4 ms·

Cant wait for everyone to realize they've wasted a year + messing with agents and experiencing a feeling of psuedo productivity.

nothinkjustai 5mo ago
You’ll get downvoted for this hearsay!
- footy 5mo ago
  I think you mean heresy. But maybe I don't get the reference you're making when you say hearsay
  - IncRnd 5mo ago
    Hearsay is a rumor or something that can't be verified.
    - footy 5mo ago
      I'm aware.
  - bot403 5mo ago
    I'm wondering if there are anti-ai bots trolling the boards. Look at all the usernames of the negative AI posts. Or maybe the only people left opposing AI are so hardcore against it they form their identity (username) around it
    - nothinkjustai 5mo ago
      ok bot403
wahnfrieden 5mo ago
You haven’t made money from their use yet?
_sharp 5mo ago
Right, just like all the productivity lost when people stopped using paper ledgers to mess around with these so-called 'databases'
pantheragmb 5mo ago
I couldn't agree more, just because I know I already wasted months and pulled the plug :D
0000000000100 5mo ago
Trick is to not burn too much time worrying about the perfect skills and this and that. See a lot of people filling skills with LLM junk, or overdoing rules that start confusing the LLM. Just try Vanilla, see something you don't like? Then you make a skill and funnel the LLM to use it for the style of task it's working on. E.g. database work is a mixed bag with LLMs, they tend to do work in totally different styles if you leave them unconstrained. Agents are unbelievably useful at helping takeover and refactor messy codebases though. I just started taking over this monstrous nightmare of a codebase, truly ancient code the bulk of it written over 10+ years ago in PHP. With the use of Claude / Codex I was able to port over the vast majority of the existing legacy storefront and laid the groundwork for centralizing the 10-20k LOC mega-controller logic over to reusable repo/service patterns. Just shit that would've taking years previously, is achievable in under a month.
- BOOSTERHIDROGEN 5mo ago
  This. Everything needs an element of human touch, I would somehow only run vanilla things. But if, let’s say, I’m creating backup scripts, I meticulously outline the plan.
c0rruptbytes 5mo ago
i treat it like Minecraft automation - it's just for funsies and to pass the time haha I don't think agentic workflows are there yet, but implementing skills to manually call and use while working side by side with an AI is definitely nice - our company is focused a lot on sandboxing right now and having safe skills I don't think we've gotten feature development well yet, but the review skills + grafana skills they wrote have been pretty solid
- jeremie_strand 5mo ago
  [dead]
slopinthebag 5mo ago
They will lie to themselves and deny it.
tokioyoyo 5mo ago
I’m a bit curious with these takes. Arguing in good faith - is the general assumption that people who use AI/agents/harnesses don’t ship features? We’ve been all in Claude Code since ~Septemberish, and have been able to successfully track the boost. Like the features that we ship that get used in production. Both from infrastructure side, and business logic implementations. Frontend and backend. I don’t think people are wasting too much time. Although, I do agree most of these posts are just bs, including this one. But AI-development has been a thing across a lot of companies in the world.
- bot403 5mo ago
  Ignore the people who haven't found out how to use ai yet or don't want to. AI is a powerful tool. Depending on what I need I use chatgpt, in-ide agents, or a platform like Devin.ai. I use it when it helps me advance my goals. I don't when it doesn't. Sometimes it misses the mark and I scale back and have it do a specific piece and I'll do the rest. Sometimes I use it to analyze the code base in seconds vs minutes. Sometimes I use it to pinpoint a bug fast. Ive solved customer issues in seconds and minutes with it vs hours. I worked on a banking app with deeply domain specific data issues. AI was not very helpful on that team. My current work on consumer web apps mean my problems are more mundane and AI is a big accelerant. Being and engineer means solving the problems with the right tools with the right tradeoffs as well. It's why I use an idea vs notepad, I use chatgpt for one-off scripts and "chat", and i use agentic workflows for big, repetitive, or "boring" low-stakes tasks.
  - ai_fry_ur_brain 5mo ago
    You are a bot lol
- swyx 5mo ago
  > have been able to successfully track the boost. lets get nitty gritty on this - can you say how you did this? because a lot of people think this is an unsolved problem
  - vidarh 5mo ago
wg0 5mo ago
This will be another Microservices moment in our industry.
cortesoft 5mo ago
I can understand skepticism to a degree, and even fundamentally believing that AI is bad for all sorts of reasons, but I am becoming more and more perplexed at the certainty behind statements like this one. How are you so certain that AI development is this doomed? It just hasn't matched my experience at all, and I wonder what your experience is that has driven you to this level of certainty about the certain doom of AI coding? Is it just a philosophical belief that AI is morally bad? Or have you actually used AI to build things and feel confident that you have explored the space enough to come to such a strong conclusion? I have been writing code every day for over 30 years, and have been doing it professionally for over 20. I have seen fads come and go, and I have seen real developments that have changed the way I do what I do numerous times. The more experience and the more projects I create with AI, the more certain I am that this is a lasting and fundamental change to how we produce software, and how we use computers generally. I have seen AI get better, and I have seen myself get more proficient at using it to get real work done, work that has already been tested with real world, production, workloads. You can hate that it is happening, and hate the way working with AI feels, but that doesn't mean it is not providing real value for people and doing real work.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- ai_fry_ur_brain 5mo ago
  I dont know any serious engineers thay are doing real work with AI agents. I know some that are building features for web applications and just punching a clock, but I don't think that constitutes real work or provides much value to the world. I like thinking, solving problems and typing out code myself. Im going to keep putting tons of care into my craft and I promise I'll have more impact than the guy running 3 agents to build the 500th version of some web concept. Rolex has a much bigger impact on the world than white label mass manufacturers in China.
  - ninininino 5mo ago
    it's fascinating that you imagine that building features for web applications is never "real work".
vidarh 5mo ago
I work on projects where we measure the output. There's nothing "pseudo" about it.
- zbentley 5mo ago
  Tell me, what do you measure? Changes shipped? Lines of code? Customer satisfaction? Defect rate? MTTR? New engineer onboarding time/TTFC? Security/compliance audit turnaround time? Uptime? Employee retention? Rollback/forward-fix rates? Linter errors? Test coverage? Meaningful test coverage?
  - vidarh 5mo ago
    Depends on the clients maturity, but some places all of the above.
    - adyavanapalli 5mo ago
      What are the numbers you are getting?
      - vidarh 5mo ago
        Initial drop, as people learn to use the tools, and while they keep babysitting their harnesses. Then significant boost once people start getting used to running the agents in the background, especially once they start running multiple sessions in parallel. I'd say you need a ~6 month push of getting people trained if they are not used to this way of working, and to customised setups etc. for your organisation, and then you start seeing significant payoff.
        ai_fry_ur_brain 5mo ago
        Was there previously huge backlog of work to do, or are you just building tons features for the hell of it because you can?
        5mo ago
__alexs 5mo ago
I'm sure lots of people felt this way about steam power too.
lukewarm707 5mo ago
if i wanted to find out the answer to my question, i would need to: - open the browser - google "john repo" - find the website - copy the repo name - open the terminal - cd - git clone - try to find the file i want - read the whole file to find the answer = answer i now do: - "john repo question" = answer
- applex1025 5mo ago
  [dead]
- ditchfieldcaleb 5mo ago
  TBH this alone is worth $20 (but don't tell OpenAI that).
fortyseven 5mo ago
I'm with the username like that, I'm sure we're going to get an even-handed, well thought out and reasoned discussion about all of this.
alfiedotwtf 5mo ago
At least we’ll be thankful for all the documentation developers have written in order to feed Claude better context. Maybe the productivity we were trying to achieve was the friends we made along the way

