3 ms·

Besides the fact that the founders are in China and are barred from leaving, is there anything that prevents Manus/Meta from just telling the CCP to kick rocks?

Besides the fact that the founders are in China and are barred from leaving, is there anything that prevents Manus/Meta from just telling the CCP to kick rocks? Sure they can object to it or claim they are "blocking" the sale, but is there really anything they can do considering that Manus is no longer within their jurisdiction?

reissbaker 6mo ago
I think it's precisely the fact that the founders live in China. The CCP can make them... kick rocks... for the rest of their lives. Generally speaking this seems bad for Chinese companies, though. They were able to raise capital from the West by running out of "Singapore"; I think basically every investor will have significant pause investing in Chinese-national-owned startups after this, "Singapore-based" or not.
- kccqzy 6mo ago
  The CCP is known to be very aggressive. Even if the founders acquired Singaporean citizenship (which is way easier for ethnic Chinese people than for other races), the CCP would have taken them hostage if they just set foot in China like for a business trip. They can invent a crime and subject them to a trial with Chinese rules. What can Singapore do? It’s a tiny country that tries to walk a tightrope by simultaneously maintaining good relations with both China and the U.S.
  - r14c 6mo ago
    They wouldn't have to "invent a crime", circumventing state interests in strategic technology is likely already illegal.
  - pelorat 6mo ago
    > which is way easier for ethnic Chinese people than for other races Nationals. The word you are looking for is nationals.
    - kccqzy 6mo ago
      I am not. I am referring to the Chinese race. Their nationality could be Taiwanese or even Malaysian and the result is the same.
      - r14c 6mo ago
        Then the word you're looking for is likely Han, Chinese is only a nationality, not an ethnicity.
        hug 6mo ago
        I dug a little into this because I was curious who was more correct here. From wikipedia, which links to what seems like a relatively reliable source: > The Singapore Department of Statistics broadly defines "Chinese" as a "race" or "ethnic group", in conjunction with "Malay, Indian and Others" under the CMIO model.[10] They consist of "persons of Chinese origin" such as the Hokkiens, Teochews, Hainanese, Cantonese, Hakka, Henghuas, Hokchias/Foochows, Shanghainese and Northern Chinese, etc."[11] So I would, on the balance of things, think that kccqzy meant what they said, and was pretty correct about it.
- deepfriedbits 6mo ago
  Not only that, but they can make life inconvenient for your family. Nobody reasonable would accuse the CCP of outright violence, but there are a million bureaucracy-related tricks the state can pull to leverage you and/or your family.
  - meisterbrendan 6mo ago
    "Nobody reasonable"??
    - MarkusQ 6mo ago
      Well, reasonable people generally don't have a death wish. :P
  - MarkusQ 6mo ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests...
- baq 6mo ago
  > Generally speaking this seems bad for Chinese companies, though. Anyone who has ever thought otherwise was just naive. This is anything but news. If you’ve had an impression that China capital market is free and western-like, you were right - it was an impression. Always has been.
  - reissbaker 6mo ago
    Naive or not, plenty of investors believed that running a company out of Singapore would shield them from the aggressively un-free Chinese market controls. Manus is proving them wrong, which will hurt Chinese companies that try to run out of Singapore for access to Western capital markets.
dmix 6mo ago
Just look at the Jack Ma case https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/04/business/china-jack-ma-rumor-detention-intl-hnk https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/04/business/china-jack-ma-rumor-... They kept him under house arrest for years and now he complies
pishpash 6mo ago
Are you really asking whether business deals can be unwound for whatever reason, like how ASML is "forbidden" to sell to certain customers after contracts are signed?

reissbaker 6mo ago

I think it's precisely the fact that the founders live in China. The CCP can make them... kick rocks... for the rest of their lives. Generally speaking this seems bad for Chinese companies, though. They were able to raise capital from the West by running out of "Singapore"; I think basically every investor will have significant pause investing in Chinese-national-owned startups after this, "Singapore-based" or not.

kccqzy 6mo ago
The CCP is known to be very aggressive. Even if the founders acquired Singaporean citizenship (which is way easier for ethnic Chinese people than for other races), the CCP would have taken them hostage if they just set foot in China like for a business trip. They can invent a crime and subject them to a trial with Chinese rules. What can Singapore do? It’s a tiny country that tries to walk a tightrope by simultaneously maintaining good relations with both China and the U.S.
- r14c 6mo ago
  They wouldn't have to "invent a crime", circumventing state interests in strategic technology is likely already illegal.
- pelorat 6mo ago
  > which is way easier for ethnic Chinese people than for other races Nationals. The word you are looking for is nationals.
  - kccqzy 6mo ago
    I am not. I am referring to the Chinese race. Their nationality could be Taiwanese or even Malaysian and the result is the same.
    - r14c 6mo ago
      Then the word you're looking for is likely Han, Chinese is only a nationality, not an ethnicity.
      - hug 6mo ago
        I dug a little into this because I was curious who was more correct here. From wikipedia, which links to what seems like a relatively reliable source: > The Singapore Department of Statistics broadly defines "Chinese" as a "race" or "ethnic group", in conjunction with "Malay, Indian and Others" under the CMIO model.[10] They consist of "persons of Chinese origin" such as the Hokkiens, Teochews, Hainanese, Cantonese, Hakka, Henghuas, Hokchias/Foochows, Shanghainese and Northern Chinese, etc."[11] So I would, on the balance of things, think that kccqzy meant what they said, and was pretty correct about it.
deepfriedbits 6mo ago
Not only that, but they can make life inconvenient for your family. Nobody reasonable would accuse the CCP of outright violence, but there are a million bureaucracy-related tricks the state can pull to leverage you and/or your family.
- meisterbrendan 6mo ago
  "Nobody reasonable"??
  - MarkusQ 6mo ago
    Well, reasonable people generally don't have a death wish. :P
- MarkusQ 6mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests...
baq 6mo ago
> Generally speaking this seems bad for Chinese companies, though. Anyone who has ever thought otherwise was just naive. This is anything but news. If you’ve had an impression that China capital market is free and western-like, you were right - it was an impression. Always has been.
- reissbaker 6mo ago
  Naive or not, plenty of investors believed that running a company out of Singapore would shield them from the aggressively un-free Chinese market controls. Manus is proving them wrong, which will hurt Chinese companies that try to run out of Singapore for access to Western capital markets.

dmix 6mo ago

Just look at the Jack Ma case https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/04/business/china-jack-ma-rumor-detention-intl-hnk https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/04/business/china-jack-ma-rumor-... They kept him under house arrest for years and now he complies

pishpash 6mo ago

Are you really asking whether business deals can be unwound for whatever reason, like how ASML is "forbidden" to sell to certain customers after contracts are signed?