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You've been all over this this thread responding with the same whataboutist comments claiming America does the same thing. And yet, I'm pretty sure America hasn

You've been all over this this thread responding with the same whataboutist comments claiming America does the same thing. And yet, I'm pretty sure America hasn't held American citizens hostage in order to force them to unwind a sale of a foreign company they founded to a different foreign company.

stego-tech 6mo ago
[flagged]
- nerdsniper 6mo ago
  Just last year the USA de-banked (from EU banks) EU citizens who are International Criminal Court officials for "opening preliminary investigations against Israeli personnel". The USA wields incredible power over financial interactions.
  - stego-tech 6mo ago
    THANK YOU, I knew I was overlooking a recent example in favor of historical ones!
    - Alive-in-2025 6mo ago
      Trump is making it worse, but there had been examples of bad behavior. Now the US is completely uncontrolled. I can't say we wouldn't do something like happened here (trying to stop a foreign company from selling stuff or developing stuff) if it was doing something significant about weapons or ai.
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
- stickfigure 6mo ago
  > You're right. You should have just left it at that.
- wewtyflakes 6mo ago
  I think people are frustrated with the firehose of whataboutism rather than disagreeing with you with the idea that things are not perfect.
  - stego-tech 6mo ago
    I mean, the whataboutism is a critical tool in negating propaganda. Rather than focus on the reprehensibility of anyone using threats of violence like this to force specific outcomes favorable to domestic policy, everyone is instead hung up on the fact China did this. Whataboutism, used effectively, is meant to draw parallels rather than excuse behavior. Fuck China for what it's doing here, but also fuck the countries and entities who have used similar tactics in the past to great effect. Don't just conveniently put on blinders for what's happening/happened at home all because the government-labelled "baddie" did it too.
    - boc 6mo ago
      Whataboutism, used effectively, is designed to change the subject and stop detailed exploration of the topic at hand. Which is what you're doing in this thread. We don't need to turn a news-relevant thread specifically about the CCP into a thread relitigating decades of American government and business behavior. You can make a separate submission to discuss the US if you'd like.
- Levitz 6mo ago
  I don't think anyone is holding the US as blameless or perfect, but it gets exhausting to see Chinese propaganda every single time anything like this happens. When the US does something reprehensible, people rarely come up in droves going on and about China's enablement of the North Korean regime or the many abuses enacted on its population, but every single time the US does anything we had to read a whole lot on how "at least China doesn't invade countries" as if the prime reason as to why China doesn't tend to involve itself militarily isn't precisely American hegemony. The rate at which the country is portrayed as some paragon of human rights, equality and peacefulness is either insane, deluded, or paid for.
  - RobertoG 6mo ago
    You have to be joking. The media is almost daily full of China scares. Also, the comments here are not talking about who started this war, with the GPU sanctions and the arrest of the daughter of Huawei's founder. Does it mean the Chinese are the good guys? No, because there are not good guys, but there is certainly a side that is extremely aggressive an can't conceive that others can have their own interests. And it's not the Chinese.
    - bit-anarchist 6mo ago
      > The media is almost daily full of China scares That gets repeated a lot. Is there any source? > there is certainly a side that is extremely aggressive an can't conceive that others can have their own interests. And it's not the Chinese. Ask the Taiwanese about it. Or most countries dealing with border disputes with the PRC.
      - Daishiman 6mo ago
        > That gets repeated a lot. Is there any source? Have you not been reading The Economist for the past 20 years of the WSJ since its acquisition by Rupert Murdoch? They've been predicting the downlfall of China every other month.
        6mo ago
- intended 6mo ago
  > The details change, but the fundamental playbook - using state violence to coerce outcomes favorable to said state - is far from new. Hell, There is a massive difference in degree and kind here. Mixing them up at this level is spherical cow territory.
- thrownthatway 6mo ago
  While I don’t agree with your tone, and I’m sure an unbiased reading of history also wouldn’t agree with your tone… Who would you rather be world police? One or more of Cuba, Iran, China, Russia?
  - MaxPock 6mo ago
    Anyone of those would be better than the US
    - thrownthatway 6mo ago
      Well off ya fuck then.
- nandomrumber 6mo ago
  > have military bases scattered around the world to invade anyone at a moment's notice I wonder how that came about? What’s that fence analogy called? Chester-what?
- Saline9515 6mo ago
  Of the course the USA does it. Obama was totally ruthless with such economic warfare, including on the US usual lackeys. See for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Pierucci https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Pierucci
maxglute 6mo ago
US absolutely has exit bans on people who break/is being investigated for national security and export control laws, which is what Manus did. Except Americans don't call it hostage taking when they do it.
- JPKab 6mo ago
  Please cite an example.
  - maxglute 6mo ago
    Not sure if serious, you think US doesn't make people surrender passports for NSL investigations, i.e. Supermicro trio surrendered their passports.
    - bit-anarchist 6mo ago
      Not comparable. The Supermicro trio wasn't trapped for trying to sell a company to China.
      - maxglute 6mo ago
        Directly comparable, trying to circumvent export controls. One is chips other is algo.
        bit-anarchist 6mo ago
        As another comment mentioned, comparing "employees trying to selling GPUs to an unauthrorized country" and "CEOs selling a company built on national resources to an outside country" is spherical cows levels of comparison.
        maxglute 6mo ago
        Another wrong comment doesn't make being wrong less wrong. CEOs/persons trying to sell controlled technology unauthorized for export by origin country. They are direct legal analogs.
deleted 6mo ago
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deleted 6mo ago
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stego-tech 6mo ago

