5 ms·

I sort of can't tell if this is supposed to be a joke or not. It seems like you're explaining that in addition to not supporting the project from which your com

by devin 5mo ago

I sort of can't tell if this is supposed to be a joke or not. It seems like you're explaining that in addition to not supporting the project from which your company spawned 50M, they also supplied free work for which they were never compensated. That's supposed to be better or something?

ktm5j 5mo ago
I mean, if they have a working relationship with each other then I guess the alacritty folks don't hate their guts. That's meaningful from my perspective. Also remember that the $50m is not revenue that they can use however they want. They have an obligation to their investors to make money with it.
- elcritch 5mo ago
  > They have an obligation to their investors to make money with it. It's bit more nuanced. The company management have fiducial responsibilities to the investors but also have responsibility to the company itself and its employees. E.g. Milton Friedman's shared-holder primacy is a crap philosophy and one of the most damaging ones to actual healthy free market economies. For example, in corporate bankruptcy in the US workers get paid before shareholders. The courts have also tended to favor the company management as long as they're acting reasonably, so I've read. IANAL, but it shouldn't be too hard to say hey this support contract for a core piece of software reduces risk for us by X, Y or helps get Z feature.
  - ktm5j 5mo ago
    Finance definitely isn't my thing, so thanks for the info.
giancarlostoro 5mo ago
So if I use vim or emacs for free, or VS Code for that matter, I have to hunt down the maintainers and pay them? Do I need to empty my wallet for every project I use for free? Because that's not sustainable for normal people, let alone businesses.
- jdiff 5mo ago
  If you use them for free to spawn a 50M business, yeah, give back a little. Nobody's saying every user should open their wallet, let alone "empty" it as you hyperbolate.
  - sroussey 5mo ago
    Enter Cursor
- rapind 5mo ago
  Why wouldn't you throw them a few bucks? Especially if your multi-million dollar business is basically a vim clone entirely based on their source...
  - giancarlostoro 5mo ago
    I would once profitable, but early stages where every dollar matters? I can see why they wouldnt just throw money left and right.
    - jdiff 5mo ago
      This isn't left and right, this is one direction: upstream, to the project that forms your very heart.
    - xnyan 5mo ago
      If you're actually asking the question, I'll give you my answer: I was lucky enough to go to a nice spa resort earlier this year, I just handed a few bills to an attendant who had laid out a towel for me when an older man sitting next to me chuckled and shook his head saying "You don't actually have to give them them anything, they have to do it anyway." Super nice resort, nobody here hurting for a few dollars in tips. I guess it's valid to take everything you legally can, but personally, I'm saying it's fucked up move not to pay even a token amount. That's their only consequence, (some) people thinking it's a fucked up move.
- saghm 5mo ago
heymijo 5mo ago
There's an interview that got scrubbed from the internet with Zach on the 20VC podcast with Harry Stebbings. This comment and its lack of self-awareness exemplify what was on display for 60 minutes. Zach is undoubtedly smart but for anyone who is not an SV insider, they would listen to that podcast they same way you are looking at this comment and wonder if it's all one big joke.
- rounce 5mo ago
  Found it here: https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-e3n2c-28221400 https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-e3n2c-28221400 The host is absolutely insufferable.
  - qwerpy 5mo ago
    I attempted to listen and couldn't get over the "Wolp" pronunciation of warp.
unethical_ban 5mo ago
The charitable read is that the original project team willingly worked with Warp, knowing the direction they were going. I don't know any background on the drama FWIW.
- zachlloyd 5mo ago
  that's the correct read - we shared what we were building and they helped us integrate alacritty. it's similar to how mitchell h reached out and asked today if we wanted to integrate ghostty. we have a lot of open source library dependencies and are grateful to the folks who worked on them
  - devin 5mo ago
    I thought the negative sentiment being shared here was hyperbolic, but you look absolutely ridiculous in these comments. "Actually, we are sure people who were critical to our success are happy they received nothing in return for their labor." <- This is you. This is what you sound like.
    - qwerpy 5mo ago
      I have no skin in the game for either side of this, but I looked pretty hard at his comment history and couldn't find anything even remotely sounding like that. All he does is express gratitude for the projects they collaborated with. Alacritty folks themselves are saying as much here. There's some undercurrent of something that seems to be driving a lot of the rage in the comments here. Anti-AI/OpenAI/"VC money"/"the rich"?
    - unethical_ban 5mo ago
      I think a conversation about the ethics and morals of forked software hitting it big, and how/how much they should give back to their upstream, is a good one to have, if the tone wasn't so personal and aggressive.
    - mpyne 5mo ago
      > "Actually, we are sure people who were critical to our success are happy they received nothing in return for their labor." <- This is you. This is what you sound like. Have you ever contributed to open source? Not everyone is doing it out of the expectation of a paycheck. For all the open source code I've worked on, my goal has unironically been for those using it to achieve whatever positive end they were trying to use my software for, and that's it. The one time I did go further and agree to do some one-off changes for money it actually caused me a hassle that year as I had to account for it under the right tax treatment, I was nearly outside the "hobby" exception you can get.
zx8080 5mo ago
> free work for which they were never compensated. That's supposed to be better or something? It's almost the "success" definition in the business language, isn't it?

