7 ms·

Some parts of the anti-AI movement are becoming so unhinged that now any use of compute is considered an environmental threat. This degrowth mentality needs to

by pu_pe 5mo ago

Some parts of the anti-AI movement are becoming so unhinged that now any use of compute is considered an environmental threat. This degrowth mentality needs to die.

wartywhoa23 5mo ago
Should I reminder you what unlimited growth means and how it ends up in biology? Society/technology is no exception.
- pu_pe 5mo ago
  No need for unlimited growth, just normal sustainable progress like the one that allows you and me to communicate here after centuries of technological progress.
  - PatronBernard 5mo ago
    Ah yes, sustainable progress, like we're doing now?
  - vrganj 5mo ago
    The "normal sustainable progress" has already pushed us to the brink of extinction. AI is rapidly accelerating our resource use, with nothing good to show for it.
    - lxgr 5mo ago
      How exactly are we "on the brink of extinction"? ("We" as in humans; many other species are obviously not as lucky.) We are probably on the brink of very bad consequences for a signification fraction of all humans (up to and including all of them, to some extent), which is a huge problem that needs to be addressed. But what do you gain by incorrectly labeling that as "extinction"? Because you do definitely lose credibility for it, similarly to everybody using hyperbolic language such as "boiling the oceans" etc.
  - pier25 5mo ago
    > No need for unlimited growth Well then at some point you need to stop growing.
  - account42 5mo ago
    The "AI" craze has been very far from normal or sustainable.
farfatched 5mo ago
If it's emissions they worry about, then it's anything emitting. Are they against washing machines too? Or are they just grandfathered in?
- zekrioca 5mo ago
  Don't be disingenuous. Not all energy is created equally.
  - newtonsmethod 5mo ago
    Are we back to magic water and magic soil? Does the energy have some morality attached to it? The emissions per kWh of energy used in providing internet downloads probably is similar to that per kWh of energy used for washing clothes.
    - Aachen 5mo ago
      You're not seriously trying to explain that a kWh is equal to a kWh. Why not cut the crap? Are you trying to say washing clothes is of equal importance to convenience features in a browser, given that we can use each clean kWh only once? I can't tell what you truly mean like this
      - frozenseven 5mo ago
        >a kWh is equal to a kWh Yes, and it's none of your business how other people spend their electricity.
        vrganj 5mo ago
        That's where we disagree. With our current system so reliant on fossil fuels, every kWh generated is a debt to our planet, our society. Until that's resolved, I don't wish that debt incurred for frivolous uses.
        5mo ago
vrganj 5mo ago
Our planet is literally dying. The oceans are boiling [0], marine life is dying [1]. Land close to the water will be land under water soon [2]. The ice caps are melting and setting free all sorts of diseases. [3] Large parts of our planet on fire all the time now, here's one from Australia from this year [4], but I'm sure you've read about wildfires in Australia last year, California every year, Greece last year etc etc. What you're proposing is nothing short of a death cult. It's either degrowth or we all die, sacrificed at the altar of capitalism. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jan/09/profound-impacts-record-ocean-heat-intensifying-climate-disasters https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jan/09/profound... [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-026-03013-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-026-03013-5 [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-025-02299-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-025-02299-w [3] https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/could-microbes-locked-arctic-ice-millennia-unleash-wave-deadly-diseases https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/could-microbes-l... [4] https://phys.org/news/2026-01-australia-declares-state-disaster-bushfires.html https://phys.org/news/2026-01-australia-declares-state-disas...?
- jve 5mo ago
  Have you ever made a decision to NOT download something, turn on your computer, experiment, etc based on your perceived impact on the planet? I mean this should (and is) be tackled at the source: 0/low emission energy generation and not consumer having to think about these decisions. Sustainable data centers using renewables etc. But not that the companies should associate/evaluate/consider bytes downloaded with environmental impact.
  - Aachen 5mo ago
    > this should (and is) be tackled at the source: 0/low emission energy generation and not consumer having to think about these decisions. Until we're at that point though, the 'winners' in this market society (that wield unimaginable amounts of money = resources) such as Google could certainly think about consequences of their choices. And they usually do to some extent, I'm not saying they don't, just that electric supply and demand has two sides to it
  - 5mo ago

by pu_pe 5mo ago

Some parts of the anti-AI movement are becoming so unhinged that now any use of compute is considered an environmental threat. This degrowth mentality needs to die.

