4 ms·

I would be surprised if the USA is even able to plan far enough ahead to put in a sea barrier/gates in time to protect New York City, similar to London. New Orl

I would be surprised if the USA is even able to plan far enough ahead to put in a sea barrier/gates in time to protect New York City, similar to London. New Orleans? At least the old town is elevated.

FireBeyond 6mo ago
Exactly, we haven't even bothered or cared to rebuild much of Katrina's damage.
dmm 6mo ago
Not even old town is safe. “Even if you stopped climate change today, New Orleans’s days are still numbered,” he added. “It will be surrounded by open water, and you can’t keep an island situated below sea level afloat. There’s no amount of money that can do that.”
- Kim_Bruning 6mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polder Type 1 is often an island situated below sea level. For instance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flevopolder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flevopolder . Island. Surrounded by open water because that's actually a good idea. Below sea level. 400 000 inhabitants. 2 cities, major agriculture, minor airport. Ever wanted to grab dinner on the sea floor? Visit Almere Center. Though lots of people find it to be a bit boring in person. Want the same sort of thing in the US? Consider dropping the Jones act. Right now it's illegal to bring the equipment that builds these things into the US.
  - HWR_14 6mo ago
    The Jones act doesn't prohibit anything about bringing ships into the US to construct things. The closest reason I can think of you thinking that is it allows injured sailors to sue for damages. Maybe that equipment leads to a huge number of injuries?
    - Kim_Bruning 6mo ago
      The cabotage provision of Jones act says a foreign (built) vessel is not allowed to move stuff between two points within US waters https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/46/55102 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/46/55102 . There's also actually a separate dredge act too (now here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/46/55109 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/46/55109) . So a crane like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvicq-kvVbw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvicq-kvVbw ; it picks thing up and sets thing back down. In US waters? Verboten ("nee meneer, helaas verboden", in this case). Sure there's workarounds with barges sometimes; but it gets silly. Or this rather large 'bulldozer' (a trailing suction hopper dredger) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhysyOJHY8A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhysyOJHY8A . Move mud from spot where it's unwanted to spot where it's needed. Operates in coastal/river areas. Fixes dunes, replenishes beaches, creates walls, places landfill; all at scale. Builds things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Islands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Islands, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansai_International_Airport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansai_International_Airport, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maasvlakte_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maasvlakte_2 . Jones act and more specifically dredge act even: you're moving stuff inside US territorial waters. Both cases it's not (or barely) made in the US, and you can't hire the big crews from elsewhere. There's no competition, and this has resulted in no incentive to learn, keep up or even try. NB Heritage foundation on some of this: https://www.heritage.org/trade/commentary/113-year-old-law-hurting-american-ports https://www.heritage.org/trade/commentary/113-year-old-law-h...
calibas 6mo ago
Our long term plan is for Jesus to come back and fix everything. I wish I was joking...
- MengerSponge 6mo ago
  That's the short term plan, baby! The long term plan is to be the elect who get raptured first.
- actionfromafar 6mo ago
  And war in the middle east is going to make it happen faster!
  - estearum 6mo ago
    Way too many Americans either don't know or disbelieve that a substantial chunk of the body politic, and now our elected and military leaders, actually literally believe this type of stuff. IMO any eschatological beliefs whatsoever should be 100% universally disqualifying for any political or military position, no matter what book title or special ancient zombie character they're filed under.
    - notabotiswear 6mo ago
      “Leaders” who believe this kind of stuff don’t end up running developed states. It’s the leaders who know how to make use of morons who believe this kinda stuff who do.
      - estearum 6mo ago
        Eh, no. Trump of course has zero actual ideology, but there's pretty solid reason to believe e.g. Hegseth and Mike Johnson actually believe this type of stuff.
      - actionfromafar 6mo ago
        Hush now, you'll hasten the Antichrist.
BowBun 6mo ago
Be surprised, I guess - https://www.nyc.gov/site/lmcr/progress/battery-coastal-resilience.page https://www.nyc.gov/site/lmcr/progress/battery-coastal-resil... This project in NYC has been going on for a bit. The difference is LA has a GDP of about $340B+, while NY has a GDP of $2.3T+.
- kevin_thibedeau 6mo ago
  The Whitney museum has a whole system for putting up flood walls around the perimeter, plus the ground floor is just the gift shop.
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
whyenot 6mo ago
I am increasingly pessimistic about the long term future of the US. What are the chances that we will still be one country in a generation or two? Trump might have poured gasoline on the fire, but the federal government has been in decline for years. Congress is completely dysfunctional. The filibuster prevents the senate from doing anything. The president is at war with the civil servants and more interested in grift, punishing percieved enemies and erecting monuments to himself instead actually leading. Addressing climate change requires massive changes and a lot of political courage. There is none.
- oscillonoscope 6mo ago
  There is no legal mechanism left that could correct course at this point. You would need to have a constitutional amendment to drastically reshape government and that's DOA. All that's left is snow decline and eventual dissolution
  - dragonwriter 6mo ago
    The absence of a legal mechanism does not imply the absence of a mechanism (or even the absence of a peaceful mechanism.) While there is a legal process for amending the Constitution which, as you note, is likely intractable in the status quo conditions, Constitutional change—whether peaceful (even if there is the implicit consequence of force if compromise is not reached) or not—historically and globally is often an extralegal process that is retrospectively legalized, rather than a legal process under pre-existing rules.
    - iamnothere 6mo ago
      A sufficient crisis could trigger an Article V convention, which already has a large amount of states pledged to join, but the changes coming out of such a convention probably aren’t going to be good for the public.
      - dragonwriter 6mo ago
        An Article V convention is a legal process and Amendments proposed by such a convention have the same ratification threshold (which is the barrier, not the proposal threshold in Congress) as Amendments that are Congressionally proposed. Now, an Art V convention could be seized on as an opportunity for organizing extralegal change, but then Art V process obviously isn’t necessary precondition for that, just a potential opportunity.
munificent 6mo ago
New York City will be fine. New Orleans is fucked. For local stuff like this, the US isn't a country, it's 50 countries in a trenchcoat, and Louisiana is very different from New York.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- selimthegrim 6mo ago
  munificent grew up just outside the city IIRC.
  - munificent 6mo ago
    Yup.

