5 ms·

I'd be genuinely curious what you could switch to that still has MV2 because, AFAIK, Firefox is the last holdout. Brave still allows you to install uBlock & s

by pogue 6mo ago

I'd be genuinely curious what you could switch to that still has MV2 because, AFAIK, Firefox is the last holdout. Brave still allows you to install uBlock & some other extensions that should technically not be supported under MV3, but they still ship it with support for those. Just heard about Helium browser, which is just dechromium + uBlock and it's still beta.

cookiengineer 6mo ago
> I'd be genuinely curious what you could switch to that still has MV2 because, AFAIK, Firefox is the last holdout. My last hope is ladybird right now, I don't use Firefox or Chrome as my main browsers anymore, and use them only within temporary sandboxes. Without history, without cookies, without logins for the most part.
- pogue 6mo ago
  You use ladybird as your primary web browser? And it works?
  - cookiengineer 6mo ago
    For the most part, it doesn't. It's not a consumer ready browser, but a pretty nice little rendering engine. If you use ladybird as bindings, it's a bit unstable right now because they are refactoring a lot of parts in the codebase. I built my own tools on top of it, mostly to use internet websites and selfhosted kiwix archives with my local agentic env. I guess what I am saying is that I don't have a primary browser anymore. Not a browser where I just can trust it that it doesn't do shit with my data. Being able to selfhost kiwix is a superb internet experience if you build your own search dashboard for it, I can fully recommend it. Have to merge my things upstream with ZIMdex when I have the time (probably around June). [1] WIP https://github.com/cookiengineer/exocomp https://github.com/cookiengineer/exocomp [2] WIP https://github.com/cookiengineer/zimdex https://github.com/cookiengineer/zimdex
    - tgv 6mo ago
      It seems to me that --unless you really, strictly compartimentalize your browser usage--, using multiple browsers will only supply your data to more parties.
- el_io 6mo ago
  Ladybird supports MV2? I had no idea they have extensions.
  - laserbeam 6mo ago
    Ladybird is many years away from being usable by a casual human. The hope is it turns out to be a great browser eventually.
- Zardoz84 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - cookiengineer 6mo ago
    > Good luck with the main developer being in the alt right. Sources? I can't find anything on that via google/ddg (Germany) edit: oof. [1] https://drewdevault.com/blog/Cloudflare-and-fascists/ https://drewdevault.com/blog/Cloudflare-and-fascists/
    - imtringued 6mo ago
      Isn't this blog post more evidence that drewdevault became an extreme leftist? I mean he's basically going off a checklist of leftist stereotypes here and trying to check as many of them as possible. Meanwhile the other guy he's criticising is literally just a standard right-wing conservative, not far right, not alt right, just the regular kind. The far right I've seen is basically beyond the idea of being merely anti-immigration, they demand ICE style mass deportations immediately and in every country. If both of them met in a bar through sheer coincidence, I'd expect drewdevault to start the fight.
      - HauntingPin 6mo ago
