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"my model is the most dangerous" "No mine is the most dangerous" "Nuh uh mine is" "Mine could kill everyone!" "Mine could do it faster!" "Prove it!!!" Thi
by 2ndorderthought 6mo ago
"my model is the most dangerous"
"No mine is the most dangerous"
"Nuh uh mine is"
"Mine could kill everyone!"
"Mine could do it faster!"
"Prove it!!!"
This is where we are
- davidgrenier 6mo agoYeah I guess two companies who would otherwise be considered going for bankruptcy have models too expensive to run. As they don't see themselves making money any time soon, they have to turn every future model into a weird fascination.
- redsocksfan45 6mo ago[dead]
- cyanydeez 6mo agothink about it in the form of who can pay. theyre at b2b. and swiftly moving to government.
- 2ndorderthought 6mo agoAll that user data is a huge asset for government contracts.
- DivingForGold 6mo agoChina’s DeepSeek prices new V4 AI model at 97% below OpenAI’s GPT-5.5 Did somebody say that Elon is stealthly funding: Seven lawsuits filed against OpenAI by families of Canada mass-shooting victims As always, when the going get's tough, the tough ultimately resort to lawsuits.
- VorpalWay 6mo agoIf the difference is that large, it seems plausible to me that the Chinese models are subsidized in order to gain market share, this is not exactly the first time the Chinese government has done so (or at least been rumoured to have done so). You should assume that everyone has a hidden agenda when money is involved.
- joe_mamba 6mo ago> it seems plausible to me that the Chinese models are subsidized in order to gain market share In this case, this point is kinda moot since the entire US and SV tech ecosystem, has been subsidized first by the US defense industry during the cold war, and after by the US government funded VCs by its unique cheat-code ability to infinitely print the world reserve currency with little to no inflation consequences upon its own economy, and dump it on its tech sector or on the free market to buy foreign competitors before they become a challenge, in order to be ahead of everyone else. Given this, I find criticisms of China's state subsidize to pale in comparison, when we talk about what is "fair".
- VorpalWay 6mo agoAbsolutely a fair point. And I wrote: > You should assume that everyone has a hidden agenda when money is involved. As an European there is little difference between what US is doing and China is doing when it comes to tactics. The particulars may differ, the end result is similar. Traditionally I could at least say that US was more democratic and as such was preferable, but that argument seems to be gradually weakening.
- wirybeige 6mo agoPricing for DeepSeek V4 flash is $0.14 in/$0.28 out across basically every provider or close to it. It seems most providers just follow the model creator and set their prices to match. V4 pro was set to be $1.74 in/$3.48 out when DeepSeek first announced it; all providers have set their prices to be about that price, & now DeepSeek has set their pricing to $0.435 in/ $0.87 out. I don't know if this is special pricing, or the promise they made for dropping the price when they get more Huawei cards online. It seems that providers like ParaSail, Together, and Novita just set the price when the model comes out and don't compete.
- philistine 6mo agoNo one has yet to turn a profit from LLMs. I don't understand why we need to intently look at everybody's pricing, when the most important number is instead their losses. That is the number that tells us what they're really doing.
- dyauspitr 6mo agoIt’s their promo price till the end of May. It’s also not nearly as good as 5.5. I’ve had 3 different tasks just this week that deepseek has failed at that 5.5 does perfectly.
- dyauspitr 6mo agoI just tried to do some large scale summarization and Deepseek v4 pro is pretty shit. This cannot even touch 5.5. 5.5 took 3 mins and the output was stellar, Deepseek took 20 and did not adhere to the output format at all after multiple attempts.
- alfiedotwtf 6mo agoAnd it’s not even at a release stage - Deepseek v4 is still at beta, and llama.cpp doesn’t even support it yet. Once it gets to release (they have said they are still adding features and multi-modes like vision) and llama supports it, I think you’ll see a huge asymmetric price point between east and west SOTA models
- throwyawayyyy 6mo agoThere's a story to tell in that: 1) Google has a transformer-based AI that hallucinates too much to release 2) OpenAI replicates the tech then YOLOs it 3) Everyone says: look how Google is getting left behind! Google thinks: the second mouse gets the cheese. 4) Google gets the cheese, OpenAI is absorbed by Microsoft or just disappears (or both).
- JeremyNT 6mo agoCertainly could turn out that way. TPUs were their real moat. All that capacity used throughout their suite of products on non-chatbot features, ready to rip for consumers once soon as somebody else opened the floodgates to the public. Now all their competitors lose money on every token paying their cloud providers (of course it's funny money, maybe they're just giving the cloud providers equity) while Google is sitting calmly over there, actually owning everything they need for any eventuality, and beholden to nobody.
