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"Sonnet sees the same two “obvious” bugs. It just cannot close the exploitation step. Mythos’s entire frontier advantage over the prior model is therefore bupki

"Sonnet sees the same two “obvious” bugs. It just cannot close the exploitation step. Mythos’s entire frontier advantage over the prior model is therefore bupkis." What a bizarre conclusion. It "just" cannot close the exploitation step? "Just?" Developing the working exploit is the hardest part, not finding the bugs. A self-proclaimed security professional should know this. How is this stuff even making it to the top of HN? Is it just the trendy Anthropic hate? I wonder if these folks will publicly walk back their statements if Mythos turns out to be legit.

vmaurin 6mo ago
I wonder if these fanboys will publicly walk back their statements if Mythos turns out to BS. Remember, in French, mythos is short for mythomanes that means "pathological liars"
- solenoid0937 6mo ago
  Will absolutely walk back, but I simply don't think the Linux Foundation, Apple, etc are lying when they are calling Mythos a genuine issue. There is healthy skepticism and then there is sticking your head in the sand. When companies and orgs with no financial interest in Anthropic issue a joint statement describing a problem, it is likely that the problem is real (unless you go off into wacky conspiracy territory.)
  - Pay08 6mo ago
    Has an actual Linux dev said anything about it?
    - cassianoleal 6mo ago
      Or Apple, or any of the other organisations mentioned on the marketing piece?
      - Milpotel 6mo ago
        Mozilla has: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/firefox/ai-security-zero-day-vulnerabilities/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/firefox/ai-security-zero-day-vul...
        cassianoleal 6mo ago
        Thank you! I had missed that one, and it's an excellent read!
BoorishBears 6mo ago
We already have access to a smaller version of the Mythos tier with Opus 4.7: based on the usual delta between the full fat models and their distills, do you really think Mythos breaks cybersecurity? It's a good model update. We've had these before, and it looks like OpenAI is gearing up to match it this week. - Mythos launch has felt like a showsman overlplaying their hand. Opus 4.5 put them in an awkward position after everyone went Opus-only and suddenly Sonnet's quota was getting treated like you were asking people to use Haiku. So a new pretraining run completes and instead of just releasing it as Opus 5, they stick the model in a new tier and name it Mythos Preview, while simultaneously launching Project Glasswing to literally build a mythos around the model. Some people are even confusing it for some sort of completely new paradigm of model centered on cybersecurity not realizing it's 'just' a new model tier, and the cybersecurity stuff is separate. While Mythos Preview is simmering a Sonnet-sized distill gets launched as Opus 4.7, at Opus prices, and fixes the margins and compute needs of the Opus tier again. Improved pretraining + progress on RL allows it to compete even though it's a smaller model, but some things still regress like understanding nuance (hence the regression on Tau bench and agentic search) - It's clear they plan to price Mythos like they used to price Opus (so high that you don't see it as a strict replacement for the smaller tiers) and heal the compute crunch just a tad. The main problem is OpenAI doesn't have to play these games. They have compute, and GPT-5 is already a very parameter efficient model so they're just going to release their model without the fanfare and mystery. Mythos might get deflated before they even get to cash in on all the fanfare they created. Unfortunate timing really (if you're Anthropic)
- solenoid0937 6mo ago
  If Glasswing was a marketing exercise for Anthropic, why did Linux Foundation issue a joint statement with them? What about Apple? Conspiracy theories aside - what's your Occam's Razor explanation?
  - petesergeant 6mo ago
    You'd look like an idiot for turning down Anthropic's help, but if Anthropic are over-blowing it, you probably won't have any reputational harm.
EE84M3i 6mo ago
I don't think there is a general consensus in the security community that finding bugs is easier than writing exploits.
- solenoid0937 6mo ago
  It definitely is. You can use all sorts of vuln scanners to find vulns. Most codebases have vulns, and most vulns aren't even reachable. The hard part is chaining them together in a fire-and-forget exploit that gets you what you want from the target.
  - Guvante 6mo ago
    Isn't breaking the sandbox the hard part? RCE is effectively "can run code" which is just JavaScript if you ignore the sandbox.
redanddead 6mo ago
you think anthropic didn't earn their hate?
- halJordan 6mo ago
  Most normal people: "Only you decide what you feel." HN busybodies: "You have forced me to hate you, im an incapable child"
  - queenkjuul 6mo ago
    They said earned, not forced