        Sorry, but painting these people as "standard right-wing" is just evidence for the shifting of the Overton window further to the right. White replacement theory and expressing support for an alt-right ideologue who manipulated people with bad faith, dishonest and downright monstrous arguments is not "standard right-wing". Charlie Kirk was for mass deportation. He didn't even hide it. He said it openly. How do you come off saying that these people aren't far-right or alt-right when they are unabashedly so?
        krapp 6mo ago
        >White replacement theory and expressing support for an alt-right ideologue who manipulated people with bad faith, dishonest and downright monstrous arguments is not "standard right-wing". It is now. That's what the shifting of the Overton Window and normalization of right-wing ideology does. These aren't fringe beliefs anymore, they're commonly held, mainstream right-wing views. They're policy within the US government. Charlie Kirk was treated as a martyr and a hero by the administration. He was treated with more dignity and respect than war veterans. The DHS posts memes about mass deportation. The "far right" and "alt-right" no longer exist. Those labels are no longer useful and no longer describe reality.
nuker 6mo ago
> Firefox is the last holdout. Nope, FF is being infiltrated by adtech for last year or two. Last holdout is Safari now :)
- rs_rs_rs_rs_rs 6mo ago
  >Last holdout is Safari now Why do people say crap like this... Safari was the first browser to completely remove mv2. From all the major browsers Safari has the worse adblocking experience and support for adblocking extensions...
  - nuker 6mo ago
    > Why do people say crap like this... 1. Third-party cookie blocking by default — 2003 (Safari 1.0); industry first. 2. Intelligent Tracking Prevention (ITP), using on-device machine learning to identify and limit cross-site trackers — 2017; industry first. 3. Storage Access API prompts for embedded third-party content (e.g., social login widgets) — 2018 (ITP 2.0); industry first (co-developed by WebKit, later adopted as a web standard). 4. Full third-party cookie blocking (no exceptions) — 2020 (ITP in Safari 13.1); industry first for a major browser.
    - nottorp 6mo ago
      That's what the marketing department says. Ad/tracking blocking is one of the things that can only be trusted if it's open source, i.e. uBlock Origin. By the way, does this Adblock Engine actually block trackers? Or it just stops the ads from displaying?
      - saagarjha 6mo ago
        ITP is mostly part of WebKit and open source.
    - potatoproduct 6mo ago
      Apple only does things to progress their own business model. Apple failed at becoming an ad business so they pivoted to subscriptions and app revenue. Now they are building an ad business. Just look at their ad revenue.
Pay08 6mo ago
I don't know if Edge supports MV2, but they do have uBlock available and it works just as well as on Firefox.
- skeeter2020 6mo ago
  It may look like it works "just as well" but that's not true. There are numerous things that impact performance and effectiveness that are not possible with chromium-based browsers, or at least have to be done inefficiently, including * pre-fetching * html filtering * use of WebAssembly * data compression and private/incognito mode
  - Pay08 6mo ago
    Edge has its own extension API in addition to the Chromium one, it's possible that they've managed to mitigate or eliminate these problems.
feverzsj 6mo ago
Helium still supports MV2, because the upstream hasn't removed related code. They basically turn on/off some macros to enable MV2 again. And this won't last long for sure.
raudette 6mo ago
Safari still supports MV2