wartywhoa23 5mo ago

Should I reminder you what unlimited growth means and how it ends up in biology? Society/technology is no exception.

pu_pe 5mo ago
No need for unlimited growth, just normal sustainable progress like the one that allows you and me to communicate here after centuries of technological progress.
- PatronBernard 5mo ago
  Ah yes, sustainable progress, like we're doing now?
- vrganj 5mo ago
  The "normal sustainable progress" has already pushed us to the brink of extinction. AI is rapidly accelerating our resource use, with nothing good to show for it.
  - lxgr 5mo ago
    How exactly are we "on the brink of extinction"? ("We" as in humans; many other species are obviously not as lucky.) We are probably on the brink of very bad consequences for a signification fraction of all humans (up to and including all of them, to some extent), which is a huge problem that needs to be addressed. But what do you gain by incorrectly labeling that as "extinction"? Because you do definitely lose credibility for it, similarly to everybody using hyperbolic language such as "boiling the oceans" etc.
- pier25 5mo ago
  > No need for unlimited growth Well then at some point you need to stop growing.
- account42 5mo ago
  The "AI" craze has been very far from normal or sustainable.

farfatched 5mo ago

If it's emissions they worry about, then it's anything emitting. Are they against washing machines too? Or are they just grandfathered in?

zekrioca 5mo ago
Don't be disingenuous. Not all energy is created equally.
- newtonsmethod 5mo ago
  Are we back to magic water and magic soil? Does the energy have some morality attached to it? The emissions per kWh of energy used in providing internet downloads probably is similar to that per kWh of energy used for washing clothes.
  - Aachen 5mo ago
    You're not seriously trying to explain that a kWh is equal to a kWh. Why not cut the crap? Are you trying to say washing clothes is of equal importance to convenience features in a browser, given that we can use each clean kWh only once? I can't tell what you truly mean like this
    - frozenseven 5mo ago
      >a kWh is equal to a kWh Yes, and it's none of your business how other people spend their electricity.
      - vrganj 5mo ago
        That's where we disagree. With our current system so reliant on fossil fuels, every kWh generated is a debt to our planet, our society. Until that's resolved, I don't wish that debt incurred for frivolous uses.
        5mo ago

vrganj 5mo ago

Our planet is literally dying. The oceans are boiling [0], marine life is dying [1]. Land close to the water will be land under water soon [2]. The ice caps are melting and setting free all sorts of diseases. [3] Large parts of our planet on fire all the time now, here's one from Australia from this year [4], but I'm sure you've read about wildfires in Australia last year, California every year, Greece last year etc etc. What you're proposing is nothing short of a death cult. It's either degrowth or we all die, sacrificed at the altar of capitalism. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jan/09/profound-impacts-record-ocean-heat-intensifying-climate-disasters https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jan/09/profound... [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-026-03013-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-026-03013-5 [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-025-02299-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-025-02299-w [3] https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/could-microbes-locked-arctic-ice-millennia-unleash-wave-deadly-diseases https://www.unep.org/news-and-stories/story/could-microbes-l... [4] https://phys.org/news/2026-01-australia-declares-state-disaster-bushfires.html https://phys.org/news/2026-01-australia-declares-state-disas...?

jve 5mo ago
Have you ever made a decision to NOT download something, turn on your computer, experiment, etc based on your perceived impact on the planet? I mean this should (and is) be tackled at the source: 0/low emission energy generation and not consumer having to think about these decisions. Sustainable data centers using renewables etc. But not that the companies should associate/evaluate/consider bytes downloaded with environmental impact.
- Aachen 5mo ago
  > this should (and is) be tackled at the source: 0/low emission energy generation and not consumer having to think about these decisions. Until we're at that point though, the 'winners' in this market society (that wield unimaginable amounts of money = resources) such as Google could certainly think about consequences of their choices. And they usually do to some extent, I'm not saying they don't, just that electric supply and demand has two sides to it
- 5mo ago