37 ms·

> Can't find a Waymo article about this, but Lyft and Uber (let alone trad taxis) also do this. I'm not sure that this is a particularly autonomous-car-shaped s

by jMyles 6mo ago

> Can't find a Waymo article about this, but Lyft and Uber (let alone trad taxis) also do this. I'm not sure that this is a particularly autonomous-car-shaped sin. It depends on expectations. If the pitch is (and, let's face it - it is) that automs will be less violent, then this is a problem. If we're OK with them just adopting the existing levels of misery and death visited upon our communities by cars, then the upside is far less than we've been sold.

skybrian 6mo ago
How do you know it’s “violent?” It might not technically be allowed but that doesn’t mean they’re doing it unsafely. There’s quite a difference between violent and illegal and they shouldn’t be confused.
vlovich123 6mo ago
A) I see no evidence this is creating death or misery. Autonomous still seems safer. B) even if in this one aspect they remain status quo, overall it would still be an improvement.
- SpicyLemonZest 6mo ago
  The source article describes an incident where a cyclist was seriously injured after Waymo's cyclist detection system failed while it was parked in a bike lane, allowing the passenger to hit her with the door. I don't think this represents some terrible sin where Waymo executives should all go to prison, but I do think we can reasonably expect and if necessary demand that Waymo take action to prevent similar incidents in the future.
  - sigmar 6mo ago
    >allowing the passenger to hit her with the door. the bar is absurdly high if we're blaming the car manufacturer for mistakes human make after the car stops
  - jmalicki 6mo ago
    If the cyclist was doored by an exiting passenger, would t that imply it should further block the bike lane to increase safety as it is not safe for a bike to pass while a passenger is exiting? If the car door opening is what injuries the cyclist it wasn't really in the bike line very far.
  - dylan604 6mo ago
    > Waymo's cyclist detection system failed I did a quick search on this, but was nothing but PR articles about how they lower cyclist/pedestrian collisions. Are you suggesting the Waymo car sees oncoming cyclists and somehow prevents the rider from opening the door? This would be interesting in how it could be done. Does it indicate in any way that the door will not be able to be opened until the cyclist clears, or is the rider left wondering why the damn car won't let them out?
    - kotaKat 6mo ago
      It sees oncoming cyclists but only warns the passengers inside via visual cue on the displays and an audible cue through the speakers. Apparently external cues to the cyclist are also given that a door may open (blinking lights?)? https://waymo.com/community/articles/advocacy-meets-innovation-the-league-of-american-bicyclists/ https://waymo.com/community/articles/advocacy-meets-innovati...
    - reitzensteinm 6mo ago
      From my experience, a tiny alarm sounds, a voice says cyclist approaching and the door clicks to locked. At least I believe it did, I heard a sound. I didn't check the handle. I don't believe the car was specifically in a bike lane at this time but I'm new to the city and may have missed the markings.
    - SpicyLemonZest 6mo ago
      In general, Waymo keeps track of all nearby vehicles and pedestrians and shows them on the car's nav system. I've been in one before when it detected a cyclist coming from behind, and it gave clear warnings both audibly and visually, although I don't know whether it actually locked the door.
  - vlovich123 6mo ago
    It’s easy to skew perception with anecdotes when you don’t include anecdotes about the accepted status who. What I’m hearing is that the system that creates a higher safety bar failed and the result was the same as you’d get with a human driver. It’s fun to lie with anecdotes when you don’t include stories and statistics of uber passengers dooring bicyclists. See how easy it is to draw the wrong conclusion? It’s a big enough problem that personal injury industry actively seeks plaintiffs because there’s so many: https://www.personalinjurysandiego.org/practice-areas/rideshare-uber-lyft-bicycle-accident-california/ https://www.personalinjurysandiego.org/practice-areas/ridesh... https://saslawgroup.com/hit-by-an-uber-pedestrian-and-cyclist-rights/ https://saslawgroup.com/hit-by-an-uber-pedestrian-and-cyclis... https://www.bicyclelaw.com/about-bicycle-accidents-involving-uber-and-lyft-rideshare-vehicles/ https://www.bicyclelaw.com/about-bicycle-accidents-involving... From the last one: > As ride share vehicles have skyrocketed in popularity, we are increasingly seeing bicycle crashes involving ride share vehicles The conclusion itself is biased and wrong claiming that uber lacks the markings of cabs without actually presenting any evidence that cabs are involved in fewer such incidents per passenger driven. They’re also doing the same thing you’re doing but at least it’s likely a website by cab drivers looking to actively paint Uber in a bad light. Oh, and Waymo taxis are actually branded clearly as taxis thus by that argument already they outperform ride shares.
tjwebbnorfolk 6mo ago
I want to hear how you equate "misery and death" with "unloading a passenger in the bike lane for 30 seconds". I can't tell if you intend this a real analogy or if you are overcome with rage when thinking about motor vehicles
- brendoelfrendo 6mo ago
  Cars pulling into cycling lanes injure and kill cyclists. Simple as.
- ok_dad 6mo ago
  Pulling into the bike lane for 30 seconds causes bikers to have to unsafely pull around the car, possibly causing accidents. In some cities and lanes you may be endangering dozens of bikers during the 30 seconds. I had to commute by foot for two years into a city, and I have to say I understand the rage. Cars nearly killed me a dozen times and I was always more safe than the law required of me as a pedestrian. Most drivers don’t understand their power with today’s massive cars.
  - pandaman 6mo ago
    >Pulling into the bike lane for 30 seconds causes bikers to have to unsafely pull around the car Or, hear me out, they could stop if passing the car is unsafe.
    - ok_dad 6mo ago
      Victim blaming right there. They have as right to the lane, cars don’t.
      - pandaman 6mo ago
        Cars in London apparently have a right to pull over to drop and pick up passengers.
      - tjwebbnorfolk 6mo ago
        So you're advocating... what exactly? Crashing into the car on purpose because it's their right?
nandomrumber 6mo ago
Cars are violence now. What next?

by jMyles 6mo ago

skybrian 6mo ago

How do you know it’s “violent?” It might not technically be allowed but that doesn’t mean they’re doing it unsafely. There’s quite a difference between violent and illegal and they shouldn’t be confused.

vlovich123 6mo ago

A) I see no evidence this is creating death or misery. Autonomous still seems safer. B) even if in this one aspect they remain status quo, overall it would still be an improvement.

