4 ms·

Gallium oxide electronics withstand extreme cold

biggerben 6mo ago
Original paper: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.nanolett.5c06155?ref=article_openPDF https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.nanolett.5c06155?re... The scale is micrometer sizes… I wonder what the limits for shrinking are?
jpecar 6mo ago
Cool (literally ;) Now they just need to find something that will work on Venus.
- colechristensen 6mo ago
  A New Computer Chip Could Finally Withstand The Hellscape of Venus [1] High-temperature memristors enabled by interfacial engineering [2] 1. https://www.sciencealert.com/a-new-computer-chip-could-finally-withstand-the-hellscape-of-venus https://www.sciencealert.com/a-new-computer-chip-could-final... 2. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aeb9934 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aeb9934 Recent news :) "operated reliably up to 700 °C"
throw0101c 6mo ago
Is there any irony in cold research coming out of Saudi Arabia? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia#Geography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia#Geography
- alexandrehtrb 6mo ago
  Interestingly, the article says that gallium oxide electronics can operate in extreme heat too, up to 500ºC.
throw0101c 6mo ago
Meta: the HN code should perhaps be tweaked so that *.sa submissions can handle three-level domains, as the 'base' for anything seems to be two-level (like X.uk): * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.sa#Second-level_domains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.sa#Second-level_domains * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.edu_(second-level_domain) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.edu_(second-level_domain) * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.ac_(second-level_domain) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.ac_(second-level_domain)
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- cwillu 6mo ago
  Email hn@ycombinator.com
caymanjim 6mo ago
I question the claim that electronics are at risk of being too cold in space. It's generally the complete opposite—it's hard to keep electronics from overheating in space, because you can't shed heat by convection and are limited to radiation. And the components all produce heat while operating. It's trivial to insulate things. It's a lot harder to radiate the energy when you want to. It does sound like this might help with the hot end of the spectrum, though.
- quentindanjou 6mo ago
  I think you are right about the high temperature issues. But extremely cold temperatures also have their problems: the metal contained in electronic devices tends to contract and become more brittle.
- boothby 6mo ago
  From the article: > At low temperatures, however, electrons become trapped and cannot move, a phenomenon known as freeze-out. This is a well-known phenomenon. And while you're right that keeping something cool in space requires engineering, keeping things warm in space is also challenging and may require energy expenditure that's otherwise wasteful. For an artificial example, say you want to put a beacon on an asteroid that emits a signal once a day. You don't want to burn energy keeping the electronics alive or, the beacon won't last very long. You'd like it to sleep without using power, and wake up without needing to warm up. And that means operating at cryogenic temperature. And of course, chips that work in cryogenic environments are also useful in terrestrial contexts -- we love stuffing refrigerators full of exciting circuitry where I work.
YakBizzarro 6mo ago
The claim that traditional electronics can't work at deep cryogenic temperatures is vastly exaggerated. Of course you can't take something as complex as a modern microprocessor and hope it works at 4K, but modern fully-depleted MOSFETs typically works. Their electrical characteristic will be different, so a tailored design it's often needed
- generuso 6mo ago
  Exactly. In physics, when people measured things at 4K, there were many examples of active circuits built to measure or amplify things in situ at 4K, and only send the results out, often by the same wire that was used to power the circuit.
generuso 6mo ago
The point is not that silicon is not suitable for extreme cold -- it is, with careful design. But the authors want to use a semiconductor which would operate at much higher temperatures than silicon can. And most of these have a disadvantage that they stop working at low temperatures. What the authors have developed, is transistors which could work at a very high temperature, but also work at extremely low temperature. That is quite rare.

Original paper: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.nanolett.5c06155?ref=article_openPDF https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.nanolett.5c06155?re... The scale is micrometer sizes… I wonder what the limits for shrinking are?

jpecar 6mo ago

Cool (literally ;) Now they just need to find something that will work on Venus.

colechristensen 6mo ago
A New Computer Chip Could Finally Withstand The Hellscape of Venus [1] High-temperature memristors enabled by interfacial engineering [2] 1. https://www.sciencealert.com/a-new-computer-chip-could-finally-withstand-the-hellscape-of-venus https://www.sciencealert.com/a-new-computer-chip-could-final... 2. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aeb9934 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aeb9934 Recent news :) "operated reliably up to 700 °C"

throw0101c 6mo ago

Is there any irony in cold research coming out of Saudi Arabia? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia#Geography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia#Geography

alexandrehtrb 6mo ago
Interestingly, the article says that gallium oxide electronics can operate in extreme heat too, up to 500ºC.

throw0101c 6mo ago

Meta: the HN code should perhaps be tweaked so that *.sa submissions can handle three-level domains, as the 'base' for anything seems to be two-level (like X.uk): * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.sa#Second-level_domains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.sa#Second-level_domains * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.edu_(second-level_domain) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.edu_(second-level_domain) * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.ac_(second-level_domain) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.ac_(second-level_domain)

deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
cwillu 6mo ago
Email hn@ycombinator.com

caymanjim 6mo ago

I question the claim that electronics are at risk of being too cold in space. It's generally the complete opposite—it's hard to keep electronics from overheating in space, because you can't shed heat by convection and are limited to radiation. And the components all produce heat while operating. It's trivial to insulate things. It's a lot harder to radiate the energy when you want to. It does sound like this might help with the hot end of the spectrum, though.

quentindanjou 6mo ago
I think you are right about the high temperature issues. But extremely cold temperatures also have their problems: the metal contained in electronic devices tends to contract and become more brittle.
boothby 6mo ago
From the article: > At low temperatures, however, electrons become trapped and cannot move, a phenomenon known as freeze-out. This is a well-known phenomenon. And while you're right that keeping something cool in space requires engineering, keeping things warm in space is also challenging and may require energy expenditure that's otherwise wasteful. For an artificial example, say you want to put a beacon on an asteroid that emits a signal once a day. You don't want to burn energy keeping the electronics alive or, the beacon won't last very long. You'd like it to sleep without using power, and wake up without needing to warm up. And that means operating at cryogenic temperature. And of course, chips that work in cryogenic environments are also useful in terrestrial contexts -- we love stuffing refrigerators full of exciting circuitry where I work.

YakBizzarro 6mo ago

The claim that traditional electronics can't work at deep cryogenic temperatures is vastly exaggerated. Of course you can't take something as complex as a modern microprocessor and hope it works at 4K, but modern fully-depleted MOSFETs typically works. Their electrical characteristic will be different, so a tailored design it's often needed

generuso 6mo ago
Exactly. In physics, when people measured things at 4K, there were many examples of active circuits built to measure or amplify things in situ at 4K, and only send the results out, often by the same wire that was used to power the circuit.

generuso 6mo ago

The point is not that silicon is not suitable for extreme cold -- it is, with careful design. But the authors want to use a semiconductor which would operate at much higher temperatures than silicon can. And most of these have a disadvantage that they stop working at low temperatures. What the authors have developed, is transistors which could work at a very high temperature, but also work at extremely low temperature. That is quite rare.