6 ms·

Can you imagine going to a football match and second-guessing which are the players who look human, but skin-deep are actually androids made at a factory? This

by dsign 5mo ago

Can you imagine going to a football match and second-guessing which are the players who look human, but skin-deep are actually androids made at a factory? This is what it feels like with music and literature right now with so much AI. There are some pockets where you still can say "that's human-made", like 3D-rendered feature films with some particular artistic direction. That, it seems, AI companies also want it to go the way of the dodo.

squigz 5mo ago
> like 3D-rendered feature films with some particular artistic direction. This is a really interesting example. Why do you foresee artistic direction going away as a result of AI? More importantly: why didn't we lose that with the transitions through the years of special effects - i.e., from practical to 3D-rendered?
- nemomarx 5mo ago
  It's not an uncommon opinion that we did lose artistic direction and aesthetics by moving to vfx - the ability to edit more and more things in post to change the direction or plot of a film personally seems like it's enabled more design by committee in marvel films, etc
tempaccount5050 5mo ago
The pearl clutching over the pedigree of art is getting tiring. No one has really ever cared. Most mainstream music is written by corporate teams. Elvis didn't write his own music. Frank Sinatra didn't write his own music. Nearly all pop artists don't. But suddenly, people are now clamoring for art, but they never gave a shit to begin with. Most people can't tell AI written music from anything else if a human performer played it. Most of it is better than any local bands anyway. Tired of people pretending they care.
- slopinthebag 5mo ago
  Did Frank Sinatra have an AI write his music? Did Elvis? If not, doesn't your argument entirely miss the point?
- danny_codes 5mo ago
  It’s subjective, because it’s art. There’s no right answer. If you like listening to AI generated content, then that’s fine! I’m glad you found something you enjoy. For me, I consume art because I want to understand other people. For example, when I go to an art museum I want to emotionally connect with the artist: to feel what they were feeling, or understand an idea they’re conveying. I have little desire to emotionally connect with stochastic token sampling. It seems a vapid way to spend time
  - unshavedyak 5mo ago
    You still assume the artist in those examples is real. It could be a team, a ghost artist, etc - yea it's less likely than music, but still. The connection itself is quite difficult too, given the ease in which someone could plagiarize others work - sure they have mechanical skill, but did they really invest in the painting or was it ripped off from others ideas? I suspect your connection to real artists won't be impacted. This, like the music example, just highlights our assumptions. I'm not defending this AI garbage fwiw, i just don't think it's as interesting as most people make it out to be. I adore music, and i connect with songs i connect with. I don't typically think about the possible ghost writers, teams of writers, ghost players, etc. The music either speaks to me or it doesn't. Though i'm not trying to connect to the musician as a person. However, as i was illustrating - if i really wanted to connect to musicians at face value, that ship sailed many, many years ago. Far before AI. There are ways to mitigate this, but that balance will always be there - it was before AI, and it will be after. It's an evolution. Not an enjoyable one perhaps, but it is nonetheless.
- bjelkeman-again 5mo ago
