5 ms·

Macs are nowhere near a monopoly. I would (grudgingly) accept this argument for iOS, but for Mac OS it doesn't make any sense.

joe_mamba 6mo ago
>Macs are nowhere near a monopoly. You didn't read what I said. I said MacOS IS a monopoly in the Apple ecosystem. Apple users dissatisfied with how MacOS is changing, as the one I was replying to, have nothing else to switch to without uprooting themselves out of the Apple ecosystem altogether, which most don't do but just put up with it.
still_grokking 6mo ago
If you want to keep your shiny Apple stuff you're effectively trapped. Their walled garden approach works extremely well…
- coldtea 6mo ago
  What "walled garden"? The Mac-only apps aside, what's that that you couldn't get on Windows (and most even on Linux), either the same thing, or a zero-switch-cost subscription (it's not like you need to rebuy something to go from Music to Spotify for exampe). iCloud? You can use Google Drive or Dropbox or whatever MS calls theirs. Apple Music? Pretty sure it plays at both. Most major apps are cross platform (Adobe, Microsoft and such), or Electron based. Syncing with your iPhone? You can do that from Windows and Linux as well. Airpods? Work with Android and Windows too. And so on.
  - joe_mamba 6mo ago
    How many long term MacOS users actually know how to use anything else than MacOS and their ecosystem apps and would feel comfortable switching away? I mean Average Joes off the street, who can't find Ukraine on the map, not HN users of Macs with a SaaS side hustle.
    - nozzlegear 6mo ago
      Then there's no actual walled garden here, just a vague "Mac users are too dumb to realize there are more options" line in the sand. > I mean Average Joes off the street, who can't find Ukraine on the map How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map? This metric means nothing.
      - joe_mamba 6mo ago
        >Then there's no actual walled garden here With this bad faith line of reasoning that ignores user defaults, ecosystem ties and switching friction, Windows was also never a monopoly because companies and users could just switch to Mac or Linux whenever they wanted. >How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map? Since when is Missouri a country?
        nozzlegear 6mo ago
        > Since when is Missouri a country? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47949920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47949920
        nozzlegear 6mo ago
        > With this bad faith line of reasoning that ignores user defaults, ecosystem ties and switching friction, Windows was also never a monopoly because companies and users could just switch to Mac or Linux whenever they wanted. This bad faith line of reasoning ignores how viable Mac or Linux actually were as consumer devices at the time Microsoft had a monopoly.
      - coldtea 6mo ago
        >How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map? Their country doesn't make decisions about American on their behalf (or even at all), so they don't have a moral obligation as citizens to. And Iowa and Missouri are mere states, and not even very interesting ones at that.
        nozzlegear 6mo ago

joe_mamba 6mo ago

>Macs are nowhere near a monopoly. You didn't read what I said. I said MacOS IS a monopoly in the Apple ecosystem. Apple users dissatisfied with how MacOS is changing, as the one I was replying to, have nothing else to switch to without uprooting themselves out of the Apple ecosystem altogether, which most don't do but just put up with it.

still_grokking 6mo ago

If you want to keep your shiny Apple stuff you're effectively trapped. Their walled garden approach works extremely well…

coldtea 6mo ago
What "walled garden"? The Mac-only apps aside, what's that that you couldn't get on Windows (and most even on Linux), either the same thing, or a zero-switch-cost subscription (it's not like you need to rebuy something to go from Music to Spotify for exampe). iCloud? You can use Google Drive or Dropbox or whatever MS calls theirs. Apple Music? Pretty sure it plays at both. Most major apps are cross platform (Adobe, Microsoft and such), or Electron based. Syncing with your iPhone? You can do that from Windows and Linux as well. Airpods? Work with Android and Windows too. And so on.
- joe_mamba 6mo ago
  How many long term MacOS users actually know how to use anything else than MacOS and their ecosystem apps and would feel comfortable switching away? I mean Average Joes off the street, who can't find Ukraine on the map, not HN users of Macs with a SaaS side hustle.
  - nozzlegear 6mo ago
    Then there's no actual walled garden here, just a vague "Mac users are too dumb to realize there are more options" line in the sand. > I mean Average Joes off the street, who can't find Ukraine on the map How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map? This metric means nothing.
    - joe_mamba 6mo ago
      >Then there's no actual walled garden here With this bad faith line of reasoning that ignores user defaults, ecosystem ties and switching friction, Windows was also never a monopoly because companies and users could just switch to Mac or Linux whenever they wanted. >How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map? Since when is Missouri a country?
      - nozzlegear 6mo ago
        > Since when is Missouri a country? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47949920 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47949920
      - nozzlegear 6mo ago
        > With this bad faith line of reasoning that ignores user defaults, ecosystem ties and switching friction, Windows was also never a monopoly because companies and users could just switch to Mac or Linux whenever they wanted. This bad faith line of reasoning ignores how viable Mac or Linux actually were as consumer devices at the time Microsoft had a monopoly.
    - coldtea 6mo ago
      >How many Ukrainians can find Iowa or Missouri on the map? Their country doesn't make decisions about American on their behalf (or even at all), so they don't have a moral obligation as citizens to. And Iowa and Missouri are mere states, and not even very interesting ones at that.
      - nozzlegear 6mo ago