5 ms·

The H-1B visa has got to go

5 points by raju 18y ago

DavidPP 18y ago
I'm not saying he is wrong, and since I'm not from (or in) the USA, I can't really argue. But from my point of view, the author present alot of facts like : "In the last 10 years or so, the number of people forced to work as contractors has increased exponentially." without offering any "hard" data or links to his sources. Is he using real data as a basis for his arguments?
lionhearted 18y ago
"Tell the president, your senators, and your representatives that reform -- meaning a reduction or suspension now, and a more rational approach to avoiding their use to lower wages in the future -- of H-1B can no longer wait. Our jobs depend on it." Is anyone going to buy into this garbage? There is an infinite amount of work that can be done. The world is in no danger of running out of work, jobs, or good jobs. The United States is much stronger because many of the most talented people want to come work here. And here's the big thing the author misses with his rah-rah-keep-our-jobs sentiment: Additional workers in an economy create NEW jobs. Simple example: Town of 100. 10 new people move into the town. Population now 110. They create additional demand for food, housing, entertainment, and other services. So the restaurants hire 10% more cooks and waitresses, the builder hires 10% more construction workers, and the bars hire 10% more bartenders. There's more openings for plumbers, maintenance men, and new businesses. Since there's more demand for people, businesses pay a bit more for them - now these people have money. Some of their money they spend on computing/technology - which creates more money for R&D, engineering, design, coding, etc. Trying to limit highly skilled people from coming into your country is a really, really dumb idea. If some percent of the H-1 program is being used to get unskilled workers over to the USA, refine that. But I'll tell you - a good friend of mine just got her green card after working in medical devices on an H1-1B for years here in the USA. She speaks fluent Japanese and near-native English and has made a positive difference in New York City's medical community. Then she spends money eating out, on fashion and handbags and salons, on books and movies and DVDs and Broadway, and all sorts of other great things. She makes her $60,000 per year or whatever, and spends $55,000 back into the American economy, creating jobs for people across all social classes. Those people then have more money to spend in all sorts of sectors - including technology. The more talented people in America, the better.
- joe_the_user 18y ago
  I am for more immigration. My father was immigrant to the US. The H1b program is slanted against both immigrants and the native programmers. Against the first by making them depend on a particular company and against the second by making them compete against the first. Let programmers immigrate to the US based only on their skills and then let them both compete for jobs and let the companies compete for their skills.
lionhearted 18y ago
Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Brin#Early_life_and_education http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Brin#Early_life_and_educ... I'm glad Sergey's father and mother were allowed to immigrate to the USA. However, it's too bad that his Russian parents have stolen good jobs while there's unemployed Americans: "His father is a mathematics professor at the University of Maryland, and his mother is a research scientist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center." I mean, there's unemployed mathematicians and research scientists right here in the USA, right? Why should these Russians be allowed to come in and take our jobs? ...I want as many intelligent, hard working people as I can find in a company I run, and in a country that I want to see grow. Take a look at that Wikipedia link at what a nightmare is what for the Brin family in Russia - thank goodness we didn't have shortsighted people trying to lock them out to "preserve the jobs here", or who knows how many fewer great jobs would've been created, and how much less useful and easy to navigate the internet would be.
lionhearted 18y ago
I feel pretty strongly about this one, and pretty confident in my assessment that more immigration of talented people is good for America. So instead of just commenting here, I took the time to write the author, hoping that I could start a dialogue and maybe understand where he's coming from and show him the other side of the story. Here's what I wrote: -- Hi Bill, I read your article about H1-B visas on Info World. I came from Hacker News, a great community where we share and talk about the newest articles in technology. I wanted to share a perspective I've got with you on visas, because maybe I have a bit of a unique one. My first studies before changing majors was in economics, and later I've done work in many countries around the world. In the last few years, I've worked or spent significant time in the United States, Canada, England, Ireland, Spain, Holland, Sweden, Singapore, Malaysia, China, Japan, and Dubai among other places. I'm an American myself, and I've got many American and international friends in lots of industries. With a bit of background in economics and international business, I've come to think that having as many smart, hard-working people in the United States as possible is good for the country. I'll give you an example: A friend of mine in New York just got her green card. She's got two degrees, speaks fluent Japanese and near-native English, and works in medical devices. She'd been on an H-1B visa before getting her green card. The USA is clearly better for her being here: She's done great work in the medical community in New York, and - this is another great part - she's actually created wealth and jobs in New York City. She saves a bit of her paycheck - the rest she spends on the things people spend on: Rent and groceries, movies and clothing, the salon and handbags, occasionally a class, public transit and taxis, and everything a standard American gal would spend on. Her work in medical devices has saved lives, people who can go on and be productive, and those people's insurance companies have paid her company for the technology. This means the company can hire more people into R&D, engineering, and support. The people who owe their lives to her can continue working and making money, and spending that money - thus creating new jobs. I think the biggest potential issue with the H1-B program is that employees are bound to a particular company once hired, but it looks like at least the major companies pay their foreign employees on par with American workers. That means they're not hiring to keep wages down, but instead to get the best people. Great people in technology are able to find jobs quickly - there's a demand for them. But there's also genius-level people with amazing work ethics outside of the States that would love to come here and thrive. We want those people in America. A final thought: Google co-founder Sergey Brin's parents immigrated to the United States when he was six years old from Russia. Currently, his father is a math professor at the University of Maryland, and his mother is a research scientist at NASA. Those are two jobs - math professor and research scientist - that could've been held by American citizens that instead went to newer immigrants. But how much better is the world because Brin's family worked hard to come here, worked hard in their jobs, raised Sergey well, and he created Google? You might have short term gains in helping people find jobs by locking out talented, hard working immigrats, but what do you give up for the future? I say - Open the doors to the world's best and brightest, and we'l come out with the most propsersity, good jobs, and amazing lives that we can. Thank you for your time, and best wishes, Sebastian Marshall
medianama 18y ago
I am top 0.1% in India (and anywhere in the world). I missed out on H1b last year because the quota (65k) got filled in a day or so. and I said - f@#k America...your loss, not mine