FireBeyond 6mo ago

Exactly, we haven't even bothered or cared to rebuild much of Katrina's damage.

dmm 6mo ago

Not even old town is safe. “Even if you stopped climate change today, New Orleans’s days are still numbered,” he added. “It will be surrounded by open water, and you can’t keep an island situated below sea level afloat. There’s no amount of money that can do that.”

Kim_Bruning 6mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polder Type 1 is often an island situated below sea level. For instance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flevopolder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flevopolder . Island. Surrounded by open water because that's actually a good idea. Below sea level. 400 000 inhabitants. 2 cities, major agriculture, minor airport. Ever wanted to grab dinner on the sea floor? Visit Almere Center. Though lots of people find it to be a bit boring in person. Want the same sort of thing in the US? Consider dropping the Jones act. Right now it's illegal to bring the equipment that builds these things into the US.
- HWR_14 6mo ago
  The Jones act doesn't prohibit anything about bringing ships into the US to construct things. The closest reason I can think of you thinking that is it allows injured sailors to sue for damages. Maybe that equipment leads to a huge number of injuries?
  - Kim_Bruning 6mo ago
    The cabotage provision of Jones act says a foreign (built) vessel is not allowed to move stuff between two points within US waters https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/46/55102 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/46/55102 . There's also actually a separate dredge act too (now here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/46/55109 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/46/55109) . So a crane like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvicq-kvVbw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvicq-kvVbw ; it picks thing up and sets thing back down. In US waters? Verboten ("nee meneer, helaas verboden", in this case). Sure there's workarounds with barges sometimes; but it gets silly. Or this rather large 'bulldozer' (a trailing suction hopper dredger) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhysyOJHY8A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhysyOJHY8A . Move mud from spot where it's unwanted to spot where it's needed. Operates in coastal/river areas. Fixes dunes, replenishes beaches, creates walls, places landfill; all at scale. Builds things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Islands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Islands, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansai_International_Airport https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansai_International_Airport, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maasvlakte_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maasvlakte_2 . Jones act and more specifically dredge act even: you're moving stuff inside US territorial waters. Both cases it's not (or barely) made in the US, and you can't hire the big crews from elsewhere. There's no competition, and this has resulted in no incentive to learn, keep up or even try. NB Heritage foundation on some of this: https://www.heritage.org/trade/commentary/113-year-old-law-hurting-american-ports https://www.heritage.org/trade/commentary/113-year-old-law-h...