SpicyLemonZest 6mo ago
The source article describes an incident where a cyclist was seriously injured after Waymo's cyclist detection system failed while it was parked in a bike lane, allowing the passenger to hit her with the door. I don't think this represents some terrible sin where Waymo executives should all go to prison, but I do think we can reasonably expect and if necessary demand that Waymo take action to prevent similar incidents in the future.
- sigmar 6mo ago
  >allowing the passenger to hit her with the door. the bar is absurdly high if we're blaming the car manufacturer for mistakes human make after the car stops
- jmalicki 6mo ago
  If the cyclist was doored by an exiting passenger, would t that imply it should further block the bike lane to increase safety as it is not safe for a bike to pass while a passenger is exiting? If the car door opening is what injuries the cyclist it wasn't really in the bike line very far.
- dylan604 6mo ago
  > Waymo's cyclist detection system failed I did a quick search on this, but was nothing but PR articles about how they lower cyclist/pedestrian collisions. Are you suggesting the Waymo car sees oncoming cyclists and somehow prevents the rider from opening the door? This would be interesting in how it could be done. Does it indicate in any way that the door will not be able to be opened until the cyclist clears, or is the rider left wondering why the damn car won't let them out?
  - kotaKat 6mo ago
    It sees oncoming cyclists but only warns the passengers inside via visual cue on the displays and an audible cue through the speakers. Apparently external cues to the cyclist are also given that a door may open (blinking lights?)? https://waymo.com/community/articles/advocacy-meets-innovation-the-league-of-american-bicyclists/ https://waymo.com/community/articles/advocacy-meets-innovati...
  - reitzensteinm 6mo ago
    From my experience, a tiny alarm sounds, a voice says cyclist approaching and the door clicks to locked. At least I believe it did, I heard a sound. I didn't check the handle. I don't believe the car was specifically in a bike lane at this time but I'm new to the city and may have missed the markings.
  - SpicyLemonZest 6mo ago
    In general, Waymo keeps track of all nearby vehicles and pedestrians and shows them on the car's nav system. I've been in one before when it detected a cyclist coming from behind, and it gave clear warnings both audibly and visually, although I don't know whether it actually locked the door.
- vlovich123 6mo ago
  It’s easy to skew perception with anecdotes when you don’t include anecdotes about the accepted status who. What I’m hearing is that the system that creates a higher safety bar failed and the result was the same as you’d get with a human driver. It’s fun to lie with anecdotes when you don’t include stories and statistics of uber passengers dooring bicyclists. See how easy it is to draw the wrong conclusion? It’s a big enough problem that personal injury industry actively seeks plaintiffs because there’s so many: https://www.personalinjurysandiego.org/practice-areas/rideshare-uber-lyft-bicycle-accident-california/ https://www.personalinjurysandiego.org/practice-areas/ridesh... https://saslawgroup.com/hit-by-an-uber-pedestrian-and-cyclist-rights/ https://saslawgroup.com/hit-by-an-uber-pedestrian-and-cyclis... https://www.bicyclelaw.com/about-bicycle-accidents-involving-uber-and-lyft-rideshare-vehicles/ https://www.bicyclelaw.com/about-bicycle-accidents-involving... From the last one: > As ride share vehicles have skyrocketed in popularity, we are increasingly seeing bicycle crashes involving ride share vehicles The conclusion itself is biased and wrong claiming that uber lacks the markings of cabs without actually presenting any evidence that cabs are involved in fewer such incidents per passenger driven. They’re also doing the same thing you’re doing but at least it’s likely a website by cab drivers looking to actively paint Uber in a bad light. Oh, and Waymo taxis are actually branded clearly as taxis thus by that argument already they outperform ride shares.

tjwebbnorfolk 6mo ago

I want to hear how you equate "misery and death" with "unloading a passenger in the bike lane for 30 seconds". I can't tell if you intend this a real analogy or if you are overcome with rage when thinking about motor vehicles

brendoelfrendo 6mo ago
Cars pulling into cycling lanes injure and kill cyclists. Simple as.
ok_dad 6mo ago
Pulling into the bike lane for 30 seconds causes bikers to have to unsafely pull around the car, possibly causing accidents. In some cities and lanes you may be endangering dozens of bikers during the 30 seconds. I had to commute by foot for two years into a city, and I have to say I understand the rage. Cars nearly killed me a dozen times and I was always more safe than the law required of me as a pedestrian. Most drivers don’t understand their power with today’s massive cars.
- pandaman 6mo ago
  >Pulling into the bike lane for 30 seconds causes bikers to have to unsafely pull around the car Or, hear me out, they could stop if passing the car is unsafe.
  - ok_dad 6mo ago
    Victim blaming right there. They have as right to the lane, cars don’t.
    - pandaman 6mo ago
      Cars in London apparently have a right to pull over to drop and pick up passengers.
    - tjwebbnorfolk 6mo ago
      So you're advocating... what exactly? Crashing into the car on purpose because it's their right?

nandomrumber 6mo ago

Cars are violence now. What next?