3 ms·

Is framework aiming for mass market breakthrough? if so, I hope they're planning on the macbook neo. I have no reason to recommend it outside of tech-enthusiast

Is framework aiming for mass market breakthrough? if so, I hope they're planning on the macbook neo. I have no reason to recommend it outside of tech-enthusiast circles over a macbook now, thanks to the neo. But I really don't think they want mass market, it wouldn't be a win for anyone. By design, it's a "repairable" computer, so people who want to repair their own laptop are the main customers. You can't repair macs easily, but they last long enough for that to not be an issue. and honestly, the apple care experience is ideal for most people. I do hope then that they stick to the tech-enthusiast market perfecting Linux-friendly laptops. The laptop market hasn't learned from framework's success, so I was hoping at the wake of the neo's success, someone could prove a similar quality laptop is possible by a non-apple company, keeping the competition alive. My biggest concern for them is, one of these bigger laptop makers panic because of losses from the neo, and takes over framework.

burgerone 6mo ago
The apple care experience is a scam
- deaux 6mo ago
  Just a few years ago I accidentally stood on my Macbook, screen broke and we got a new one no questions asked. If that's a scam then everything is.
  - burgerone 5mo ago
    Firstly, you had to pay so much money for that screen that you had to consider buying a new device. Secondly, Apple Products seem specifically engineered to easily break catastrophically (see SSD power supply below speaker grill, zapping the NAND modules if liquid enters the conveniently placed holes. Or a loose metal plate slicing a crucial ribbon cable when the phone was dropped. And many more such cases This mix of overly fragile design and ridiculously expensive first-party repairs combined with parts pairing and the resulting inability of third-party, non-apple-certified repair shops to level the playing field is what I call a scam.
- notepad0x90 6mo ago
  Not for people who don't know the first thing about laptops and how to fix them.
eigenspace 6mo ago
Framework laptops are selling like crazy. The pre-orders on their highest end configuration of the new pro are completely sold out, and the pre-orders on the two lower variants are backed up until their 9th batch that wont ship until August. It looks like theyre selling more laptops than they expected to, not less. Their laptops are niche, but that niche seems to be growing quite nicely. There's a big cultural wave of frustration with Big Tech companies and their rent-seeking practices, and Framework is doing a good job of riding this wave. Your concern about their being bought out is unfounded. They're not a publicly traded company and dont need to sell equity to anyone if they dont want to.
- cromka 6mo ago
  We don't know the batch sizes to make such statements.
  - eigenspace 6mo ago
    It's at the very least indicative that they are selling more units than they expected to sell, and likely dont have enough allocation of at least some of those chips. Sure, they could have thought it'd only sell a tiny number of units, but if they thought that, they wouldnt have launched the product. Im happy for them
    - cromka 6mo ago
      > It's at the very least indicative that they are selling more units than they expected to sell, Hate to be contrarian here but this is a known marketing trick to make product appear as selling faster than it does to create hype. I'm sure you waited in line to a club/bar for 30 minutes only to realize club/bar was empty? They are still a for-profit company and I totally expect those batches' shipping times to actually reduce soon. An order placed right now would ship in August and at this point it must be cutting into their earnings because any regular, walk-in type of customer is not gonna wait this long for their laptop.
      - 6mo ago
pjmlp 6mo ago
I have zero reasons to recomend paying 800 euros for a mobile SOC with 8 GB, and the Apple experience is pretty much hit and miss, it certainly isn't worthwhile the extra cost when one needs to top it up with Apple Care, and get lemons like buterfly keyboard, Tahoe and many other issues that get had waved because "It is Apple!". Then you get the nerds that get Apple because "I know this, it is UNIX!", when in reality what they wanted was GNU/Linux, and then complain all the time it isn't, because they skipped the class where UNIX, POSIX and all differences throught history were explained.
- notepad0x90 6mo ago
  mass market consumers don't even know what "SOC" is, and would pretty much disagree with the rest of your sentiment. I think I was clear on the context being for them, not tech enthusiasts like yourself.
  - pjmlp 6mo ago
    They will disagree when they find their phone powered experience to be sluggish, after a couple of Electron garbage powered apps are running, which they also don't care are making use of.
    - commandersaki 6mo ago
      Mate, it'd smoke the FW12 especially when it comes to energy efficiency and heat. Also FW12 has a fan.
      - pjmlp 6mo ago
        Hardly something that people check down at Media Markt.
        commandersaki 5mo ago
        People considering the Neo aren't thinking they're being constrained by a mobile SoC when it performs just as well as M1 with a slightly reduced core count. The fact that they're selling incredibly well is a testament to that.
ktallett 6mo ago
The framework 12 is comparable in cost to a macbook neo, plus can work with a stylus as a tablet. I would say that is huge reason to recommend it. As well as that it can be repaired and upgraded as and when you want which is handy. Likewise it also can be used indefinitely theoretically as you can replace broken parts and a computer from 15 years ago is still usable today, so I am sure computers from today can still be used in 15 years.
- throwaway270925 6mo ago
  > The framework 12 is comparable in cost to a macbook neo No it isnt, not by a long shot! Only if you buy the basic entry level version (DIY) without any RAM, storage, ports or a charger. At which point we arent remotely talking about the same thing anymore!
  - ktallett 6mo ago
    It's approx £80 to £100 more for the same ram and SSD configuration as a £600 MacBook neo (No charger given in many countries as most people have a usb c charger). That's comparable. It's not a huge difference and the feature set is far greater for the framework. (£545 with the device with ports, £80 for the ram £50 for the SSD.)
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
    - throwaway270925 6mo ago
      Are these edu prices? Or is frameworks EU pricing just nuts? Here a comparable configuration to the neo is close to 800€!
      - ktallett 5mo ago
        I'm sensing the EU prices are just high as Framework don't offer edu prices.
commandersaki 6mo ago
The macbook neo is pretty repairable. Getting parts might be an issue though.
d3Xt3r 6mo ago
It's less about repairability and more about modularity and upgradability. The repairability is just a bonus as a result of its modular-first design. The whole point of the Framework is that it's your "final" laptop. Just buy it once, and upgrade whatever part you wish as and when you want to. For instance, folks who got the original Framwork 5 years ago can still buy the latest mainboard or chassis and keep using the rest of their gear, if they wanted to. Of course, most people don't care about all that these days. Heck, most people don't even care about owning a computer, since smartphones have taken over.
hu3 6mo ago
And he forced to use Tahoe over Linux? Zero chance.
subscribed 6mo ago
I like the form factor, screen quality (even though I prefer 16:10), the fact it works, the ports, but I'm lowkey pissed with the atrocious battery life - my new 13" AMD dies after 36h in sleep mode, unplugged and put to sleep at 90% All the firmware updates are installed, there's nothing concerning in the logs. Weak and laughable. Not even a few years old xps13s with hundreds cycles are this bad. For office work, fine, plenty of horsepower, easy to fix, but not for private use at this point.
- longitudinal93 6mo ago
  I assume you are using Linux. Did you do the advanced install to enable S3 hibernation?
  - subscribed 5mo ago
    Advanced install of what? I didn't do "advanced install" of anything on my previous Dell XPS (which was bad for other reasons) but my battery could easily hold 4+ days. Also I don't need (S4) hibernation, I'm talking about standby (I meant S3, "save to ram").