  I arrange gigs with real bands playing music. At least that will take quite a while to replace with AI. I am curious to see if we will get a backlash eventually around the content. It will probably be a mix of everything. Storytelling didn’t go away when the theatre was invented. Theatre didn’t go away when cinema arrived. Cinema wasn’t replaced when radio arrived, ad that wasn’t completely replace by TV, etc. It is a mix of things these days and it will probably remain that way.
- flipthefrog 5mo ago
  If Frank Sinatra had Ai he woulnt have had to perform any of that slop by Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, Kurt Weill, Rodgers & Hammerstein and other composers no one cares about
- ncr100 5mo ago
  Check out this album, especially Bernard's Boogie, and Horses. - https://donnybenet.bandcamp.com/album/il-basso https://donnybenet.bandcamp.com/album/il-basso Totally not written by Google.
NitpickLawyer 5mo ago
Yesterday I saw a clip that went "viral" of a few hogs chased by a humanoid robot somewhere in Poland. I had to watch it a few times to figure out if it was real or generated. I still wasn't 100% sure. Asked around in a group, and apparently it's been widely reported on regular news, so I guess it's real? But we're slowly getting to the point where you won't be able to tell, especially from a short clip on a phone.
- ncr100 5mo ago
  Yes, and tx for sharing the experience of the hog video - recommended to me too and I chose not to click, as I did not want the frustration of seeing another "tech run amuck" example, of tech disrupting YET ANOTHER norm. Relatedly, IMO "trust" as a word / concept is deserving of being reevaluated nowadays. E.g. I don't know that you, NitpickLawyer, are a real person. And when I go through the mental exercise of inventing the details, proofs, and evidence I'd need in order to satisfy my doubt, I never succeed until I reach the physical-contact-with-NitpickLawyer condition. So I think we need to evaluate what is necessary for oneself to operate in society, separate from these untrustable things .. such as media / news reports, and all the other things I just don't want to worry about, right now. :-(
polski-g 5mo ago
AI is currently the worse it will ever be. 18 months ago it couldn't draw hands.
augment_me 5mo ago
No-one cares dude. People like good enough, convenient things that serve their entertainment needs, which is shaped by said entertainment, so there is not really an issue here.
- PoorRustDev 5mo ago
  “No one cares” except for all the people bringing up that they care.
  - augment_me 5mo ago
    Since they are up against a insurmountable mountain of capital which will commoditize and optimize whatever it wants, they are kind of in for a pointless fight with an inevitable end. They could save themselves a lot of despair if they saw the writing on the wall and pivoted to something that still has value, or accepted the new reality instead of throwing a fit.
    - ncr100 5mo ago
      That is too difficult as the concept (of trusting one's perception) is, I believe, intertwined deeply with other aspects of being human, for many people. It's not reasonable to require that those people be mentally organized in a manner that already mistrusts reality, in a healthy manner.
    - sassymuffinz 5mo ago
      Maybe it is a pointless fight with an inevitable end but at least I'll die with my humanity and dignity intact rather than being a boot licker for Sam Altman, but you do you.
      - augment_me 5mo ago
        You can die with your humanity at a farm growing veggies and being surrounded by people you love and still be consistent with that I write. Seeing the inevitable does not equal loving or wanting it.
DonHopkins 5mo ago
Can you imagine watching a movie, and not being able to tell which scenes have GC special effects and which don't? Oh no!!! GC totally ruins all movies!!! Even movies that don't use CG are ruined by the tension of dreading that they might, and wondering if they do, and doubting everything you see in the screen, even if they don't. CG has ruined everything!