calibas 6mo ago

Our long term plan is for Jesus to come back and fix everything. I wish I was joking...

MengerSponge 6mo ago
That's the short term plan, baby! The long term plan is to be the elect who get raptured first.
actionfromafar 6mo ago
And war in the middle east is going to make it happen faster!
- estearum 6mo ago
  Way too many Americans either don't know or disbelieve that a substantial chunk of the body politic, and now our elected and military leaders, actually literally believe this type of stuff. IMO any eschatological beliefs whatsoever should be 100% universally disqualifying for any political or military position, no matter what book title or special ancient zombie character they're filed under.
  - notabotiswear 6mo ago
    “Leaders” who believe this kind of stuff don’t end up running developed states. It’s the leaders who know how to make use of morons who believe this kinda stuff who do.
    - estearum 6mo ago
      Eh, no. Trump of course has zero actual ideology, but there's pretty solid reason to believe e.g. Hegseth and Mike Johnson actually believe this type of stuff.
    - actionfromafar 6mo ago
      Hush now, you'll hasten the Antichrist.

BowBun 6mo ago

Be surprised, I guess - https://www.nyc.gov/site/lmcr/progress/battery-coastal-resilience.page https://www.nyc.gov/site/lmcr/progress/battery-coastal-resil... This project in NYC has been going on for a bit. The difference is LA has a GDP of about $340B+, while NY has a GDP of $2.3T+.

kevin_thibedeau 6mo ago
The Whitney museum has a whole system for putting up flood walls around the perimeter, plus the ground floor is just the gift shop.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]

whyenot 6mo ago

I am increasingly pessimistic about the long term future of the US. What are the chances that we will still be one country in a generation or two? Trump might have poured gasoline on the fire, but the federal government has been in decline for years. Congress is completely dysfunctional. The filibuster prevents the senate from doing anything. The president is at war with the civil servants and more interested in grift, punishing percieved enemies and erecting monuments to himself instead actually leading. Addressing climate change requires massive changes and a lot of political courage. There is none.

oscillonoscope 6mo ago
There is no legal mechanism left that could correct course at this point. You would need to have a constitutional amendment to drastically reshape government and that's DOA. All that's left is snow decline and eventual dissolution
- dragonwriter 6mo ago
  The absence of a legal mechanism does not imply the absence of a mechanism (or even the absence of a peaceful mechanism.) While there is a legal process for amending the Constitution which, as you note, is likely intractable in the status quo conditions, Constitutional change—whether peaceful (even if there is the implicit consequence of force if compromise is not reached) or not—historically and globally is often an extralegal process that is retrospectively legalized, rather than a legal process under pre-existing rules.
  - iamnothere 6mo ago
    A sufficient crisis could trigger an Article V convention, which already has a large amount of states pledged to join, but the changes coming out of such a convention probably aren’t going to be good for the public.
    - dragonwriter 6mo ago
      An Article V convention is a legal process and Amendments proposed by such a convention have the same ratification threshold (which is the barrier, not the proposal threshold in Congress) as Amendments that are Congressionally proposed. Now, an Art V convention could be seized on as an opportunity for organizing extralegal change, but then Art V process obviously isn’t necessary precondition for that, just a potential opportunity.

munificent 6mo ago

New York City will be fine. New Orleans is fucked. For local stuff like this, the US isn't a country, it's 50 countries in a trenchcoat, and Louisiana is very different from New York.

deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
selimthegrim 6mo ago
munificent grew up just outside the city IIRC.
- munificent 6mo ago
  Yup.