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> users should be curious and actively attempting to understand how it works Have you ever talked with users? > this is an endless job Indeed. If we spend al

> users should be curious and actively attempting to understand how it works Have you ever talked with users? > this is an endless job Indeed. If we spend all our time learning what changed with all our tooling when it changes without proper documentation then we spend all our working lives keeping up instead of doing our actual jobs.

Octoth0rpe 6mo ago
There are general users of the average SaaS, and there are claude code users. There's no doubt in my mind that our expectations should be somewhat higher for CC users re: memory. I'm personally not completely convinced that cache eviction should be part of their thought process while using CC, but it's not _that_ much of a stretch.
- abustamam 6mo ago
  Personally I've never thought about cache eviction as it pertains to CC. It's just not something that I ever needed to think about. Maybe I'm just not a power user but I just use the product the way I want to and it just works.
- troupo 6mo ago
  Anthropic literally advertises long sessions, 1M context, high reasoning etc. And then their vibe-coders tell us that we are to blame for using the product exactly as advertised: https://x.com/lydiahallie/status/2039800718371307603 https://x.com/lydiahallie/status/2039800718371307603 while silently changing how the product works. Please stop defending hapless innocent corporations.
  - jghn 6mo ago
    This oversells how obfuscated it is. I'm far from a power user, and the opposite of a vibe coder. Yet I noticed the effect on my own just from general usage. If I can do it, anyone can do it.
    - taormina 6mo ago
      Listen, no one cares if you think you’re smart for seeing through the lies of their marketing team. You’re being intentionally obtuse.
      - jghn 6mo ago
        My point is the opposite. I don't think my observation was smart, and I'm surprised to so many people here, a venue with a lot of people who use this stuff far more than I do, think it wasn't an easy to grok thing.
        taormina 6mo ago
        You’re still intentionally missing the point. Everyone knows they are lying. It doesn’t excuse the lies!
        jghn 6mo ago
        I’m not. Why would anyone believe marketing speak for any product? One should always assume that at best they’re fluffing their product up and more likely that they’re telling straight up lies
        troupo 6mo ago
        1. False advertisement is a thing, to the point there are laws against it 2. They were caught blatantly lying, and you're literally telling everyone it's the users' fault for not digging into the black box that is Claude Code (and more so Anthropic's servers) and figuring its behavior for themselves. A behavior that suddenly changed on a March day [1] and which previously very few people ever needed to investigate. [1] https://x.com/levelsio/status/2029307862493618290 https://x.com/levelsio/status/2029307862493618290
        jghn 6mo ago
        I'm not saying this is a great state of affairs. But I'm saying that it's so pervasive in daily life that yes, at least part of the blame lies on users for not taking this into account. As a developer it's important to at least try to understand the tools and libraries on which one relies. Relying on magic black boxes is not a good plan on the user's part, and they need to be defensive about this. Too many developers have been more than happy to hand the keys over to the AI assistants and hope for the best. Also it wasn't completely undocumented, rather it was hiding in not-quite-plain sight. Which itself is a bit duplicitous, but again something that's far from unique on the part of Anthropic.
- redsocksfan45 6mo ago
  [dead]
jghn 6mo ago
> Have you ever talked with users? I believe if one were to read my post it'd have been clear that I *am* a user. This *is* "hacker" news after all. I think it's a safe assumption that people sitting here discussing CC are an inquisitive sort who want to understand what's under the hood of their tools and are likely to put in some extra time to figure it out.
- abustamam 6mo ago
  We're inquisitive but at the end of the day many of us just want to get our work done. If it's a toy project, sure. Tinker away, dissect away. When my boss is breathing down my neck on why a feature is taking so long? No time for inquiries.

Octoth0rpe 6mo ago

There are general users of the average SaaS, and there are claude code users. There's no doubt in my mind that our expectations should be somewhat higher for CC users re: memory. I'm personally not completely convinced that cache eviction should be part of their thought process while using CC, but it's not _that_ much of a stretch.

abustamam 6mo ago
Personally I've never thought about cache eviction as it pertains to CC. It's just not something that I ever needed to think about. Maybe I'm just not a power user but I just use the product the way I want to and it just works.
troupo 6mo ago
Anthropic literally advertises long sessions, 1M context, high reasoning etc. And then their vibe-coders tell us that we are to blame for using the product exactly as advertised: https://x.com/lydiahallie/status/2039800718371307603 https://x.com/lydiahallie/status/2039800718371307603 while silently changing how the product works. Please stop defending hapless innocent corporations.
- jghn 6mo ago
  This oversells how obfuscated it is. I'm far from a power user, and the opposite of a vibe coder. Yet I noticed the effect on my own just from general usage. If I can do it, anyone can do it.
  - taormina 6mo ago
    Listen, no one cares if you think you’re smart for seeing through the lies of their marketing team. You’re being intentionally obtuse.
    - jghn 6mo ago
      My point is the opposite. I don't think my observation was smart, and I'm surprised to so many people here, a venue with a lot of people who use this stuff far more than I do, think it wasn't an easy to grok thing.
      - taormina 6mo ago
        You’re still intentionally missing the point. Everyone knows they are lying. It doesn’t excuse the lies!
        jghn 6mo ago
        I’m not. Why would anyone believe marketing speak for any product? One should always assume that at best they’re fluffing their product up and more likely that they’re telling straight up lies
        troupo 6mo ago
        1. False advertisement is a thing, to the point there are laws against it 2. They were caught blatantly lying, and you're literally telling everyone it's the users' fault for not digging into the black box that is Claude Code (and more so Anthropic's servers) and figuring its behavior for themselves. A behavior that suddenly changed on a March day [1] and which previously very few people ever needed to investigate. [1] https://x.com/levelsio/status/2029307862493618290 https://x.com/levelsio/status/2029307862493618290
        jghn 6mo ago
        I'm not saying this is a great state of affairs. But I'm saying that it's so pervasive in daily life that yes, at least part of the blame lies on users for not taking this into account. As a developer it's important to at least try to understand the tools and libraries on which one relies. Relying on magic black boxes is not a good plan on the user's part, and they need to be defensive about this. Too many developers have been more than happy to hand the keys over to the AI assistants and hope for the best. Also it wasn't completely undocumented, rather it was hiding in not-quite-plain sight. Which itself is a bit duplicitous, but again something that's far from unique on the part of Anthropic.
redsocksfan45 6mo ago
[dead]

jghn 6mo ago

> Have you ever talked with users? I believe if one were to read my post it'd have been clear that I *am* a user. This *is* "hacker" news after all. I think it's a safe assumption that people sitting here discussing CC are an inquisitive sort who want to understand what's under the hood of their tools and are likely to put in some extra time to figure it out.

abustamam 6mo ago
We're inquisitive but at the end of the day many of us just want to get our work done. If it's a toy project, sure. Tinker away, dissect away. When my boss is breathing down my neck on why a feature is taking so long? No time for inquiries.