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This one issue, privacy, has stopped me from buying a new car. It is stopping me from even buying a used one since it is hard to figure out how far back you nee

This one issue, privacy, has stopped me from buying a new car. It is stopping me from even buying a used one since it is hard to figure out how far back you need to go to be rid of these things. Screaming at the wind though isn't helping. We need actual real options. I will buy something that it privacy aware. This is YC. Someone, build the startup that sells that and you have my money.

CalRobert 5mo ago
Slate maybe?
- jmward01 5mo ago
  So far I have seen slate position itself as stripped down, but the thing I haven't seen is that they will be privacy aware. These are two totally different things. I want a simple but functional vehicle which does mean a comfortable vehicle that has reasonable features, but the honest truth is most features I don't want are purely because I want to be privacy aware. I don't want built in maps because I know they will connect and sell my location. I don't want and 'on-star' like feature because I know (for a fact with on-star) they will sell my data to insurance companies (actual harm to me will happen in other words). I don't want anything connectable to an app because I know that means their servers are constantly in control of my vehicle. I have 0 trust so I want a vehicle with one critical feature: no sim. If you can build a car without a sim I will buy it. If it has a sim I will avoid it until I have no actual other choice.
  - roarcher 5mo ago
    I can't speak for other makes/models/years with certainty, but my 2024 Ford Maverick has a "Telemetry Control Unit" that is easily accessible through a hatch by the front passenger seat. Unplugging it disables all communication with Ford servers and I can confirm the app no longer works. The infotainment center also has no built-in maps as it relies on Android Auto/Apple CarPlay for everything except climate control and the AM/FM radio.
  - eks391 5mo ago
    What you described sounds to me like slate. It doesn't have maps or a sim. It doesn't even have a digital dashboard at all[0]. I barely looked it up so I'm no expert, but that's what I'm interpreting from their site. [0] https://www.slate.auto/en/faq https://www.slate.auto/en/faq
    - jmward01 5mo ago
      Again, not having a feature doesn't mean they don't send telemetry back. They can be stripped down AND steal my privacy. In fact, I expect them to considering the backers.
      - eks391 5mo ago
        This seems to be a dual concern: do they collect driver data during vehicular usage, and/or during web browsing? For the first, my argument is they simply cannot, even if they wanted to, in the same way I can't track my friend if I supply him with a toothpick. There simply isn't sufficient technology in a toothpick by itself for me to violate their privacy, so I would need other methods, like agreements with businesses or a backdoor to his phone. Regarding web usage, their privacy policy says > To contractors, service providers, and other third parties we use to support our business. > If you do not wish to have your email address or phone number used by Slate to promote our own or third parties' products or services, you can opt out by changing your communication preferences in your Slate account. I have read a lot of privacy policies, and this verbiage suggests that they don't sell your data (even in aggregated form), but they do sell access to a customer base. This is similar to youtubers getting sponsored - only assumptions of the customers can be made based on the youtubers content, and no YouTube telemetry itself, since that it owned and processed by YouTube, not the youtuber. Otherwise the policy would have mention of selling data. This is further confirmed by the language that you are opting out of emails to not receive third party stuff, not opting out of selling of data. Since data being sold is required to have an opt out method (in most US states), it is further safe to infer no data is sold. Just access to the reader base. I hope this answers your questions on whether they are worthwhile to use. Personally, I think this is honorable and I'd be confident to say that these cars don't have the problem being discussed in this forum.
  - torginus 5mo ago
    Aren't most of these privacy-encroaching systems mandatory?
- griffoa 5mo ago
  [dead]
- beAbU 5mo ago
  Slate doesn't exist yet. So until that happens, we should bot include it in converstions like this.
everyone 5mo ago
Solution: Get a modern car but simply build a Faraday cage around it, like those anti-drone "cope cages" you see on Russian tanks.
- nerdsniper 5mo ago
  I believe faraday cages need to be grounded. I'm not sure what the resistivity of rolling rubber tires are.
  - GJim 5mo ago
    These were all the rage in the 1980/90's https://duckduckgo.com/?q=car+anti-static+strap https://duckduckgo.com/?q=car+anti-static+strap
    - red-iron-pine 5mo ago
      the progenitor of the truck nuts also, wasn't static causing fires at gas station pumps, esp. in cold weather?
  - AngryData 5mo ago
    They don't HAVE to be grounded, but they are WAY more effective if they are.
- genewitch 5mo ago
  cope cages look like hardware fence (like chicken wire but welded, pig fence, sheep fence, goat fence are closer.) However, the US already put fencing around fighting vehicles, specifically the Bradley, where the fence was essentially "chain link fencing". I'm not entirely sure i buy that the cope cage stops drones; but the chain link fence absolutely stops RPGs from exploding by severing the wire that runs on the outside from the tip to the explosive.