nothinkjustai 5mo ago

You’ll get downvoted for this hearsay!

footy 5mo ago
I think you mean heresy. But maybe I don't get the reference you're making when you say hearsay
- IncRnd 5mo ago
  Hearsay is a rumor or something that can't be verified.
  - footy 5mo ago
    I'm aware.
- bot403 5mo ago
  I'm wondering if there are anti-ai bots trolling the boards. Look at all the usernames of the negative AI posts. Or maybe the only people left opposing AI are so hardcore against it they form their identity (username) around it
  - nothinkjustai 5mo ago
    ok bot403

wahnfrieden 5mo ago

You haven’t made money from their use yet?

_sharp 5mo ago

Right, just like all the productivity lost when people stopped using paper ledgers to mess around with these so-called 'databases'

pantheragmb 5mo ago

I couldn't agree more, just because I know I already wasted months and pulled the plug :D

0000000000100 5mo ago

Trick is to not burn too much time worrying about the perfect skills and this and that. See a lot of people filling skills with LLM junk, or overdoing rules that start confusing the LLM. Just try Vanilla, see something you don't like? Then you make a skill and funnel the LLM to use it for the style of task it's working on. E.g. database work is a mixed bag with LLMs, they tend to do work in totally different styles if you leave them unconstrained. Agents are unbelievably useful at helping takeover and refactor messy codebases though. I just started taking over this monstrous nightmare of a codebase, truly ancient code the bulk of it written over 10+ years ago in PHP. With the use of Claude / Codex I was able to port over the vast majority of the existing legacy storefront and laid the groundwork for centralizing the 10-20k LOC mega-controller logic over to reusable repo/service patterns. Just shit that would've taking years previously, is achievable in under a month.