by dsign 5mo ago

squigz 5mo ago

> like 3D-rendered feature films with some particular artistic direction. This is a really interesting example. Why do you foresee artistic direction going away as a result of AI? More importantly: why didn't we lose that with the transitions through the years of special effects - i.e., from practical to 3D-rendered?

nemomarx 5mo ago
It's not an uncommon opinion that we did lose artistic direction and aesthetics by moving to vfx - the ability to edit more and more things in post to change the direction or plot of a film personally seems like it's enabled more design by committee in marvel films, etc

tempaccount5050 5mo ago

The pearl clutching over the pedigree of art is getting tiring. No one has really ever cared. Most mainstream music is written by corporate teams. Elvis didn't write his own music. Frank Sinatra didn't write his own music. Nearly all pop artists don't. But suddenly, people are now clamoring for art, but they never gave a shit to begin with. Most people can't tell AI written music from anything else if a human performer played it. Most of it is better than any local bands anyway. Tired of people pretending they care.

slopinthebag 5mo ago
Did Frank Sinatra have an AI write his music? Did Elvis? If not, doesn't your argument entirely miss the point?
danny_codes 5mo ago
It’s subjective, because it’s art. There’s no right answer. If you like listening to AI generated content, then that’s fine! I’m glad you found something you enjoy. For me, I consume art because I want to understand other people. For example, when I go to an art museum I want to emotionally connect with the artist: to feel what they were feeling, or understand an idea they’re conveying. I have little desire to emotionally connect with stochastic token sampling. It seems a vapid way to spend time
- unshavedyak 5mo ago
  You still assume the artist in those examples is real. It could be a team, a ghost artist, etc - yea it's less likely than music, but still. The connection itself is quite difficult too, given the ease in which someone could plagiarize others work - sure they have mechanical skill, but did they really invest in the painting or was it ripped off from others ideas? I suspect your connection to real artists won't be impacted. This, like the music example, just highlights our assumptions. I'm not defending this AI garbage fwiw, i just don't think it's as interesting as most people make it out to be. I adore music, and i connect with songs i connect with. I don't typically think about the possible ghost writers, teams of writers, ghost players, etc. The music either speaks to me or it doesn't. Though i'm not trying to connect to the musician as a person. However, as i was illustrating - if i really wanted to connect to musicians at face value, that ship sailed many, many years ago. Far before AI. There are ways to mitigate this, but that balance will always be there - it was before AI, and it will be after. It's an evolution. Not an enjoyable one perhaps, but it is nonetheless.
bjelkeman-again 5mo ago
I arrange gigs with real bands playing music. At least that will take quite a while to replace with AI. I am curious to see if we will get a backlash eventually around the content. It will probably be a mix of everything. Storytelling didn’t go away when the theatre was invented. Theatre didn’t go away when cinema arrived. Cinema wasn’t replaced when radio arrived, ad that wasn’t completely replace by TV, etc. It is a mix of things these days and it will probably remain that way.
flipthefrog 5mo ago
If Frank Sinatra had Ai he woulnt have had to perform any of that slop by Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, Kurt Weill, Rodgers & Hammerstein and other composers no one cares about
ncr100 5mo ago
Check out this album, especially Bernard's Boogie, and Horses. - https://donnybenet.bandcamp.com/album/il-basso https://donnybenet.bandcamp.com/album/il-basso Totally not written by Google.

NitpickLawyer 5mo ago

Yesterday I saw a clip that went "viral" of a few hogs chased by a humanoid robot somewhere in Poland. I had to watch it a few times to figure out if it was real or generated. I still wasn't 100% sure. Asked around in a group, and apparently it's been widely reported on regular news, so I guess it's real? But we're slowly getting to the point where you won't be able to tell, especially from a short clip on a phone.

ncr100 5mo ago
Yes, and tx for sharing the experience of the hog video - recommended to me too and I chose not to click, as I did not want the frustration of seeing another "tech run amuck" example, of tech disrupting YET ANOTHER norm. Relatedly, IMO "trust" as a word / concept is deserving of being reevaluated nowadays. E.g. I don't know that you, NitpickLawyer, are a real person. And when I go through the mental exercise of inventing the details, proofs, and evidence I'd need in order to satisfy my doubt, I never succeed until I reach the physical-contact-with-NitpickLawyer condition. So I think we need to evaluate what is necessary for oneself to operate in society, separate from these untrustable things .. such as media / news reports, and all the other things I just don't want to worry about, right now. :-(

polski-g 5mo ago

AI is currently the worse it will ever be. 18 months ago it couldn't draw hands.

augment_me 5mo ago

No-one cares dude. People like good enough, convenient things that serve their entertainment needs, which is shaped by said entertainment, so there is not really an issue here.

PoorRustDev 5mo ago
“No one cares” except for all the people bringing up that they care.
- augment_me 5mo ago
  Since they are up against a insurmountable mountain of capital which will commoditize and optimize whatever it wants, they are kind of in for a pointless fight with an inevitable end. They could save themselves a lot of despair if they saw the writing on the wall and pivoted to something that still has value, or accepted the new reality instead of throwing a fit.
  - ncr100 5mo ago
    That is too difficult as the concept (of trusting one's perception) is, I believe, intertwined deeply with other aspects of being human, for many people. It's not reasonable to require that those people be mentally organized in a manner that already mistrusts reality, in a healthy manner.
  - sassymuffinz 5mo ago
    Maybe it is a pointless fight with an inevitable end but at least I'll die with my humanity and dignity intact rather than being a boot licker for Sam Altman, but you do you.
    - augment_me 5mo ago
      You can die with your humanity at a farm growing veggies and being surrounded by people you love and still be consistent with that I write. Seeing the inevitable does not equal loving or wanting it.

DonHopkins 5mo ago

Can you imagine watching a movie, and not being able to tell which scenes have GC special effects and which don't? Oh no!!! GC totally ruins all movies!!! Even movies that don't use CG are ruined by the tension of dreading that they might, and wondering if they do, and doubting everything you see in the screen, even if they don't. CG has ruined everything!