5 ms·

I think you are wrong, for several reasons. From the human perspective, researchers are people, and they do have their incentives. Making a breakthrough, of an

I think you are wrong, for several reasons. From the human perspective, researchers are people, and they do have their incentives. Making a breakthrough, of any kind, is important for them - even if for their career (but many do genuinely care and want to help humanity as a whole). From marketing and sales perspective, look at what happen to pharma companies capitalization when Ozempic appeared: a relatively small Elly Lily suddenly got bigger then Merck, Novartis, Roche or Johnson & Johnson. You can hardly call it a long treatment plan with expensive drugs "till the end". Really, there is a lot of bad things going on in healthcare and pharma industry, but the conspiracy theory "they don't want to invent efficient drugs" really makes no sense when you dig deeper.

Closi 6mo ago
Plus even if it does involve expensive drugs and long term treatment, that would be a huge step towards cheap drugs and short term treatment. Lots of treatments start expensive and then come down in cost as competitors step in.
- jleyank 6mo ago
  Patents run out also.
SomaticPirate 6mo ago
I agree with you but Ozempic is a bad example here. Part of the reason it is so valuable is that patients usually must take it for the rest of their lives. Its actually the perfect example of “evil” pharma since patients slmost akways regain the weight if they stop taking it. This leads to dependence or people searching for grey market sources. An example of “good” pharma would be Hepatitis C. We can now cure that. Although, pharma is charging the lifetime equivalent in order to do that (a treatment can run over $100k and insurance balks at covering it) So pharma will absolutely develop a cure if they can. They however will still charge you as if you had to take a dose for the rest of your life.
- azan_ 6mo ago
  > I agree with you but Ozempic is a bad example here. Part of the reason it is so valuable is that patients usually must take it for the rest of their lives. Its actually the perfect example of “evil” pharma since patients slmost akways regain the weight if they stop taking it. This leads to dependence or people searching for grey market sources. Not really. Note that it's not taking ozempic for life vs taking nothing for life, but actually taking ozempic for life vs taking ozempic and 5 different medications for life when obesity related illnesses bite you in the ass. So generally ozempic still is "good" pharma (and the plot twist is that almost every pharma is good pharma!).
- plqbfbv 6mo ago
  > Part of the reason it is so valuable is that patients usually must take it for the rest of their lives. Well yes, Ozempic doesn't solve the habits of a bad diet. The weight rebound is surely due in little part to removal of hunger suppression as in "hormone rebound", but if you resume eating 5000+ kcal/day because you don't have something that keeps you from doing it, you'll end up in the same situation as before. Ozempic was never meant and is not going to fix your diet. That's a psychological and environmental problem.
- khuey 6mo ago
  It's ridiculous to say that pharma is "evil" simply because it isn't a one time treatment, especially when you don't know if a one time treatment is even biologically possible. The water company isn't evil for failing to provide me a single glass of water that meets my lifetime hydration requirements.
- naveen99 6mo ago
  Average person in the world earns about $300k in a lifetime. So it’s hard to charge more than that per person.
verisimi 6mo ago
Which illnesses have been cured? Diabetes, cancer? > From the human perspective, researchers are people, and they do have their incentives. Making a breakthrough, of any kind, is important for them - even if for their career (but many do genuinely care and want to help humanity as a whole). Researchers are people, but they are paid and directed. They can't go off and do what they like. The corporation directs them, and they are paid for their efforts. Researchers (and all working people) aren't doing what is right - they are doing what they are paid to do. All the financial upside for pharmaceuticals is in prolonged treatments. It is a 'long sickness' industry. This is perhaps too bitter a pill to swallow for most, so this is where marketing and education come in with the sugar.
- leetnewb 6mo ago
  Imagine your role is allocating spending on $10B/year of medical research and you are presented with two strategies: spend everything searching for the cure for one poorly understood condition, or allocate to treatments improving standard of care for 100 conditions. Improving standard of care for 100 is less risky/more profitable because you have more shots at an expensive process with a high failure rate. And it is a lower bar to improve patient care than to permanently fix a medical mystery. But there is another factor. Focusing on treatment/management over cure most likely maximizes the positive impact on patients within the the constraints you work under. There have been at least three new major treatments for a chronic thing I have that received FDA approval over my lifetime. Those treatments have had a massive impact on my quality of life, ability to have a career, etc. I don't believe that happens for me if we allocate to cures.
  - verisimi 6mo ago
    I'm genuinely glad you have new treatments and its improving your quality of life. The point I am making is that you are a/ not getting cured, and b/ paying a lot of money. The reason for this, is this is best strategy for maximising profits. Its really the exact same model as your local heroin/crack dealer. Please set me straight if those conditions differ in your case. Profits are what pharma companies want. The consumer is mostly labouring under the illusion that companies want the best for you. They are not your mum. They want what's best for them. And, most people would do the same - no one is gifting anyone health. All I'm saying is let's drop the illusions and fantasy and call a spade a spade.