BOOSTERHIDROGEN 5mo ago
This. Everything needs an element of human touch, I would somehow only run vanilla things. But if, let’s say, I’m creating backup scripts, I meticulously outline the plan.

c0rruptbytes 5mo ago

i treat it like Minecraft automation - it's just for funsies and to pass the time haha I don't think agentic workflows are there yet, but implementing skills to manually call and use while working side by side with an AI is definitely nice - our company is focused a lot on sandboxing right now and having safe skills I don't think we've gotten feature development well yet, but the review skills + grafana skills they wrote have been pretty solid

jeremie_strand 5mo ago
[dead]

slopinthebag 5mo ago

They will lie to themselves and deny it.

tokioyoyo 5mo ago

I’m a bit curious with these takes. Arguing in good faith - is the general assumption that people who use AI/agents/harnesses don’t ship features? We’ve been all in Claude Code since ~Septemberish, and have been able to successfully track the boost. Like the features that we ship that get used in production. Both from infrastructure side, and business logic implementations. Frontend and backend. I don’t think people are wasting too much time. Although, I do agree most of these posts are just bs, including this one. But AI-development has been a thing across a lot of companies in the world.

bot403 5mo ago
Ignore the people who haven't found out how to use ai yet or don't want to. AI is a powerful tool. Depending on what I need I use chatgpt, in-ide agents, or a platform like Devin.ai. I use it when it helps me advance my goals. I don't when it doesn't. Sometimes it misses the mark and I scale back and have it do a specific piece and I'll do the rest. Sometimes I use it to analyze the code base in seconds vs minutes. Sometimes I use it to pinpoint a bug fast. Ive solved customer issues in seconds and minutes with it vs hours. I worked on a banking app with deeply domain specific data issues. AI was not very helpful on that team. My current work on consumer web apps mean my problems are more mundane and AI is a big accelerant. Being and engineer means solving the problems with the right tools with the right tradeoffs as well. It's why I use an idea vs notepad, I use chatgpt for one-off scripts and "chat", and i use agentic workflows for big, repetitive, or "boring" low-stakes tasks.
- ai_fry_ur_brain 5mo ago
  You are a bot lol
swyx 5mo ago
> have been able to successfully track the boost. lets get nitty gritty on this - can you say how you did this? because a lot of people think this is an unsolved problem
- vidarh 5mo ago

wg0 5mo ago

This will be another Microservices moment in our industry.

cortesoft 5mo ago

I can understand skepticism to a degree, and even fundamentally believing that AI is bad for all sorts of reasons, but I am becoming more and more perplexed at the certainty behind statements like this one. How are you so certain that AI development is this doomed? It just hasn't matched my experience at all, and I wonder what your experience is that has driven you to this level of certainty about the certain doom of AI coding? Is it just a philosophical belief that AI is morally bad? Or have you actually used AI to build things and feel confident that you have explored the space enough to come to such a strong conclusion? I have been writing code every day for over 30 years, and have been doing it professionally for over 20. I have seen fads come and go, and I have seen real developments that have changed the way I do what I do numerous times. The more experience and the more projects I create with AI, the more certain I am that this is a lasting and fundamental change to how we produce software, and how we use computers generally. I have seen AI get better, and I have seen myself get more proficient at using it to get real work done, work that has already been tested with real world, production, workloads. You can hate that it is happening, and hate the way working with AI feels, but that doesn't mean it is not providing real value for people and doing real work.

deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
ai_fry_ur_brain 5mo ago
I dont know any serious engineers thay are doing real work with AI agents. I know some that are building features for web applications and just punching a clock, but I don't think that constitutes real work or provides much value to the world. I like thinking, solving problems and typing out code myself. Im going to keep putting tons of care into my craft and I promise I'll have more impact than the guy running 3 agents to build the 500th version of some web concept. Rolex has a much bigger impact on the world than white label mass manufacturers in China.
- ninininino 5mo ago
  it's fascinating that you imagine that building features for web applications is never "real work".

vidarh 5mo ago

I work on projects where we measure the output. There's nothing "pseudo" about it.

zbentley 5mo ago
Tell me, what do you measure? Changes shipped? Lines of code? Customer satisfaction? Defect rate? MTTR? New engineer onboarding time/TTFC? Security/compliance audit turnaround time? Uptime? Employee retention? Rollback/forward-fix rates? Linter errors? Test coverage? Meaningful test coverage?
- vidarh 5mo ago
  Depends on the clients maturity, but some places all of the above.
  - adyavanapalli 5mo ago
    What are the numbers you are getting?
    - vidarh 5mo ago
      Initial drop, as people learn to use the tools, and while they keep babysitting their harnesses. Then significant boost once people start getting used to running the agents in the background, especially once they start running multiple sessions in parallel. I'd say you need a ~6 month push of getting people trained if they are not used to this way of working, and to customised setups etc. for your organisation, and then you start seeing significant payoff.
      - ai_fry_ur_brain 5mo ago
        Was there previously huge backlog of work to do, or are you just building tons features for the hell of it because you can?
        5mo ago

__alexs 5mo ago

I'm sure lots of people felt this way about steam power too.

lukewarm707 5mo ago

if i wanted to find out the answer to my question, i would need to: - open the browser - google "john repo" - find the website - copy the repo name - open the terminal - cd - git clone - try to find the file i want - read the whole file to find the answer = answer i now do: - "john repo question" = answer

applex1025 5mo ago
[dead]
ditchfieldcaleb 5mo ago
TBH this alone is worth $20 (but don't tell OpenAI that).

fortyseven 5mo ago

I'm with the username like that, I'm sure we're going to get an even-handed, well thought out and reasoned discussion about all of this.

alfiedotwtf 5mo ago

At least we’ll be thankful for all the documentation developers have written in order to feed Claude better context. Maybe the productivity we were trying to achieve was the friends we made along the way