're willing/able to expend, then continue using Chrome or Firefox until others finish the alternative, and then decide if the time required to download, install and get used to a packaged browser is also going to be a hindrance to you paying your bills.
        n4r9 6mo ago
        My laptop runs Windows.
        QuantumNomad_ 6mo ago
        That’s ok, you can install Linux on it free of charge. Open source, baby!
dwedge 6mo ago
Not being able to suggest an alternative for Chrome doesn't imply that Firefox is a good alternative. On GrapheneOS they recommend Vanadium - a more secure Chromium fork - and specifically recommend against Firefox, but that's on mobile.
- _blk 6mo ago
  Graphene user here: Firefox is my standard browser because I like it but mostly because it runs ublock Origin (which again causes me to like it). Vanadium I use for social media sites so I'm not logged in to those on the primary browser.
- Sayrus 6mo ago
  > Gecko doesn't have a WebView implementation (GeckoView is not a WebView implementation), so it has to be used alongside the Chromium-based WebView rather than instead of Chromium, which means having the remote attack surface of two separate browser engines instead of only one. Firefox/Gecko also bypass or cripple a fair bit of the upstream and GrapheneOS hardening work for apps. Worst of all, Firefox does not have internal sandboxing on Android. > The sandbox has been gradually improving on the desktop but it isn't happening for their Android browser yet. Context is definitely interesting to have with your statement (From https://grapheneos.org/usage https://grapheneos.org/usage).
- freehorse 6mo ago
  Firefox _is_ a good alternative to chrome, though, by the arguments OP brought. What OP complained about are even worse in chrome. FF is largely funded by google money? Chrome _is_ google. FF invests in AI features? Google invests even more in AI features and shoves them to you without consent (which ff asked me for after upgrades). Maybe FF is not perfect or great or whatever by one's point of view, but it _is better_ than chrome, at least regarding these arguments.
  - dwedge 6mo ago
    That's fair and true. I guess my issue with Firefox is that Google is obviously Google, and you know what to expect from a company like that. Mozilla is pretending to be an underdog while at the same time they are Google by proxy - aiming to bring more telemetry, more advertising, more AI and doing it with Google's money which they take partly so that Google can say they aren't a monopoly. It's the sneaky ways that Firefox are Google that bother me. Above you said that they recently added a switch to disable AI - only after backlash (though I have to admit that the original blog post said there should be an option to disable it). I also dislike that they are focusing on AI and advertising instead of improving their browser, but that's their decision.
gempir 6mo ago
Helium has all the benefits of Chromium but none of the Google bloat or other crazy AI, Crypto, Gaming or whatever ideas other browsers ship. Just uBlock Origin pre-installed https://helium.computer/ https://helium.computer/
- ranger_danger 6mo ago
  There is also ungoogled-chromium: https://ungoogled-software.github.io https://ungoogled-software.github.io

FWIW I've recently moved from Firefox to Helium after 10+ years. Yes, I hate that it's also Chromium, but no, there aren't real alternatives.

ranger_danger 6mo ago
There are Firefox forks that don't have any AI/advertising/etc. stuff in it. There's also WebKit-based FOSS browsers not based on Chromium nor Gecko. Upstream it's maintained by Apple but the open source webkit browsers should not have any questionable features by default.

nickvec 6mo ago

https://zen-browser.app/ https://zen-browser.app/

Xmd5a 6mo ago
it's just arc-browser repackaged, isn't it?
- Cu3PO42 6mo ago
  While it is certainly inspired by Arc, it doesn't share any code. Arc is proprietary and Chromium-based, Zen is Open Source and Firefox-based.
- figmert 6mo ago
  It is not. It is Firefox but with an Arc-like workflow.

QuantumNomad_ 6mo ago

https://ladybird.org/ https://ladybird.org/

n4r9 6mo ago
Where's the download link?
- dwedge 6mo ago
  git clone https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird.git https://github.com/LadybirdBrowser/ladybird.git cd ladybird ./Meta/ladybird.py run If you can, run it, report issues and help them develop it.
  - cicko 6mo ago
    Wonderful. My unpaid bills will be so happy waiting for that to complete.
    - dwedge 6mo ago
      If you're using a computer from any time in the past 20 years or so it's probably capable of multitasking so you can open another browser to pay your bills in the meantime. I'll give myself as an example, between writing that first comment and replying to you, I downloaded and built ladybird on MacOS - it took 25 minutes, most of which was me fixing build dependencies - and here I am replying to you from an alternative browser. Text navigation is a little weird and text boxes are weird, but so far it works. Of course, if building in the background is more effort than you're willing/able to expend, then continue using Chrome or Firefox until others finish the alternative, and then decide if the time required to download, install and get used to a packaged browser is also going to be a hindrance to you paying your bills.
      - n4r9 6mo ago
        My laptop runs Windows.
        QuantumNomad_ 6mo ago
        That’s ok, you can install Linux on it free of charge. Open source, baby!

dwedge 6mo ago

Not being able to suggest an alternative for Chrome doesn't imply that Firefox is a good alternative. On GrapheneOS they recommend Vanadium - a more secure Chromium fork - and specifically recommend against Firefox, but that's on mobile.

_blk 6mo ago
Graphene user here: Firefox is my standard browser because I like it but mostly because it runs ublock Origin (which again causes me to like it). Vanadium I use for social media sites so I'm not logged in to those on the primary browser.
Sayrus 6mo ago
> Gecko doesn't have a WebView implementation (GeckoView is not a WebView implementation), so it has to be used alongside the Chromium-based WebView rather than instead of Chromium, which means having the remote attack surface of two separate browser engines instead of only one. Firefox/Gecko also bypass or cripple a fair bit of the upstream and GrapheneOS hardening work for apps. Worst of all, Firefox does not have internal sandboxing on Android. > The sandbox has been gradually improving on the desktop but it isn't happening for their Android browser yet. Context is definitely interesting to have with your statement (From https://grapheneos.org/usage https://grapheneos.org/usage).
freehorse 6mo ago
Firefox _is_ a good alternative to chrome, though, by the arguments OP brought. What OP complained about are even worse in chrome. FF is largely funded by google money? Chrome _is_ google. FF invests in AI features? Google invests even more in AI features and shoves them to you without consent (which ff asked me for after upgrades). Maybe FF is not perfect or great or whatever by one's point of view, but it _is better_ than chrome, at least regarding these arguments.
- dwedge 6mo ago
  That's fair and true. I guess my issue with Firefox is that Google is obviously Google, and you know what to expect from a company like that. Mozilla is pretending to be an underdog while at the same time they are Google by proxy - aiming to bring more telemetry, more advertising, more AI and doing it with Google's money which they take partly so that Google can say they aren't a monopoly. It's the sneaky ways that Firefox are Google that bother me. Above you said that they recently added a switch to disable AI - only after backlash (though I have to admit that the original blog post said there should be an option to disable it). I also dislike that they are focusing on AI and advertising instead of improving their browser, but that's their decision.

gempir 6mo ago

Helium has all the benefits of Chromium but none of the Google bloat or other crazy AI, Crypto, Gaming or whatever ideas other browsers ship. Just uBlock Origin pre-installed https://helium.computer/ https://helium.computer/

ranger_danger 6mo ago
There is also ungoogled-chromium: https://ungoogled-software.github.io https://ungoogled-software.github.io