[flagged]

nerdsniper 6mo ago
Just last year the USA de-banked (from EU banks) EU citizens who are International Criminal Court officials for "opening preliminary investigations against Israeli personnel". The USA wields incredible power over financial interactions.
- stego-tech 6mo ago
  THANK YOU, I knew I was overlooking a recent example in favor of historical ones!
  - Alive-in-2025 6mo ago
    Trump is making it worse, but there had been examples of bad behavior. Now the US is completely uncontrolled. I can't say we wouldn't do something like happened here (trying to stop a foreign company from selling stuff or developing stuff) if it was doing something significant about weapons or ai.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
stickfigure 6mo ago
> You're right. You should have just left it at that.
wewtyflakes 6mo ago
I think people are frustrated with the firehose of whataboutism rather than disagreeing with you with the idea that things are not perfect.
- stego-tech 6mo ago
  I mean, the whataboutism is a critical tool in negating propaganda. Rather than focus on the reprehensibility of anyone using threats of violence like this to force specific outcomes favorable to domestic policy, everyone is instead hung up on the fact China did this. Whataboutism, used effectively, is meant to draw parallels rather than excuse behavior. Fuck China for what it's doing here, but also fuck the countries and entities who have used similar tactics in the past to great effect. Don't just conveniently put on blinders for what's happening/happened at home all because the government-labelled "baddie" did it too.
  - boc 6mo ago
    Whataboutism, used effectively, is designed to change the subject and stop detailed exploration of the topic at hand. Which is what you're doing in this thread. We don't need to turn a news-relevant thread specifically about the CCP into a thread relitigating decades of American government and business behavior. You can make a separate submission to discuss the US if you'd like.
Levitz 6mo ago
I don't think anyone is holding the US as blameless or perfect, but it gets exhausting to see Chinese propaganda every single time anything like this happens. When the US does something reprehensible, people rarely come up in droves going on and about China's enablement of the North Korean regime or the many abuses enacted on its population, but every single time the US does anything we had to read a whole lot on how "at least China doesn't invade countries" as if the prime reason as to why China doesn't tend to involve itself militarily isn't precisely American hegemony. The rate at which the country is portrayed as some paragon of human rights, equality and peacefulness is either insane, deluded, or paid for.
- RobertoG 6mo ago
  You have to be joking. The media is almost daily full of China scares. Also, the comments here are not talking about who started this war, with the GPU sanctions and the arrest of the daughter of Huawei's founder. Does it mean the Chinese are the good guys? No, because there are not good guys, but there is certainly a side that is extremely aggressive an can't conceive that others can have their own interests. And it's not the Chinese.
  - bit-anarchist 6mo ago
    > The media is almost daily full of China scares That gets repeated a lot. Is there any source? > there is certainly a side that is extremely aggressive an can't conceive that others can have their own interests. And it's not the Chinese. Ask the Taiwanese about it. Or most countries dealing with border disputes with the PRC.
    - Daishiman 6mo ago
      > That gets repeated a lot. Is there any source? Have you not been reading The Economist for the past 20 years of the WSJ since its acquisition by Rupert Murdoch? They've been predicting the downlfall of China every other month.
      - 6mo ago
intended 6mo ago
> The details change, but the fundamental playbook - using state violence to coerce outcomes favorable to said state - is far from new. Hell, There is a massive difference in degree and kind here. Mixing them up at this level is spherical cow territory.
thrownthatway 6mo ago
While I don’t agree with your tone, and I’m sure an unbiased reading of history also wouldn’t agree with your tone… Who would you rather be world police? One or more of Cuba, Iran, China, Russia?
- MaxPock 6mo ago
  Anyone of those would be better than the US
  - thrownthatway 6mo ago
    Well off ya fuck then.
nandomrumber 6mo ago
> have military bases scattered around the world to invade anyone at a moment's notice I wonder how that came about? What’s that fence analogy called? Chester-what?
Saline9515 6mo ago
Of the course the USA does it. Obama was totally ruthless with such economic warfare, including on the US usual lackeys. See for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Pierucci https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Pierucci

maxglute 6mo ago

US absolutely has exit bans on people who break/is being investigated for national security and export control laws, which is what Manus did. Except Americans don't call it hostage taking when they do it.

JPKab 6mo ago
Please cite an example.
- maxglute 6mo ago
  Not sure if serious, you think US doesn't make people surrender passports for NSL investigations, i.e. Supermicro trio surrendered their passports.
  - bit-anarchist 6mo ago
    Not comparable. The Supermicro trio wasn't trapped for trying to sell a company to China.
    - maxglute 6mo ago
      Directly comparable, trying to circumvent export controls. One is chips other is algo.
      - bit-anarchist 6mo ago
        As another comment mentioned, comparing "employees trying to selling GPUs to an unauthrorized country" and "CEOs selling a company built on national resources to an outside country" is spherical cows levels of comparison.
        maxglute 6mo ago
        Another wrong comment doesn't make being wrong less wrong. CEOs/persons trying to sell controlled technology unauthorized for export by origin country. They are direct legal analogs.

deleted 6mo ago

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