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If you want to keep your shiny Apple stuff you're effectively trapped. Their walled garden approach works extremely well…

coldtea 5mo ago
What "walled garden"? The Mac-only apps aside, what's that that you couldn't get on Windows (and most even on Linux), either the same thing, or a zero-switch-cost subscription (it's not like you need to rebuy something to go from Music to Spotify for exampe). iCloud? You can use Google Drive or Dropbox or whatever MS calls theirs. Apple Music? Pretty sure it plays at both. Most major apps are cross platform (Adobe, Microsoft and such), or Electron based. Syncing with your iPhone? You can do that from Windows and Linux as well. Airpods? Work with Android and Windows too. And so on.
- joe_mamba 5mo ago
  How many long term MacOS users actually know how to use anything else than MacOS and their ecosystem apps and would feel comfortable switching away? I mean Average Joes off the street, who can't find Ukraine on the map, not HN users of Macs with a SaaS side hustle.
  - nozzlegear 5mo ago
    Then there's no actual walled garden here, just a vague "Mac users are too dumb to realize there are more options" line in the sand. > I mean Average Joes off the street, who can't find Ukraine on the map How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map? This metric means nothing.
    - joe_mamba 5mo ago
      >Then there's no actual walled garden here With this bad faith line of reasoning that ignores user defaults, ecosystem ties and switching friction, Windows was also never a monopoly because companies and users could just switch to Mac or Linux whenever they wanted. >How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map? Since when is Missouri a country?
      - nozzlegear 5mo ago
        > Since when is Missouri a country? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47949920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47949920
      - nozzlegear 5mo ago
        > With this bad faith line of reasoning that ignores user defaults, ecosystem ties and switching friction, Windows was also never a monopoly because companies and users could just switch to Mac or Linux whenever they wanted. This bad faith line of reasoning ignores how viable Mac or Linux actually were as consumer devices at the time Microsoft had a monopoly.
    - coldtea 5mo ago
      >How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map? Their country doesn't make decisions about American on their behalf (or even at all), so they don't have a moral obligation as citizens to. And Iowa and Missouri are mere states, and not even very interesting ones at that.
      - nozzlegear 5mo ago
        My point is that the US is a huge country and American education prioritizes learning where all 50 states are, since that's going to be a thousand times more relevant to any American in the span of their lifetime. So it's not surprising that the average American may not know where the fuck Estonia is, but they can tell you where Rhode Island is – and the reverse is true for the average European. Being able to point something out on a map is a metric that means nothing. That is my point.

coldtea 5mo ago

What "walled garden"? The Mac-only apps aside, what's that that you couldn't get on Windows (and most even on Linux), either the same thing, or a zero-switch-cost subscription (it's not like you need to rebuy something to go from Music to Spotify for exampe). iCloud? You can use Google Drive or Dropbox or whatever MS calls theirs. Apple Music? Pretty sure it plays at both. Most major apps are cross platform (Adobe, Microsoft and such), or Electron based. Syncing with your iPhone? You can do that from Windows and Linux as well. Airpods? Work with Android and Windows too. And so on.

joe_mamba 5mo ago
How many long term MacOS users actually know how to use anything else than MacOS and their ecosystem apps and would feel comfortable switching away? I mean Average Joes off the street, who can't find Ukraine on the map, not HN users of Macs with a SaaS side hustle.
- nozzlegear 5mo ago
  Then there's no actual walled garden here, just a vague "Mac users are too dumb to realize there are more options" line in the sand. > I mean Average Joes off the street, who can't find Ukraine on the map How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map? This metric means nothing.
  - joe_mamba 5mo ago
    >Then there's no actual walled garden here With this bad faith line of reasoning that ignores user defaults, ecosystem ties and switching friction, Windows was also never a monopoly because companies and users could just switch to Mac or Linux whenever they wanted. >How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map? Since when is Missouri a country?
    - nozzlegear 5mo ago
      > Since when is Missouri a country? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47949920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47949920
    - nozzlegear 5mo ago
      > With this bad faith line of reasoning that ignores user defaults, ecosystem ties and switching friction, Windows was also never a monopoly because companies and users could just switch to Mac or Linux whenever they wanted. This bad faith line of reasoning ignores how viable Mac or Linux actually were as consumer devices at the time Microsoft had a monopoly.
  - coldtea 5mo ago
    >How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map? Their country doesn't make decisions about American on their behalf (or even at all), so they don't have a moral obligation as citizens to. And Iowa and Missouri are mere states, and not even very interesting ones at that.
    - nozzlegear 5mo ago
      My point is that the US is a huge country and American education prioritizes learning where all 50 states are, since that's going to be a thousand times more relevant to any American in the span of their lifetime. So it's not surprising that the average American may not know where the fuck Estonia is, but they can tell you where Rhode Island is – and the reverse is true for the average European. Being able to point something out on a map is a metric that means nothing. That is my point.