burgerone 6mo ago

The apple care experience is a scam

deaux 6mo ago
Just a few years ago I accidentally stood on my Macbook, screen broke and we got a new one no questions asked. If that's a scam then everything is.
- burgerone 5mo ago
  Firstly, you had to pay so much money for that screen that you had to consider buying a new device. Secondly, Apple Products seem specifically engineered to easily break catastrophically (see SSD power supply below speaker grill, zapping the NAND modules if liquid enters the conveniently placed holes. Or a loose metal plate slicing a crucial ribbon cable when the phone was dropped. And many more such cases This mix of overly fragile design and ridiculously expensive first-party repairs combined with parts pairing and the resulting inability of third-party, non-apple-certified repair shops to level the playing field is what I call a scam.
notepad0x90 6mo ago
Not for people who don't know the first thing about laptops and how to fix them.

eigenspace 6mo ago

Framework laptops are selling like crazy. The pre-orders on their highest end configuration of the new pro are completely sold out, and the pre-orders on the two lower variants are backed up until their 9th batch that wont ship until August. It looks like theyre selling more laptops than they expected to, not less. Their laptops are niche, but that niche seems to be growing quite nicely. There's a big cultural wave of frustration with Big Tech companies and their rent-seeking practices, and Framework is doing a good job of riding this wave. Your concern about their being bought out is unfounded. They're not a publicly traded company and dont need to sell equity to anyone if they dont want to.