by devin 5mo ago

ktm5j 5mo ago

I mean, if they have a working relationship with each other then I guess the alacritty folks don't hate their guts. That's meaningful from my perspective. Also remember that the $50m is not revenue that they can use however they want. They have an obligation to their investors to make money with it.

elcritch 5mo ago
> They have an obligation to their investors to make money with it. It's bit more nuanced. The company management have fiducial responsibilities to the investors but also have responsibility to the company itself and its employees. E.g. Milton Friedman's shared-holder primacy is a crap philosophy and one of the most damaging ones to actual healthy free market economies. For example, in corporate bankruptcy in the US workers get paid before shareholders. The courts have also tended to favor the company management as long as they're acting reasonably, so I've read. IANAL, but it shouldn't be too hard to say hey this support contract for a core piece of software reduces risk for us by X, Y or helps get Z feature.
- ktm5j 5mo ago
  Finance definitely isn't my thing, so thanks for the info.

giancarlostoro 5mo ago

So if I use vim or emacs for free, or VS Code for that matter, I have to hunt down the maintainers and pay them? Do I need to empty my wallet for every project I use for free? Because that's not sustainable for normal people, let alone businesses.

jdiff 5mo ago
If you use them for free to spawn a 50M business, yeah, give back a little. Nobody's saying every user should open their wallet, let alone "empty" it as you hyperbolate.
- sroussey 5mo ago
  Enter Cursor
rapind 5mo ago
Why wouldn't you throw them a few bucks? Especially if your multi-million dollar business is basically a vim clone entirely based on their source...
- giancarlostoro 5mo ago
  I would once profitable, but early stages where every dollar matters? I can see why they wouldnt just throw money left and right.
  - jdiff 5mo ago
    This isn't left and right, this is one direction: upstream, to the project that forms your very heart.
  - xnyan 5mo ago
    If you're actually asking the question, I'll give you my answer: I was lucky enough to go to a nice spa resort earlier this year, I just handed a few bills to an attendant who had laid out a towel for me when an older man sitting next to me chuckled and shook his head saying "You don't actually have to give them them anything, they have to do it anyway." Super nice resort, nobody here hurting for a few dollars in tips. I guess it's valid to take everything you legally can, but personally, I'm saying it's fucked up move not to pay even a token amount. That's their only consequence, (some) people thinking it's a fucked up move.
saghm 5mo ago

heymijo 5mo ago

There's an interview that got scrubbed from the internet with Zach on the 20VC podcast with Harry Stebbings. This comment and its lack of self-awareness exemplify what was on display for 60 minutes. Zach is undoubtedly smart but for anyone who is not an SV insider, they would listen to that podcast they same way you are looking at this comment and wonder if it's all one big joke.

rounce 5mo ago
Found it here: https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-e3n2c-28221400 https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-e3n2c-28221400 The host is absolutely insufferable.
- qwerpy 5mo ago
  I attempted to listen and couldn't get over the "Wolp" pronunciation of warp.

unethical_ban 5mo ago

The charitable read is that the original project team willingly worked with Warp, knowing the direction they were going. I don't know any background on the drama FWIW.

zachlloyd 5mo ago
that's the correct read - we shared what we were building and they helped us integrate alacritty. it's similar to how mitchell h reached out and asked today if we wanted to integrate ghostty. we have a lot of open source library dependencies and are grateful to the folks who worked on them
- devin 5mo ago
  I thought the negative sentiment being shared here was hyperbolic, but you look absolutely ridiculous in these comments. "Actually, we are sure people who were critical to our success are happy they received nothing in return for their labor." <- This is you. This is what you sound like.
  - qwerpy 5mo ago
    I have no skin in the game for either side of this, but I looked pretty hard at his comment history and couldn't find anything even remotely sounding like that. All he does is express gratitude for the projects they collaborated with. Alacritty folks themselves are saying as much here. There's some undercurrent of something that seems to be driving a lot of the rage in the comments here. Anti-AI/OpenAI/"VC money"/"the rich"?
  - unethical_ban 5mo ago
    I think a conversation about the ethics and morals of forked software hitting it big, and how/how much they should give back to their upstream, is a good one to have, if the tone wasn't so personal and aggressive.
  - mpyne 5mo ago
    > "Actually, we are sure people who were critical to our success are happy they received nothing in return for their labor." <- This is you. This is what you sound like. Have you ever contributed to open source? Not everyone is doing it out of the expectation of a paycheck. For all the open source code I've worked on, my goal has unironically been for those using it to achieve whatever positive end they were trying to use my software for, and that's it. The one time I did go further and agree to do some one-off changes for money it actually caused me a hassle that year as I had to account for it under the right tax treatment, I was nearly outside the "hobby" exception you can get.

zx8080 5mo ago

> free work for which they were never compensated. That's supposed to be better or something? It's almost the "success" definition in the business language, isn't it?