5 ms·

Corn ethanol fuel has been a known scam for decades.

by tim-tday 6mo ago

therobots927 6mo ago
Just another handout. Ironically many of the recipients of said hand outs oppose social welfare programs.
- dotcoma 6mo ago
  Socialism for the rich and rugged capitalism for the poor -- MLK
- tombert 6mo ago
  I think the theoretical idea is that we want to ensure that there is always a very large domestic corn supply, in the event of war or something. Corn is a crop that has a lot of uses; it can be refined into sugar, it can be used as flour, it's relatively energy dense food-wise, and it can be fairly easily converted into fuel if necessary. I'm not saying I fully agree with the reasoning but I at least kind of get it.
  - testaccount28 6mo ago
    right. view it instead as "we need to keep domestic corn production above a certain threshold." the result is that we have a lot of extra corn. now the question becomes: what do we do with this extra corn? we can either throw it away, or turn it into fuel. it's not an efficient course if the target is fuel, but that's not the target. it is a decent use if we have lots of corn that nobody wants, which we do.
- jmclnx 6mo ago
  I would say it is even worse, it is a scam to feed $ to the rich due to Gov subsidizes. Plus, IIRC, ethanol is used as a way to make people think it is OK to use fossil fuels allowing the oil industry to point to these farms. Plus I heard too high an ethanol mixture can damage your engine, thus adding to "planned obsolescence".
jimbob45 6mo ago
Corn is grown for food security as far as I'm aware. Corn ethanol fuel is just an outlet so that the corn grown doesn't go to waste.
- boc 6mo ago
  It's mostly done because Iowa hosts (arguably) the most important primary election for presidential cycles.
  - DavidPeiffer 6mo ago
    (Iowan) We've been losing our importance in the election cycles. We did have a pair of very long tenured senators who definitely gave us an outsized representation for decades, helping to establish many of the ag friendly policies we have in place today (Senators Harkin and Grassley).
- megaman821 6mo ago
  Between the ethanol and the animal feed, we are encouraging growing way more corn than is needed for food security.
- triceratops 6mo ago
  Ethanol corn is the same as the corn grown for animal feed. https://iowarfa.org/ethanol-center/ethanol-facts/food-and-fuel-facts/ https://iowarfa.org/ethanol-center/ethanol-facts/food-and-fu... It isn't human-grade corn.
  - Cytobit 6mo ago
    What do you think they are feeding the animals for? To make food.
    - triceratops 6mo ago
      Massively inefficient approach to "food security". Burn fossil fuels to grow animal fodder, feed and raise animals, wtf. Huge amounts of energy lost at each stage of that process.
upofadown 6mo ago
Yeah, you only get out something like 30% more energy than you put in[1]. So this isn't so much about how great solar is but is more about how bad corn ethanol is... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_energy_balance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_energy_balance

Corn ethanol fuel has been a known scam for decades.

therobots927 6mo ago

Just another handout. Ironically many of the recipients of said hand outs oppose social welfare programs.

dotcoma 6mo ago
Socialism for the rich and rugged capitalism for the poor -- MLK
tombert 6mo ago
I think the theoretical idea is that we want to ensure that there is always a very large domestic corn supply, in the event of war or something. Corn is a crop that has a lot of uses; it can be refined into sugar, it can be used as flour, it's relatively energy dense food-wise, and it can be fairly easily converted into fuel if necessary. I'm not saying I fully agree with the reasoning but I at least kind of get it.
- testaccount28 6mo ago
  right. view it instead as "we need to keep domestic corn production above a certain threshold." the result is that we have a lot of extra corn. now the question becomes: what do we do with this extra corn? we can either throw it away, or turn it into fuel. it's not an efficient course if the target is fuel, but that's not the target. it is a decent use if we have lots of corn that nobody wants, which we do.
jmclnx 6mo ago
I would say it is even worse, it is a scam to feed $ to the rich due to Gov subsidizes. Plus, IIRC, ethanol is used as a way to make people think it is OK to use fossil fuels allowing the oil industry to point to these farms. Plus I heard too high an ethanol mixture can damage your engine, thus adding to "planned obsolescence".

jimbob45 6mo ago

Corn is grown for food security as far as I'm aware. Corn ethanol fuel is just an outlet so that the corn grown doesn't go to waste.

boc 6mo ago
It's mostly done because Iowa hosts (arguably) the most important primary election for presidential cycles.
- DavidPeiffer 6mo ago
  (Iowan) We've been losing our importance in the election cycles. We did have a pair of very long tenured senators who definitely gave us an outsized representation for decades, helping to establish many of the ag friendly policies we have in place today (Senators Harkin and Grassley).
megaman821 6mo ago
Between the ethanol and the animal feed, we are encouraging growing way more corn than is needed for food security.
triceratops 6mo ago
Ethanol corn is the same as the corn grown for animal feed. https://iowarfa.org/ethanol-center/ethanol-facts/food-and-fuel-facts/ https://iowarfa.org/ethanol-center/ethanol-facts/food-and-fu... It isn't human-grade corn.
- Cytobit 6mo ago
  What do you think they are feeding the animals for? To make food.
  - triceratops 6mo ago
    Massively inefficient approach to "food security". Burn fossil fuels to grow animal fodder, feed and raise animals, wtf. Huge amounts of energy lost at each stage of that process.

upofadown 6mo ago

Yeah, you only get out something like 30% more energy than you put in[1]. So this isn't so much about how great solar is but is more about how bad corn ethanol is... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_energy_balance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_energy_balance