- alfiedotwtf 6mo agoAre TPUs that much faster than GPUs? Sorry, I’ve been totally sleeping on TPUs
- alfiedotwtf 6mo agoThey could easily branch out paid for vanity products like “personalised models” that tell the user whatever they want to hear
- brikym 6mo agoIt's like that phone call in The Big Short where Goldman suddenly change their mind once they hold a position.
- vasco 6mo agoWould AGI start by hacking competing labs to hamper their progress?
- Avicebron 6mo agoYou'll have to define what you mean by AGI
- fodkodrasz 6mo agoAGI: Automatically Generating Income
- gordonhart 6mo agoThis is a surprisingly concrete and defensible definition of AGI.
- Avicebron 6mo agoIs it defensible? It sounds like a thin disguise over "income for me but not for thee"?
- redsocksfan45 6mo ago[dead]
- red-iron-pine 6mo agothat's just capitalism
- cdrnsf 6mo agoNo, because AGI is a fantasy.
- concinds 6mo agoThese models demonstrably have good vulnerability research capabilities. I'm sure their marketing department is ecstatic but you guys are far more hype-based than what you're calling out.
- ZyanWu 6mo ago> demonstrably I'm not entirely up to date on each week's LLM hype train/scandal but last I heard there was no public access to it or public-trusted 3rd parties that can review model's capabilities
- 2ndorderthought 6mo agoYou are up to date. Mythos had unauthorized access because of poor security but that's it as far as I know. Not exactly a good sign for something being advertised as a weapon...
- saghm 6mo agoYou'd think if Mythos was so good at finding security issues they could point it at their own setup for it and have found those issues easily...
- SpicyLemonZest 6mo agoIt’s easy to end up with no public-trusted third parties if we arbitrarily distrust third parties who say the capabilities match what’s promised. Mozilla for example says it found hundreds of Firefox vulnerabilities, and I think it’s pretty unlikely they’re lying to cover Anthropic’s back.
- calgoo 6mo agoI think the question around the Firefox find, is not that they found hundreds of vulnerabilities - they found hundreds of bugs. What would be really interesting is a side by side Claude Opus 4.7 and Mythos comparison.
- 6mo ago
- boringg 6mo agoMarketing stunts. The equivalent of holding a line outside a popular bar.
- basisword 6mo agoGiven the USG has asked Anthropic not to release Mythos I'd wager it's more than a marketing stunt.
- boringg 6mo agoIt can be both and I don't know how much I would trust the USG as the canary in the coal mine given their technical readiness typically seems low across most institutions in that they are probably more exposed because they haven't shored up their systems.
- noosphr 6mo agoRemember that they have been saying that since gpt2. I didn't think crying could be such a successful business model.
- lesuorac 6mo agoIt's just "thinking past the sale" which they've been doing forever. i.e. "I'm so worried that our capped for-profit structure will limit your returns when we make over 1 Trillion in profit".
- neuronexmachina 6mo agoPeople keep on mentioning gpt2, but it's worth recalling that back in 2019 it was basically the first model that was capable of zero-shot generation of coherent multi-paragraph text. Having it write security exploits like Mythos wasn't even on the radar. Rather, the concerns were about misuse and societal implications, which in retrospect were pretty prescient: https://openai.com/index/gpt-2-6-month-follow-up/ https://openai.com/index/gpt-2-6-month-follow-up/
- shepherdjerred 6mo agoAlso Open AI/ Sam admit that the concerns were quite silly in retrospect
- cedws 6mo agoCan't wait for the Chinese models to completely wipe the floor with them in 6 months.
- dk970 6mo ago[dead]
- peddling-brink 6mo agoOminous phrasing.
- SubiculumCode 6mo agoI doubt it. By not releasing it, Chinese companies will be unable to break TOS and use it to acquire high quality training data...which, I suspect, is how they've kept pace
- cedws 6mo agoZ.AI, Moonshot, DeepSeek all have a pipeline of data of their own now due to capturing a slice of the market through cheap tokens. It's not impossible to imagine that they might share the data too if the CCP thinks that will help their AI strategy.
- SubiculumCode 6mo agoNo. Most data generated this way is poor quality. It's not the user responses and or queries. If the user does not know better than the LLM, you can generate bad responses. The value is in taking a superior model, submitting a query, and getting a higher quality output than you yourself could have generated, and using that to boost your model.
- Tostino 6mo agoYou identify users doing real work and implementing a project over a long period of time and train on their traces.
- verve_rat 6mo agoYup, we are somewhere between "my model can beat up your model" and "you wouldn't know my model, it lives in Canada". This is the world we live in.
- RajT88 6mo agoI am convinced the models are not as good as they say, but everyone benefits from the continued AI hype, so nobody says so.