4 ms·

Friends in south Sweden and they got a hole drilled in the front yard like it’s the most normal thing. Is it there?

joe_mamba 5mo ago
The challenge is for people who live in apartment buildings in urban environment where you have no front yard you can drill into at your leisure.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
- crote 5mo ago
  The solution is of course to get a communal system. As a bonus, drilling one giant loop is significantly cheaper than drilling hundreds of smaller ones.
  - joe_mamba 5mo ago
    >The solution is of course to get a communal system. If it's that simple why is Austria not doing this in the cities? I don't know any voter who opposes cleaner air and cheaper heating.
    - dzhiurgis 5mo ago
      If you have district heating I think there might be conflict of interest / regulatory capture.
      - joe_mamba 5mo ago
        No, it's individual apartment building based heating with the oil burners in the cellar for each building.
  - cyberax 5mo ago
    It doesn't work this way. Dense cities just don't have enough space for geothermal heating. It really works for single-family homes only, or maybe just a slightly more dense areas. Not to mention that city infrastructure is WAY too expensive to build, anywhere. You'll spend more money on planning than on doing the actual construction.
    - GJim 5mo ago
      > geothermal heating Ground source heat pumps != geothermal heating. The technologies are completely different.
    - quickthrowman 5mo ago
      https://mncifa.mn.gov/heights-geothermal-district https://mncifa.mn.gov/heights-geothermal-district Granted, this system is being installed on the grounds of a former 112 acre country club that is being redeveloped, so it’s more of a greenfield project than slapping a geothermal loop in a central business district, but it’s a geothermal district heating and cooling system in a city.
      - cyberax 5mo ago
        Their resulting density (~450 square meters per housing unit) is only a bit more than a dense SFH zone. And they also are able to tap into an aquifer, significantly improving their capacity. In general, you absolutely can do district-level heating. The former USSR countries are known for doing this on the scale of entire cities. But I don't think it's feasible with geothermal (unless we're talking about Iceland).
        joe_mamba 5mo ago
        >The former USSR countries are known for doing this on the scale of entire cities. Not today anymore. In my warsaw-pact country, my parents and most of the city residents cut themselves off from district hating since the 2000 and installed natural gas heaters/boilers in their apartments, which is what most people in my city use to this day. It's because the former commie district heating was incredibly wasteful and inefficient in the post commie era, making it cheaper and more convenient to have you own apartment heating. Probably the same thing would happen with heat pumps in apartments now, if air-to-air heat pumps could produce enough heat in cold winters.
  - konschubert 5mo ago
    What isn't cheap, though, is maintaining the plumbing of the communal system, especially outside cities.

The challenge is for people who live in apartment buildings in urban environment where you have no front yard you can drill into at your leisure.

deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
crote 5mo ago
The solution is of course to get a communal system. As a bonus, drilling one giant loop is significantly cheaper than drilling hundreds of smaller ones.
- joe_mamba 5mo ago
  >The solution is of course to get a communal system. If it's that simple why is Austria not doing this in the cities? I don't know any voter who opposes cleaner air and cheaper heating.
  - dzhiurgis 5mo ago
    If you have district heating I think there might be conflict of interest / regulatory capture.
    - joe_mamba 5mo ago
      No, it's individual apartment building based heating with the oil burners in the cellar for each building.
- cyberax 5mo ago
  It doesn't work this way. Dense cities just don't have enough space for geothermal heating. It really works for single-family homes only, or maybe just a slightly more dense areas. Not to mention that city infrastructure is WAY too expensive to build, anywhere. You'll spend more money on planning than on doing the actual construction.
  - GJim 5mo ago
    > geothermal heating Ground source heat pumps != geothermal heating. The technologies are completely different.
  - quickthrowman 5mo ago
    https://mncifa.mn.gov/heights-geothermal-district https://mncifa.mn.gov/heights-geothermal-district Granted, this system is being installed on the grounds of a former 112 acre country club that is being redeveloped, so it’s more of a greenfield project than slapping a geothermal loop in a central business district, but it’s a geothermal district heating and cooling system in a city.
    - cyberax 5mo ago
      Their resulting density (~450 square meters per housing unit) is only a bit more than a dense SFH zone. And they also are able to tap into an aquifer, significantly improving their capacity. In general, you absolutely can do district-level heating. The former USSR countries are known for doing this on the scale of entire cities. But I don't think it's feasible with geothermal (unless we're talking about Iceland).
      - joe_mamba 5mo ago
        >The former USSR countries are known for doing this on the scale of entire cities. Not today anymore. In my warsaw-pact country, my parents and most of the city residents cut themselves off from district hating since the 2000 and installed natural gas heaters/boilers in their apartments, which is what most people in my city use to this day. It's because the former commie district heating was incredibly wasteful and inefficient in the post commie era, making it cheaper and more convenient to have you own apartment heating. Probably the same thing would happen with heat pumps in apartments now, if air-to-air heat pumps could produce enough heat in cold winters.
- konschubert 5mo ago
  What isn't cheap, though, is maintaining the plumbing of the communal system, especially outside cities.