5 points by raju 18y ago

I'm not saying he is wrong, and since I'm not from (or in) the USA, I can't really argue. But from my point of view, the author present alot of facts like : "In the last 10 years or so, the number of people forced to work as contractors has increased exponentially." without offering any "hard" data or links to his sources. Is he using real data as a basis for his arguments?

lionhearted 18y ago

"Tell the president, your senators, and your representatives that reform -- meaning a reduction or suspension now, and a more rational approach to avoiding their use to lower wages in the future -- of H-1B can no longer wait. Our jobs depend on it." Is anyone going to buy into this garbage? There is an infinite amount of work that can be done. The world is in no danger of running out of work, jobs, or good jobs. The United States is much stronger because many of the most talented people want to come work here. And here's the big thing the author misses with his rah-rah-keep-our-jobs sentiment: Additional workers in an economy create NEW jobs. Simple example: Town of 100. 10 new people move into the town. Population now 110. They create additional demand for food, housing, entertainment, and other services. So the restaurants hire 10% more cooks and waitresses, the builder hires 10% more construction workers, and the bars hire 10% more bartenders. There's more openings for plumbers, maintenance men, and new businesses. Since there's more demand for people, businesses pay a bit more for them - now these people have money. Some of their money they spend on computing/technology - which creates more money for R&D, engineering, design, coding, etc. Trying to limit highly skilled people from coming into your country is a really, really dumb idea. If some percent of the H-1 program is being used to get unskilled workers over to the USA, refine that. But I'll tell you - a good friend of mine just got her green card after working in medical devices on an H1-1B for years here in the USA. She speaks fluent Japanese and near-native English and has made a positive difference in New York City's medical community. Then she spends money eating out, on fashion and handbags and salons, on books and movies and DVDs and Broadway, and all sorts of other great things. She makes her $60,000 per year or whatever, and spends $55,000 back into the American economy, creating jobs for people across all social classes. Those people then have more money to spend in all sorts of sectors - including technology. The more talented people in America, the better.