vmaurin 6mo ago

I wonder if these fanboys will publicly walk back their statements if Mythos turns out to BS. Remember, in French, mythos is short for mythomanes that means "pathological liars"

solenoid0937 6mo ago
Will absolutely walk back, but I simply don't think the Linux Foundation, Apple, etc are lying when they are calling Mythos a genuine issue. There is healthy skepticism and then there is sticking your head in the sand. When companies and orgs with no financial interest in Anthropic issue a joint statement describing a problem, it is likely that the problem is real (unless you go off into wacky conspiracy territory.)
- Pay08 6mo ago
  Has an actual Linux dev said anything about it?
  - cassianoleal 6mo ago
    Or Apple, or any of the other organisations mentioned on the marketing piece?
    - Milpotel 6mo ago
      Mozilla has: https://blog.mozilla.org/en/firefox/ai-security-zero-day-vulnerabilities/ https://blog.mozilla.org/en/firefox/ai-security-zero-day-vul...
      - cassianoleal 6mo ago
        Thank you! I had missed that one, and it's an excellent read!

BoorishBears 6mo ago

We already have access to a smaller version of the Mythos tier with Opus 4.7: based on the usual delta between the full fat models and their distills, do you really think Mythos breaks cybersecurity? It's a good model update. We've had these before, and it looks like OpenAI is gearing up to match it this week. - Mythos launch has felt like a showsman overlplaying their hand. Opus 4.5 put them in an awkward position after everyone went Opus-only and suddenly Sonnet's quota was getting treated like you were asking people to use Haiku. So a new pretraining run completes and instead of just releasing it as Opus 5, they stick the model in a new tier and name it Mythos Preview, while simultaneously launching Project Glasswing to literally build a mythos around the model. Some people are even confusing it for some sort of completely new paradigm of model centered on cybersecurity not realizing it's 'just' a new model tier, and the cybersecurity stuff is separate. While Mythos Preview is simmering a Sonnet-sized distill gets launched as Opus 4.7, at Opus prices, and fixes the margins and compute needs of the Opus tier again. Improved pretraining + progress on RL allows it to compete even though it's a smaller model, but some things still regress like understanding nuance (hence the regression on Tau bench and agentic search) - It's clear they plan to price Mythos like they used to price Opus (so high that you don't see it as a strict replacement for the smaller tiers) and heal the compute crunch just a tad. The main problem is OpenAI doesn't have to play these games. They have compute, and GPT-5 is already a very parameter efficient model so they're just going to release their model without the fanfare and mystery. Mythos might get deflated before they even get to cash in on all the fanfare they created. Unfortunate timing really (if you're Anthropic)

solenoid0937 6mo ago
If Glasswing was a marketing exercise for Anthropic, why did Linux Foundation issue a joint statement with them? What about Apple? Conspiracy theories aside - what's your Occam's Razor explanation?
- petesergeant 6mo ago
  You'd look like an idiot for turning down Anthropic's help, but if Anthropic are over-blowing it, you probably won't have any reputational harm.

EE84M3i 6mo ago

I don't think there is a general consensus in the security community that finding bugs is easier than writing exploits.

solenoid0937 6mo ago
It definitely is. You can use all sorts of vuln scanners to find vulns. Most codebases have vulns, and most vulns aren't even reachable. The hard part is chaining them together in a fire-and-forget exploit that gets you what you want from the target.
- Guvante 6mo ago
  Isn't breaking the sandbox the hard part? RCE is effectively "can run code" which is just JavaScript if you ignore the sandbox.

redanddead 6mo ago

you think anthropic didn't earn their hate?

halJordan 6mo ago
Most normal people: "Only you decide what you feel." HN busybodies: "You have forced me to hate you, im an incapable child"
- queenkjuul 6mo ago
  They said earned, not forced