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We know it's simple to detect someone's heartbeat from just colour changes of ones skin in a regular video taken with a phone camera. Wouldn't this be trivial w

We know it's simple to detect someone's heartbeat from just colour changes of ones skin in a regular video taken with a phone camera. Wouldn't this be trivial with military level IR tech? Sounds way more likely than some amazing new top secret technology that is somehow filtering out every other magnetic field and can detect a heartbeat through mountains.

tgsovlerkhgsel 5mo ago
Why is everyone debating some theoretical advanced heartbeat or otherwise people detection tech rather than the absolutely obvious answer - some kind of advanced, specialized transmitter that's designed to be hard to detect and simply transmits the encrypted GPS coordinates of the pilot?
- twic 5mo ago
  Or just rocking up to the nearest village with a thousand dollars in cash and asking where the pilot is.
- subroutine 5mo ago
  Because the NY Post ran an article that said "The CIA used a futuristic new tool called “Ghost Murmur” to find and rescue the second American airman who was shot down in southern Iran, The Post has learned. The secret technology uses long-range quantum magnetometry to find the electromagnetic signal of a human heartbeat" Note, I agree that it was probably some novel beacon technology. Just answering your question about why people are debating whether it was a device that could detect a human heartbeat from long range.
  - dist-epoch 5mo ago
    We literally know what beacon device was used: Boeing CSEL https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation-politics/injured-u-s-airman-in-iran-used-boeing-device-to-signal-rescuers/ https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation-politics/in...
  - wongarsu 5mo ago
    Almost all of those words could be true if the beacon is disguised as an implanted medical device that creates some EM "interference" on each heartbeat, or every X heartbeats. From the outside it would look like sloppy design or a minor malfunction, in reality the signal is designed to be highly trackable Not that I believe any of those words are true beyond the code name. The incident is exactly the kind of thing you'd want to create false rumors about
  - DoctorOetker 5mo ago
    it just sounds like the submarine communication technology, very low baud rate, used to transmit the pilot's location and liveness, using quantum magnetometry to measure a magnetic field without huge coil areas.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 5mo ago
    I get the NY Post article, I'm just surprised that even people who assume the Post is full of shit still run after the "heatbeat" claim rather than ignoring it completely.
- marginalx 5mo ago
  I think the fear of being located isn't based on the fact that someone can decrypt an encrypted transmission, its simply because someone can trace that a particular location is transmitting some radio waves.
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 5mo ago
    You encrypt it because encryption is cheap and gives you confidence that the message content won't be intercepted. The transmission itself would need to be stealthy or separated (by distance and/or time) from the pilot. For example, the pilot might leave a transmitter to send a message "moving south, will hide on X hill" hours after the pilot leaves, or even toss a transmitter into a river. But most likely just very spread-spectrum/CDMA to make it indistinguishable from noise.
- fragmede 5mo ago
  That's a complicated way of describing Professor Xavier's Cerebro, but that's basically how it works.
Joel_Mckay 5mo ago
There were commercially available lidar/ladar sensors that can do basic spectroscopy at a great distance. Specifically, the public specification showed it was able to pinpoint C02 or nitrate levels over 14km away. Keep in mind this was published over a decade ago, and I'm sure they have systems with better specs these days. Too bad these were too cost prohibitive for FSD automotive platforms. There are magnetic sensors that could detect rusting-container currents over 3 meters away, but still unlikely possible outdoors. There is a point where the thermal noise floor means any signal is lost at a minimal threshold. I am sure folks are extra cautious about detailing key technology these days. =3
- throwthrowuknow 5mo ago
  There are also dirt cheap human presence sensors that use millimetre wave radar that can detect if a person is in the room even if they’re sitting still. If I can buy these for a couple dollars then what could the military do with a few billion dollars and reaper drone platforms? With a big enough array you might be able to pinpoint everything alive within the area under surveillance. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007989577185.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007989577185.html

tgsovlerkhgsel 5mo ago

Why is everyone debating some theoretical advanced heartbeat or otherwise people detection tech rather than the absolutely obvious answer - some kind of advanced, specialized transmitter that's designed to be hard to detect and simply transmits the encrypted GPS coordinates of the pilot?

twic 5mo ago
Or just rocking up to the nearest village with a thousand dollars in cash and asking where the pilot is.
subroutine 5mo ago
Because the NY Post ran an article that said "The CIA used a futuristic new tool called “Ghost Murmur” to find and rescue the second American airman who was shot down in southern Iran, The Post has learned. The secret technology uses long-range quantum magnetometry to find the electromagnetic signal of a human heartbeat" Note, I agree that it was probably some novel beacon technology. Just answering your question about why people are debating whether it was a device that could detect a human heartbeat from long range.
- dist-epoch 5mo ago
  We literally know what beacon device was used: Boeing CSEL https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation-politics/injured-u-s-airman-in-iran-used-boeing-device-to-signal-rescuers/ https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation-politics/in...
- wongarsu 5mo ago
  Almost all of those words could be true if the beacon is disguised as an implanted medical device that creates some EM "interference" on each heartbeat, or every X heartbeats. From the outside it would look like sloppy design or a minor malfunction, in reality the signal is designed to be highly trackable Not that I believe any of those words are true beyond the code name. The incident is exactly the kind of thing you'd want to create false rumors about
- DoctorOetker 5mo ago
  it just sounds like the submarine communication technology, very low baud rate, used to transmit the pilot's location and liveness, using quantum magnetometry to measure a magnetic field without huge coil areas.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 5mo ago
  I get the NY Post article, I'm just surprised that even people who assume the Post is full of shit still run after the "heatbeat" claim rather than ignoring it completely.
marginalx 5mo ago
I think the fear of being located isn't based on the fact that someone can decrypt an encrypted transmission, its simply because someone can trace that a particular location is transmitting some radio waves.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 5mo ago
  You encrypt it because encryption is cheap and gives you confidence that the message content won't be intercepted. The transmission itself would need to be stealthy or separated (by distance and/or time) from the pilot. For example, the pilot might leave a transmitter to send a message "moving south, will hide on X hill" hours after the pilot leaves, or even toss a transmitter into a river. But most likely just very spread-spectrum/CDMA to make it indistinguishable from noise.
fragmede 5mo ago
That's a complicated way of describing Professor Xavier's Cerebro, but that's basically how it works.

Joel_Mckay 5mo ago

There were commercially available lidar/ladar sensors that can do basic spectroscopy at a great distance. Specifically, the public specification showed it was able to pinpoint C02 or nitrate levels over 14km away. Keep in mind this was published over a decade ago, and I'm sure they have systems with better specs these days. Too bad these were too cost prohibitive for FSD automotive platforms. There are magnetic sensors that could detect rusting-container currents over 3 meters away, but still unlikely possible outdoors. There is a point where the thermal noise floor means any signal is lost at a minimal threshold. I am sure folks are extra cautious about detailing key technology these days. =3

throwthrowuknow 5mo ago
There are also dirt cheap human presence sensors that use millimetre wave radar that can detect if a person is in the room even if they’re sitting still. If I can buy these for a couple dollars then what could the military do with a few billion dollars and reaper drone platforms? With a big enough array you might be able to pinpoint everything alive within the area under surveillance. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007989577185.html https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007989577185.html