joe_the_user 18y ago
I am for more immigration. My father was immigrant to the US. The H1b program is slanted against both immigrants and the native programmers. Against the first by making them depend on a particular company and against the second by making them compete against the first. Let programmers immigrate to the US based only on their skills and then let them both compete for jobs and let the companies compete for their skills.

lionhearted 18y ago

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Brin#Early_life_and_education http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Brin#Early_life_and_educ... I'm glad Sergey's father and mother were allowed to immigrate to the USA. However, it's too bad that his Russian parents have stolen good jobs while there's unemployed Americans: "His father is a mathematics professor at the University of Maryland, and his mother is a research scientist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center." I mean, there's unemployed mathematicians and research scientists right here in the USA, right? Why should these Russians be allowed to come in and take our jobs? ...I want as many intelligent, hard working people as I can find in a company I run, and in a country that I want to see grow. Take a look at that Wikipedia link at what a nightmare is what for the Brin family in Russia - thank goodness we didn't have shortsighted people trying to lock them out to "preserve the jobs here", or who knows how many fewer great jobs would've been created, and how much less useful and easy to navigate the internet would be.

lionhearted 18y ago

I feel pretty strongly about this one, and pretty confident in my assessment that more immigration of talented people is good for America. So instead of just commenting here, I took the time to write the author, hoping that I could start a dialogue and maybe understand where he's coming from and show him the other side of the story. Here's what I wrote: -- Hi Bill, I read your article about H1-B visas on Info World. I came from Hacker News, a great community where we share and talk about the newest articles in technology. I wanted to share a perspective I've got with you on visas, because maybe I have a bit of a unique one. My first studies before changing majors was in economics, and later I've done work in many countries around the world. In the last few years, I've worked or spent significant time in the United States, Canada, England, Ireland, Spain, Holland, Sweden, Singapore, Malaysia, China, Japan, and Dubai among other places. I'm an American myself, and I've got many American and international friends in lots of industries. With a bit of background in economics and international business, I've come to think that having as many smart, hard-working people in the United States as possible is good for the country. I'll give you an example: A friend of mine in New York just got her green card. She's got two degrees, speaks fluent Japanese and near-native English, and works in medical devices. She'd been on an H-1B visa before getting her green card. The USA is clearly better for her being here: She's done great work in the medical community in New York, and - this is another great part - she's actually created wealth and jobs in New York City. She saves a bit of her paycheck - the rest she spends on the things people spend on: Rent and groceries, movies and clothing, the salon and handbags, occasionally a class, public transit and taxis, and everything a standard American gal would spend on. Her work in medical devices has saved lives, people who can go on and be productive, and those people's insurance companies have paid her company for the technology. This means the company can hire more people into R&D, engineering, and support. The people who owe their lives to her can continue working and making money, and spending that money - thus creating new jobs. I think the biggest potential issue with the H1-B program is that employees are bound to a particular company once hired, but it looks like at least the major companies pay their foreign employees on par with American workers. That means they're not hiring to keep wages down, but instead to get the best people. Great people in technology are able to find jobs quickly - there's a demand for them. But there's also genius-level people with amazing work ethics outside of the States that would love to come here and thrive. We want those people in America. A final thought: Google co-founder Sergey Brin's parents immigrated to the United States when he was six years old from Russia. Currently, his father is a math professor at the University of Maryland, and his mother is a research scientist at NASA. Those are two jobs - math professor and research scientist - that could've been held by American citizens that instead went to newer immigrants. But how much better is the world because Brin's family worked hard to come here, worked hard in their jobs, raised Sergey well, and he created Google? You might have short term gains in helping people find jobs by locking out talented, hard working immigrats, but what do you give up for the future? I say - Open the doors to the world's best and brightest, and we'l come out with the most propsersity, good jobs, and amazing lives that we can. Thank you for your time, and best wishes, Sebastian Marshall

medianama 18y ago

I am top 0.1% in India (and anywhere in the world). I missed out on H1b last year because the quota (65k) got filled in a day or so. and I said - f@#k America...your loss, not mine