  - krige 5mo ago
    Original cope cages were a very misguided attempt to copy the functionality of the actual working fence-like defensive measures. Except in those cases they did next to nothing, which is why they were dubbed cope cages. AFAICT the concept was improved since then but I haven't been following the tech tree of cobbled-together defensive measures used in that war in a good while.
2III7 5mo ago
Still driving my 2014 Golf mk7. No ads, physical buttons, adaptive cruise, frontal collision avoidance, great reliability. Not planning an upgrade any time soon.
- kakacik 5mo ago
  2014 BMW 5 series F11, still nothing just good dumb assistants (like laser HUD so I never ever get speeding tickets) and bad dumb ones which can be turned off (keeping lane doesn't work at all in any construction zone and interfering with driving is a big nono). The way they are set up together makes driving much more pleasant (heck its BMW so perfect balance and great handling at curves) and much less tiring for long haul (do from time to time 1500km 16h single day push). Was worried about automatic transmission but in their implementation its a joy and a beast in Sports mode, again less mental burden. I really, really don't want anything more in the car, until we have 100% FSD where I can sleep or watch movies. There is no space between those, not for me.
  - 2III7 5mo ago
    The ZF auto should last for the lifetime of the vehicle if serviced correctly. The engine will probably give out before the transmission.
arkadiyt 5mo ago
I bought a 2024 RAV4 Hybrid and 1) physically removed the modem (the "DCM") and 2) disconnected the GPS antenna from the head unit Took a little research but was still an approachable project
- duskdozer 5mo ago
  What still functions and what broke?
  - arkadiyt 5mo ago
    When I removed the DCM the in-car microphone stopped working, but I bought one of these to get it working again: https://www.autoharnesshouse.com/store/AHH-DCM77 https://www.autoharnesshouse.com/store/AHH-DCM77. Also even with no modem, if you use CarPlay on your phone _via Bluetooth_ then the car will just use your phone's internet connection, so I only use CarPlay via a wired USB connection. Aside from that the car works great, everything is 100% functional. I suppose I don't get OTA updates, which I'm fine with.
    - jmward01 5mo ago
      Wow, that is evil that they steal your data to send telemetry back via carplay. I always assumed that was possible so I have never actually hooked my phone up to a car but it really saddens me that it actually happens. There is 0 requirement for my phone to pass along raw internet access to the car in my opinion.
    - sorahn 5mo ago
      Cool so my USB wireless car play dongle still has some life left in it. Good to know.
    - kioleanu 5mo ago
      I have a Skoda and the GPS module was broken and that messed up a lot of the systems in the car, I couldn't use the adaptive cruise control, no traffic signs recognition and no SOS module. And apparently CarPlay sometimes uses the car's GPS module, so navigation was also a pain. I'd have to start the navigation from outside the car, otherwise it wouldn't use the phone's GPS.
michaelt 5mo ago
Motorbikes are available without any of this tech, if you want something made this year without the need to remove any components. Sure, there's an elevated risk of death, but you've got to balance that against the fact bike go vroom vroom.
- lionkor 5mo ago
  I swear there is a psyop to get me to buy a very fast motorcycle, like, me specifically. I do want one, and I'm not going to get one! I have self control. Don't look at my Ebay notifications.
- trinix912 5mo ago
  Maybe if you live in an area with a warm and dry climate. Otherwise you're out of luck half the year unless you want to risk it daily on icy or wet roads.
  - michaelt 5mo ago
    Just put on your undershirt, shirt, sweater, jacket liner, leather jacket, hi-vis tabbard, leather trousers, overtrousers, under-gloves, leather gloves, scarf, two pairs of socks, leather boots, balaclava and helmet.
hdgvhicv 5mo ago
> This is YC The home of the advertising and data broker industry.
m4ck_ 5mo ago
What Edison motors is trying to do with their conversion kits is the solution for us privacy-aware folks, I think. If they, or someone, manage to bring hybrid/electric conversion kits to the market, we'll have an option that's slightly better than hoping parts stay available for older cars.
mkatx 5mo ago
Just did a quick search.. dunno the vid quality, but the point being "'I Remove This Mysterious Tiny Chip Before Using The Phone!' Edward Snowden" https://www.bitchute.com/video/QqQmHy6aqlLe/ https://www.bitchute.com/video/QqQmHy6aqlLe/ I'm not sure how realistic this is, but conversations like this always remind me of this procedure. Edit: maybe should have responded to the OP directly.
KetoManx64 5mo ago
I bought a 2025 Ford Maverick and pulled the fuse for the telematics unit, which also disconnects the modem. It disables the OTA updates, remote start which Ford does through a phone app (you can buy a third party keyfob attachment for $100 to do remote start easily enough), and emergency calls through the head unit. None of the features that I hugely care about. Android Auto works without issue and that's all I need the unit for.