Closi 6mo ago

Plus even if it does involve expensive drugs and long term treatment, that would be a huge step towards cheap drugs and short term treatment. Lots of treatments start expensive and then come down in cost as competitors step in.

jleyank 6mo ago
Patents run out also.

SomaticPirate 6mo ago

I agree with you but Ozempic is a bad example here. Part of the reason it is so valuable is that patients usually must take it for the rest of their lives. Its actually the perfect example of “evil” pharma since patients slmost akways regain the weight if they stop taking it. This leads to dependence or people searching for grey market sources. An example of “good” pharma would be Hepatitis C. We can now cure that. Although, pharma is charging the lifetime equivalent in order to do that (a treatment can run over $100k and insurance balks at covering it) So pharma will absolutely develop a cure if they can. They however will still charge you as if you had to take a dose for the rest of your life.

azan_ 6mo ago
> I agree with you but Ozempic is a bad example here. Part of the reason it is so valuable is that patients usually must take it for the rest of their lives. Its actually the perfect example of “evil” pharma since patients slmost akways regain the weight if they stop taking it. This leads to dependence or people searching for grey market sources. Not really. Note that it's not taking ozempic for life vs taking nothing for life, but actually taking ozempic for life vs taking ozempic and 5 different medications for life when obesity related illnesses bite you in the ass. So generally ozempic still is "good" pharma (and the plot twist is that almost every pharma is good pharma!).
plqbfbv 6mo ago
> Part of the reason it is so valuable is that patients usually must take it for the rest of their lives. Well yes, Ozempic doesn't solve the habits of a bad diet. The weight rebound is surely due in little part to removal of hunger suppression as in "hormone rebound", but if you resume eating 5000+ kcal/day because you don't have something that keeps you from doing it, you'll end up in the same situation as before. Ozempic was never meant and is not going to fix your diet. That's a psychological and environmental problem.
khuey 6mo ago
It's ridiculous to say that pharma is "evil" simply because it isn't a one time treatment, especially when you don't know if a one time treatment is even biologically possible. The water company isn't evil for failing to provide me a single glass of water that meets my lifetime hydration requirements.
naveen99 6mo ago
Average person in the world earns about $300k in a lifetime. So it’s hard to charge more than that per person.

verisimi 6mo ago

Which illnesses have been cured? Diabetes, cancer? > From the human perspective, researchers are people, and they do have their incentives. Making a breakthrough, of any kind, is important for them - even if for their career (but many do genuinely care and want to help humanity as a whole). Researchers are people, but they are paid and directed. They can't go off and do what they like. The corporation directs them, and they are paid for their efforts. Researchers (and all working people) aren't doing what is right - they are doing what they are paid to do. All the financial upside for pharmaceuticals is in prolonged treatments. It is a 'long sickness' industry. This is perhaps too bitter a pill to swallow for most, so this is where marketing and education come in with the sugar.

leetnewb 6mo ago
Imagine your role is allocating spending on $10B/year of medical research and you are presented with two strategies: spend everything searching for the cure for one poorly understood condition, or allocate to treatments improving standard of care for 100 conditions. Improving standard of care for 100 is less risky/more profitable because you have more shots at an expensive process with a high failure rate. And it is a lower bar to improve patient care than to permanently fix a medical mystery. But there is another factor. Focusing on treatment/management over cure most likely maximizes the positive impact on patients within the the constraints you work under. There have been at least three new major treatments for a chronic thing I have that received FDA approval over my lifetime. Those treatments have had a massive impact on my quality of life, ability to have a career, etc. I don't believe that happens for me if we allocate to cures.
- verisimi 6mo ago
  I'm genuinely glad you have new treatments and its improving your quality of life. The point I am making is that you are a/ not getting cured, and b/ paying a lot of money. The reason for this, is this is best strategy for maximising profits. Its really the exact same model as your local heroin/crack dealer. Please set me straight if those conditions differ in your case. Profits are what pharma companies want. The consumer is mostly labouring under the illusion that companies want the best for you. They are not your mum. They want what's best for them. And, most people would do the same - no one is gifting anyone health. All I'm saying is let's drop the illusions and fantasy and call a spade a spade.