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> engineered pro-establishment viral messaging I don’t understand this. What speaks pro-establishment in this piece?

by nickthegreek 6mo ago

teekert 6mo ago
If one can read this as pro-establishment, it's proof that the the art is indeed not so obvious as suggested above :)
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
pirate787 6mo ago
In the UK the establishment is generally unsettled by the display of the English flag. https://edition.cnn.com/2025/08/29/uk/st-george-flag-england-meaning-intl https://edition.cnn.com/2025/08/29/uk/st-george-flag-england...
- overfeed 6mo ago
  Regional chauvinism is never good for a healthy union. Even if it were the Union Jack, flag-shaggers are almost always blood and soil zealots.
  - chroma 6mo ago
    I think a small level of it is fine. It’s like sports teams. You can be a Giants fan and I can be a Yankees fan, and we’ll bicker & make fun of each other for supporting a different team. But we can still work together & be civil when it comes to lots of other stuff.
  - orwin 6mo ago
    I disagree here. Local/regional chauvinism is funny and de-dramatize nationalism while being a very good point to start discussions. Seeing the Gwenn ah Du flag in the US or in other foreign country is basically a "come talk to me" call.
    - notahacker 6mo ago
      There are different sorts of regional chauvinism though: a distinction can be drawn between English flags erected in random US states by people who want to talk about their ancestors in the 1750s, English flags flown alongside the local coat of arms on tourist sites all over the UK, English flags hanging from English homes by all over England because of excitement for an upcoming football tournament and English flags surreptitiously hung on council property by far-right thugs who attack council staff tasked with removing them, on the basis of internet memes about needing more flags to show those immigrants who's boss. England has all of the above, but that last one has dominated flag erections recently. As for Banksy who incidentally also likes making surreptitious additions to other people's property, he's never exactly been subtle about which school of politics he doesn't like
chroma 6mo ago
It was installed in the middle of a street owned by the government. Police are guarding it to prevent vandalism or removal. Both the Westminster City Council and the Mayor of London have praised the statue and called for it to be preserved.[1][2] If the man holding the flag had been wearing a thawb instead of a suit, or if the statue had been of a woman, I think the establishment's response would be quite different. 1. From https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y9wlnwl85o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y9wlnwl85o "We're excited to see Banksy's latest sculpture in Westminster, making a striking addition to the city's vibrant public art scene. While we have taken initial steps to protect the statue, at this time it will remain accessible for the public to view and enjoy." 2. From https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/30/world/europe/banksy-london-statue.html https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/30/world/europe/banksy-londo... "Banksy has a great ability to inspire people from a range of backgrounds to enjoy modern art. His work always draws great interest and debate, and the mayor is hopeful that his latest piece can be preserved for Londoners and visitors to enjoy."
- jjmarr 6mo ago
  The area it's installed in is famous for sculptures of figures that served the British Empire, generally in combat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_art_in_St_James%27s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_art_in_St_James... It's not exactly subtle. A man goose stepping while blinded by a flag is a contrast to the other military figures portrayed in victorious poses.
- druskacik 6mo ago
  > If the man holding the flag had been wearing a thawb instead of a suit, or if the statue had been of a woman, I think the establishment's response would be quite different. That's argumentum ad speculum[0]. You can speculate what the response would be if the statue was different in a way you imagine, but the thing is, it's not. [0]: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Hypothesis-Contrary-to-Fact https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Hypothe...
pjc50 6mo ago
I would like people to be clearer what they mean by "establishment" here, because that sort of person tends to think of a stockbroker who went to Dulwich as "anti-establishment".

> engineered pro-establishment viral messaging I don’t understand this. What speaks pro-establishment in this piece?

teekert 6mo ago

If one can read this as pro-establishment, it's proof that the the art is indeed not so obvious as suggested above :)

deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]

pirate787 6mo ago

In the UK the establishment is generally unsettled by the display of the English flag. https://edition.cnn.com/2025/08/29/uk/st-george-flag-england-meaning-intl https://edition.cnn.com/2025/08/29/uk/st-george-flag-england...

overfeed 6mo ago
Regional chauvinism is never good for a healthy union. Even if it were the Union Jack, flag-shaggers are almost always blood and soil zealots.
- chroma 6mo ago
  I think a small level of it is fine. It’s like sports teams. You can be a Giants fan and I can be a Yankees fan, and we’ll bicker & make fun of each other for supporting a different team. But we can still work together & be civil when it comes to lots of other stuff.
- orwin 6mo ago
  I disagree here. Local/regional chauvinism is funny and de-dramatize nationalism while being a very good point to start discussions. Seeing the Gwenn ah Du flag in the US or in other foreign country is basically a "come talk to me" call.
  - notahacker 6mo ago
    There are different sorts of regional chauvinism though: a distinction can be drawn between English flags erected in random US states by people who want to talk about their ancestors in the 1750s, English flags flown alongside the local coat of arms on tourist sites all over the UK, English flags hanging from English homes by all over England because of excitement for an upcoming football tournament and English flags surreptitiously hung on council property by far-right thugs who attack council staff tasked with removing them, on the basis of internet memes about needing more flags to show those immigrants who's boss. England has all of the above, but that last one has dominated flag erections recently. As for Banksy who incidentally also likes making surreptitious additions to other people's property, he's never exactly been subtle about which school of politics he doesn't like

chroma 6mo ago

It was installed in the middle of a street owned by the government. Police are guarding it to prevent vandalism or removal. Both the Westminster City Council and the Mayor of London have praised the statue and called for it to be preserved.[1][2] If the man holding the flag had been wearing a thawb instead of a suit, or if the statue had been of a woman, I think the establishment's response would be quite different. 1. From https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y9wlnwl85o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5y9wlnwl85o "We're excited to see Banksy's latest sculpture in Westminster, making a striking addition to the city's vibrant public art scene. While we have taken initial steps to protect the statue, at this time it will remain accessible for the public to view and enjoy." 2. From https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/30/world/europe/banksy-london-statue.html https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/30/world/europe/banksy-londo... "Banksy has a great ability to inspire people from a range of backgrounds to enjoy modern art. His work always draws great interest and debate, and the mayor is hopeful that his latest piece can be preserved for Londoners and visitors to enjoy."

jjmarr 6mo ago
The area it's installed in is famous for sculptures of figures that served the British Empire, generally in combat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_art_in_St_James%27s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_art_in_St_James... It's not exactly subtle. A man goose stepping while blinded by a flag is a contrast to the other military figures portrayed in victorious poses.
druskacik 6mo ago
> If the man holding the flag had been wearing a thawb instead of a suit, or if the statue had been of a woman, I think the establishment's response would be quite different. That's argumentum ad speculum[0]. You can speculate what the response would be if the statue was different in a way you imagine, but the thing is, it's not. [0]: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Hypothesis-Contrary-to-Fact https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Hypothe...

pjc50 6mo ago

I would like people to be clearer what they mean by "establishment" here, because that sort of person tends to think of a stockbroker who went to Dulwich as "anti-establishment".