CalRobert 5mo ago

Slate maybe?

jmward01 5mo ago
So far I have seen slate position itself as stripped down, but the thing I haven't seen is that they will be privacy aware. These are two totally different things. I want a simple but functional vehicle which does mean a comfortable vehicle that has reasonable features, but the honest truth is most features I don't want are purely because I want to be privacy aware. I don't want built in maps because I know they will connect and sell my location. I don't want and 'on-star' like feature because I know (for a fact with on-star) they will sell my data to insurance companies (actual harm to me will happen in other words). I don't want anything connectable to an app because I know that means their servers are constantly in control of my vehicle. I have 0 trust so I want a vehicle with one critical feature: no sim. If you can build a car without a sim I will buy it. If it has a sim I will avoid it until I have no actual other choice.
- roarcher 5mo ago
  I can't speak for other makes/models/years with certainty, but my 2024 Ford Maverick has a "Telemetry Control Unit" that is easily accessible through a hatch by the front passenger seat. Unplugging it disables all communication with Ford servers and I can confirm the app no longer works. The infotainment center also has no built-in maps as it relies on Android Auto/Apple CarPlay for everything except climate control and the AM/FM radio.
- eks391 5mo ago
  What you described sounds to me like slate. It doesn't have maps or a sim. It doesn't even have a digital dashboard at all[0]. I barely looked it up so I'm no expert, but that's what I'm interpreting from their site. [0] https://www.slate.auto/en/faq https://www.slate.auto/en/faq
  - jmward01 5mo ago
    Again, not having a feature doesn't mean they don't send telemetry back. They can be stripped down AND steal my privacy. In fact, I expect them to considering the backers.
    - eks391 5mo ago
      This seems to be a dual concern: do they collect driver data during vehicular usage, and/or during web browsing? For the first, my argument is they simply cannot, even if they wanted to, in the same way I can't track my friend if I supply him with a toothpick. There simply isn't sufficient technology in a toothpick by itself for me to violate their privacy, so I would need other methods, like agreements with businesses or a backdoor to his phone. Regarding web usage, their privacy policy says > To contractors, service providers, and other third parties we use to support our business. > If you do not wish to have your email address or phone number used by Slate to promote our own or third parties' products or services, you can opt out by changing your communication preferences in your Slate account. I have read a lot of privacy policies, and this verbiage suggests that they don't sell your data (even in aggregated form), but they do sell access to a customer base. This is similar to youtubers getting sponsored - only assumptions of the customers can be made based on the youtubers content, and no YouTube telemetry itself, since that it owned and processed by YouTube, not the youtuber. Otherwise the policy would have mention of selling data. This is further confirmed by the language that you are opting out of emails to not receive third party stuff, not opting out of selling of data. Since data being sold is required to have an opt out method (in most US states), it is further safe to infer no data is sold. Just access to the reader base. I hope this answers your questions on whether they are worthwhile to use. Personally, I think this is honorable and I'd be confident to say that these cars don't have the problem being discussed in this forum.
- torginus 5mo ago
  Aren't most of these privacy-encroaching systems mandatory?
griffoa 5mo ago
[dead]
beAbU 5mo ago
Slate doesn't exist yet. So until that happens, we should bot include it in converstions like this.

everyone 5mo ago

Solution: Get a modern car but simply build a Faraday cage around it, like those anti-drone "cope cages" you see on Russian tanks.

nerdsniper 5mo ago
I believe faraday cages need to be grounded. I'm not sure what the resistivity of rolling rubber tires are.
- GJim 5mo ago
  These were all the rage in the 1980/90's https://duckduckgo.com/?q=car+anti-static+strap https://duckduckgo.com/?q=car+anti-static+strap
  - red-iron-pine 5mo ago
    the progenitor of the truck nuts also, wasn't static causing fires at gas station pumps, esp. in cold weather?
- AngryData 5mo ago
  They don't HAVE to be grounded, but they are WAY more effective if they are.
genewitch 5mo ago
cope cages look like hardware fence (like chicken wire but welded, pig fence, sheep fence, goat fence are closer.) However, the US already put fencing around fighting vehicles, specifically the Bradley, where the fence was essentially "chain link fencing". I'm not entirely sure i buy that the cope cage stops drones; but the chain link fence absolutely stops RPGs from exploding by severing the wire that runs on the outside from the tip to the explosive.
- krige 5mo ago
  Original cope cages were a very misguided attempt to copy the functionality of the actual working fence-like defensive measures. Except in those cases they did next to nothing, which is why they were dubbed cope cages. AFAICT the concept was improved since then but I haven't been following the tech tree of cobbled-together defensive measures used in that war in a good while.