by pogue 6mo ago

cookiengineer 6mo ago

> I'd be genuinely curious what you could switch to that still has MV2 because, AFAIK, Firefox is the last holdout. My last hope is ladybird right now, I don't use Firefox or Chrome as my main browsers anymore, and use them only within temporary sandboxes. Without history, without cookies, without logins for the most part.

pogue 6mo ago
You use ladybird as your primary web browser? And it works?
- cookiengineer 6mo ago
  For the most part, it doesn't. It's not a consumer ready browser, but a pretty nice little rendering engine. If you use ladybird as bindings, it's a bit unstable right now because they are refactoring a lot of parts in the codebase. I built my own tools on top of it, mostly to use internet websites and selfhosted kiwix archives with my local agentic env. I guess what I am saying is that I don't have a primary browser anymore. Not a browser where I just can trust it that it doesn't do shit with my data. Being able to selfhost kiwix is a superb internet experience if you build your own search dashboard for it, I can fully recommend it. Have to merge my things upstream with ZIMdex when I have the time (probably around June). [1] WIP https://github.com/cookiengineer/exocomp https://github.com/cookiengineer/exocomp [2] WIP https://github.com/cookiengineer/zimdex https://github.com/cookiengineer/zimdex
  - tgv 6mo ago
    It seems to me that --unless you really, strictly compartimentalize your browser usage--, using multiple browsers will only supply your data to more parties.
el_io 6mo ago
Ladybird supports MV2? I had no idea they have extensions.
- laserbeam 6mo ago
  Ladybird is many years away from being usable by a casual human. The hope is it turns out to be a great browser eventually.
Zardoz84 6mo ago
[flagged]
- cookiengineer 6mo ago
  > Good luck with the main developer being in the alt right. Sources? I can't find anything on that via google/ddg (Germany) edit: oof. [1] https://drewdevault.com/blog/Cloudflare-and-fascists/ https://drewdevault.com/blog/Cloudflare-and-fascists/
  - imtringued 6mo ago
    Isn't this blog post more evidence that drewdevault became an extreme leftist? I mean he's basically going off a checklist of leftist stereotypes here and trying to check as many of them as possible. Meanwhile the other guy he's criticising is literally just a standard right-wing conservative, not far right, not alt right, just the regular kind. The far right I've seen is basically beyond the idea of being merely anti-immigration, they demand ICE style mass deportations immediately and in every country. If both of them met in a bar through sheer coincidence, I'd expect drewdevault to start the fight.
    - HauntingPin 6mo ago
      Sorry, but painting these people as "standard right-wing" is just evidence for the shifting of the Overton window further to the right. White replacement theory and expressing support for an alt-right ideologue who manipulated people with bad faith, dishonest and downright monstrous arguments is not "standard right-wing". Charlie Kirk was for mass deportation. He didn't even hide it. He said it openly. How do you come off saying that these people aren't far-right or alt-right when they are unabashedly so?
      - krapp 6mo ago
        >White replacement theory and expressing support for an alt-right ideologue who manipulated people with bad faith, dishonest and downright monstrous arguments is not "standard right-wing". It is now. That's what the shifting of the Overton Window and normalization of right-wing ideology does. These aren't fringe beliefs anymore, they're commonly held, mainstream right-wing views. They're policy within the US government. Charlie Kirk was treated as a martyr and a hero by the administration. He was treated with more dignity and respect than war veterans. The DHS posts memes about mass deportation. The "far right" and "alt-right" no longer exist. Those labels are no longer useful and no longer describe reality.

nuker 6mo ago

> Firefox is the last holdout. Nope, FF is being infiltrated by adtech for last year or two. Last holdout is Safari now :)

rs_rs_rs_rs_rs 6mo ago
>Last holdout is Safari now Why do people say crap like this... Safari was the first browser to completely remove mv2. From all the major browsers Safari has the worse adblocking experience and support for adblocking extensions...
- nuker 6mo ago
  > Why do people say crap like this... 1. Third-party cookie blocking by default — 2003 (Safari 1.0); industry first. 2. Intelligent Tracking Prevention (ITP), using on-device machine learning to identify and limit cross-site trackers — 2017; industry first. 3. Storage Access API prompts for embedded third-party content (e.g., social login widgets) — 2018 (ITP 2.0); industry first (co-developed by WebKit, later adopted as a web standard). 4. Full third-party cookie blocking (no exceptions) — 2020 (ITP in Safari 13.1); industry first for a major browser.
  - nottorp 6mo ago
    That's what the marketing department says. Ad/tracking blocking is one of the things that can only be trusted if it's open source, i.e. uBlock Origin. By the way, does this Adblock Engine actually block trackers? Or it just stops the ads from displaying?
    - saagarjha 6mo ago
      ITP is mostly part of WebKit and open source.
  - potatoproduct 6mo ago
    Apple only does things to progress their own business model. Apple failed at becoming an ad business so they pivoted to subscriptions and app revenue. Now they are building an ad business. Just look at their ad revenue.

Pay08 6mo ago

I don't know if Edge supports MV2, but they do have uBlock available and it works just as well as on Firefox.

skeeter2020 6mo ago
It may look like it works "just as well" but that's not true. There are numerous things that impact performance and effectiveness that are not possible with chromium-based browsers, or at least have to be done inefficiently, including * pre-fetching * html filtering * use of WebAssembly * data compression and private/incognito mode
- Pay08 6mo ago
  Edge has its own extension API in addition to the Chromium one, it's possible that they've managed to mitigate or eliminate these problems.

feverzsj 6mo ago

Helium still supports MV2, because the upstream hasn't removed related code. They basically turn on/off some macros to enable MV2 again. And this won't last long for sure.

raudette 6mo ago

Safari still supports MV2