cromka 6mo ago
We don't know the batch sizes to make such statements.
- eigenspace 6mo ago
  It's at the very least indicative that they are selling more units than they expected to sell, and likely dont have enough allocation of at least some of those chips. Sure, they could have thought it'd only sell a tiny number of units, but if they thought that, they wouldnt have launched the product. Im happy for them
  - cromka 6mo ago
    > It's at the very least indicative that they are selling more units than they expected to sell, Hate to be contrarian here but this is a known marketing trick to make product appear as selling faster than it does to create hype. I'm sure you waited in line to a club/bar for 30 minutes only to realize club/bar was empty? They are still a for-profit company and I totally expect those batches' shipping times to actually reduce soon. An order placed right now would ship in August and at this point it must be cutting into their earnings because any regular, walk-in type of customer is not gonna wait this long for their laptop.
    - 6mo ago

pjmlp 6mo ago

I have zero reasons to recomend paying 800 euros for a mobile SOC with 8 GB, and the Apple experience is pretty much hit and miss, it certainly isn't worthwhile the extra cost when one needs to top it up with Apple Care, and get lemons like buterfly keyboard, Tahoe and many other issues that get had waved because "It is Apple!". Then you get the nerds that get Apple because "I know this, it is UNIX!", when in reality what they wanted was GNU/Linux, and then complain all the time it isn't, because they skipped the class where UNIX, POSIX and all differences throught history were explained.

notepad0x90 6mo ago
mass market consumers don't even know what "SOC" is, and would pretty much disagree with the rest of your sentiment. I think I was clear on the context being for them, not tech enthusiasts like yourself.
- pjmlp 6mo ago
  They will disagree when they find their phone powered experience to be sluggish, after a couple of Electron garbage powered apps are running, which they also don't care are making use of.
  - commandersaki 6mo ago
    Mate, it'd smoke the FW12 especially when it comes to energy efficiency and heat. Also FW12 has a fan.
    - pjmlp 6mo ago
      Hardly something that people check down at Media Markt.
      - commandersaki 5mo ago
        People considering the Neo aren't thinking they're being constrained by a mobile SoC when it performs just as well as M1 with a slightly reduced core count. The fact that they're selling incredibly well is a testament to that.

ktallett 6mo ago

The framework 12 is comparable in cost to a macbook neo, plus can work with a stylus as a tablet. I would say that is huge reason to recommend it. As well as that it can be repaired and upgraded as and when you want which is handy. Likewise it also can be used indefinitely theoretically as you can replace broken parts and a computer from 15 years ago is still usable today, so I am sure computers from today can still be used in 15 years.

throwaway270925 6mo ago
> The framework 12 is comparable in cost to a macbook neo No it isnt, not by a long shot! Only if you buy the basic entry level version (DIY) without any RAM, storage, ports or a charger. At which point we arent remotely talking about the same thing anymore!
- ktallett 6mo ago
  It's approx £80 to £100 more for the same ram and SSD configuration as a £600 MacBook neo (No charger given in many countries as most people have a usb c charger). That's comparable. It's not a huge difference and the feature set is far greater for the framework. (£545 with the device with ports, £80 for the ram £50 for the SSD.)
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  - throwaway270925 6mo ago
    Are these edu prices? Or is frameworks EU pricing just nuts? Here a comparable configuration to the neo is close to 800€!
    - ktallett 5mo ago
      I'm sensing the EU prices are just high as Framework don't offer edu prices.

commandersaki 6mo ago

The macbook neo is pretty repairable. Getting parts might be an issue though.

d3Xt3r 6mo ago

It's less about repairability and more about modularity and upgradability. The repairability is just a bonus as a result of its modular-first design. The whole point of the Framework is that it's your "final" laptop. Just buy it once, and upgrade whatever part you wish as and when you want to. For instance, folks who got the original Framwork 5 years ago can still buy the latest mainboard or chassis and keep using the rest of their gear, if they wanted to. Of course, most people don't care about all that these days. Heck, most people don't even care about owning a computer, since smartphones have taken over.

hu3 6mo ago

And he forced to use Tahoe over Linux? Zero chance.

subscribed 6mo ago

I like the form factor, screen quality (even though I prefer 16:10), the fact it works, the ports, but I'm lowkey pissed with the atrocious battery life - my new 13" AMD dies after 36h in sleep mode, unplugged and put to sleep at 90% All the firmware updates are installed, there's nothing concerning in the logs. Weak and laughable. Not even a few years old xps13s with hundreds cycles are this bad. For office work, fine, plenty of horsepower, easy to fix, but not for private use at this point.

longitudinal93 6mo ago
I assume you are using Linux. Did you do the advanced install to enable S3 hibernation?
- subscribed 5mo ago
  Advanced install of what? I didn't do "advanced install" of anything on my previous Dell XPS (which was bad for other reasons) but my battery could easily hold 4+ days. Also I don't need (S4) hibernation, I'm talking about standby (I meant S3, "save to ram").