2III7 5mo ago

Still driving my 2014 Golf mk7. No ads, physical buttons, adaptive cruise, frontal collision avoidance, great reliability. Not planning an upgrade any time soon.

kakacik 5mo ago
2014 BMW 5 series F11, still nothing just good dumb assistants (like laser HUD so I never ever get speeding tickets) and bad dumb ones which can be turned off (keeping lane doesn't work at all in any construction zone and interfering with driving is a big nono). The way they are set up together makes driving much more pleasant (heck its BMW so perfect balance and great handling at curves) and much less tiring for long haul (do from time to time 1500km 16h single day push). Was worried about automatic transmission but in their implementation its a joy and a beast in Sports mode, again less mental burden. I really, really don't want anything more in the car, until we have 100% FSD where I can sleep or watch movies. There is no space between those, not for me.
- 2III7 5mo ago
  The ZF auto should last for the lifetime of the vehicle if serviced correctly. The engine will probably give out before the transmission.

arkadiyt 5mo ago

I bought a 2024 RAV4 Hybrid and 1) physically removed the modem (the "DCM") and 2) disconnected the GPS antenna from the head unit Took a little research but was still an approachable project

duskdozer 5mo ago
What still functions and what broke?
- arkadiyt 5mo ago
  When I removed the DCM the in-car microphone stopped working, but I bought one of these to get it working again: https://www.autoharnesshouse.com/store/AHH-DCM77 https://www.autoharnesshouse.com/store/AHH-DCM77. Also even with no modem, if you use CarPlay on your phone _via Bluetooth_ then the car will just use your phone's internet connection, so I only use CarPlay via a wired USB connection. Aside from that the car works great, everything is 100% functional. I suppose I don't get OTA updates, which I'm fine with.
  - jmward01 5mo ago
    Wow, that is evil that they steal your data to send telemetry back via carplay. I always assumed that was possible so I have never actually hooked my phone up to a car but it really saddens me that it actually happens. There is 0 requirement for my phone to pass along raw internet access to the car in my opinion.
  - sorahn 5mo ago
    Cool so my USB wireless car play dongle still has some life left in it. Good to know.
  - kioleanu 5mo ago
    I have a Skoda and the GPS module was broken and that messed up a lot of the systems in the car, I couldn't use the adaptive cruise control, no traffic signs recognition and no SOS module. And apparently CarPlay sometimes uses the car's GPS module, so navigation was also a pain. I'd have to start the navigation from outside the car, otherwise it wouldn't use the phone's GPS.

michaelt 5mo ago

Motorbikes are available without any of this tech, if you want something made this year without the need to remove any components. Sure, there's an elevated risk of death, but you've got to balance that against the fact bike go vroom vroom.

lionkor 5mo ago
I swear there is a psyop to get me to buy a very fast motorcycle, like, me specifically. I do want one, and I'm not going to get one! I have self control. Don't look at my Ebay notifications.
trinix912 5mo ago
Maybe if you live in an area with a warm and dry climate. Otherwise you're out of luck half the year unless you want to risk it daily on icy or wet roads.
- michaelt 5mo ago
  Just put on your undershirt, shirt, sweater, jacket liner, leather jacket, hi-vis tabbard, leather trousers, overtrousers, under-gloves, leather gloves, scarf, two pairs of socks, leather boots, balaclava and helmet.

hdgvhicv 5mo ago

> This is YC The home of the advertising and data broker industry.

m4ck_ 5mo ago

What Edison motors is trying to do with their conversion kits is the solution for us privacy-aware folks, I think. If they, or someone, manage to bring hybrid/electric conversion kits to the market, we'll have an option that's slightly better than hoping parts stay available for older cars.

mkatx 5mo ago

Just did a quick search.. dunno the vid quality, but the point being "'I Remove This Mysterious Tiny Chip Before Using The Phone!' Edward Snowden" https://www.bitchute.com/video/QqQmHy6aqlLe/ https://www.bitchute.com/video/QqQmHy6aqlLe/ I'm not sure how realistic this is, but conversations like this always remind me of this procedure. Edit: maybe should have responded to the OP directly.

KetoManx64 5mo ago

I bought a 2025 Ford Maverick and pulled the fuse for the telematics unit, which also disconnects the modem. It disables the OTA updates, remote start which Ford does through a phone app (you can buy a third party keyfob attachment for $100 to do remote start easily enough), and emergency calls through the head unit. None of the features that I hugely care about. Android Auto works without issue and that's all I need the unit for.