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A year ago this [0] table tennis robot backed by Google DeepMind was discussed on HN. It plays much worse and the HN discussion is anchored around whether it's
by dmurray 6mo ago
A year ago this [0] table tennis robot backed by Google DeepMind was discussed on HN.
It plays much worse and the HN discussion is anchored around whether it's OK to call it "human-level" or if the authors should have clarified that they meant a human who doesn't actually play table tennis. But it was accepted as being SOTA at that time.
What happened since then? This looks like the kind of level of advance we see in, say, coding AIs, but I thought physical robotics was advancing much more slowly.
A partial answer is that the new robot cheats in ways that DeepMind didn't seem to. It has high speed cameras all over the room and can detect spin by observing the logo on the ball. But I'm not sure this explains such a big advance.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43861207 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43861207
- hermitcrab 6mo agoAs a human player (of a not-high standard) I cannot see the spin of the ball directly. I can only infer it from the movement of my opponents bat. So I would wonder that a camera could pick it up in real time. Also IT'S TABLE TENNIS, NOT PING PONG!
- jamesjyu 6mo agoIt was actually called ping pong until it became a trademark dispute, and the sport had to call it table tennis!
- hermitcrab 6mo agoAccording to this video it can read the spin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH8kZDc7OLk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH8kZDc7OLk
- BrandoElFollito 6mo agoI had a look at Google trends for France. Table tennis is slightly more common than ping pong but the latter is much more stable. Table tennis has huge peaks, the biggest one being during the OG in Paris. These parks are not reflected in there ping pong trend Interestingly, for Youtube searches this is the other way, with a much bigger difference in favour to ping pong
- neosat 6mo agoAs a player myself, and having seen much higher level player than me, reading the spin from the ball rotation (and in fact trajectory) of the ball is a common (if advanced) skill. Sometimes the movement of the bat can be deceptive (since with the same movement, where it contact on the bat, the finger pressure can affect the spin). For example, backspin/underspin balls will move slower after the first bounce and feel 'damper' while topspin will jump. So it's def. possible (and in fact reliable) to read the spin from the spin and trajectory of the ball.
- QuantumGood 6mo agoVisually reading spin is unreliable at all levels; the ITTF passed the two-color rubber rule requiring one black and one red side to neutralize players taking advantage of their opponents being unable to read the spin from watching the ball rotation via twiddling rackets with the same color rubber on both sides, but different characteristics.
- stavros 6mo agoI can't parse that sentence, can you please clarify?
- thatguy0900 6mo agoPing pong paddles have two sides, with different characteristics for each side. Now the two sides have to have different colors so your opponent can see what you are hitting it with, where before you could use the same color on both sides and your opponent wouldn't be able to tell how the ball would react
- stavros 6mo agoThanks!
- QuantumGood 6mo agoApologies! I left a much clearer edit on screen, and when I noticed I had not commited it, the edit window had closed.
- davebren 6mo agoThe ball trajectory gives the spin
- dataflow 6mo ago> Also IT'S TABLE TENNIS, NOT PING PONG! Is it also MOVING STAIRCASE, NOT ESCALATOR?
- throwup238 6mo ago> Also IT'S TABLE TENNIS, NOT PING PONG! Alas HN has finally found its next religious war! I’ve been feeling a little bored after that whole tabs vs spaces one was settled.
- user3939382 6mo agoSettled how? Tabs win, right?
- scythe 6mo agogo fmt
- antonvs 6mo agoLuckily Go is only used by people looking for a typed version of Python.
- Filligree 6mo agoI refuse. My code will be formatted according to my own preferences.
- drfloyd51 6mo agoImagine a world where your editor shows you what you want to see… but saves in a standard format for sharing.
- inanutshellus 6mo agoSo long as my format is the standard one, that all newcomers an unopinionateds see by default and thus my opinions rule forever... yeah! great idea! otherwise... oh hayol no.
- david422 6mo agoThat's what tabs accomplish!
- bombcar 6mo agoIt’s miniature table pickleball.
- paolovictor 6mo agoTo be honest, if Chinese folks are fine with calling it "ping pong" (乒乓), I'm fine, too. (Also, you sorta can infer the spin from the ball arc or even if you catch a glimpse of the rotating label)
- mcmoor 6mo agoLmao the character used is so cute
- Foobar8568 6mo agoIn french, we call that ping pong too. So yeah for ping pong.
- pil0u 6mo agoThat is simply not true. We call it "tennis de table" when it comes to the sport, and we call it "ping pong" when you play at a camping in flip flops.
- hermitcrab 6mo ago>even if you catch a glimpse of the rotating label Some people say they can see the spin from the rotating logo. I can't.
- zelphirkalt 6mo agoMaybe if it is a slow exchange. But I suspect, that trying that when the exchange is fast, will make one react way too slow. The inference happens by looking of how the opponent moved their racket/paddle. That starts way earlier, than one could possibly see it looking at the ball and tracking the logo.
- zelphirkalt 6mo agoThen we should at least write it correctly: Pīngpāng [1]: https://www.mdbg.net/chinese/dictionary?page=worddict&email=&wdrst=0&wdqb=%E4%B9%92%E4%B9%93 https://www.mdbg.net/chinese/dictionary?page=worddict&email=...
- segmondy 6mo agoIt's ping pong.
- thenthenthen 6mo agoIt is ping pang if you use standard pinyin. Also, all these fancy cameras, I wonder if they considered using sound as well? I am a super noob fE player but sound hints are pretty telling of the speed and where and how the ball was hit
- james_marks 6mo agoPing Pong is what you play for fun in the basement. The competitive sport is Table Tennis.
- 4gotunameagain 6mo agoThis is like software developers who write javascript wanting to be called engineers, isn't it
- ReptileMan 6mo agoVibe code
- avadodin 6mo agoErm, excuse me? The professional engineering language is called TypeScript. JavaScript is what you use to add popups to your GeoCities WebSite.
- antonvs 6mo ago> professional engineering language > TypeScript rofl
- drfloyd51 6mo agolol all you want. I’ve got 5 people on my team buying food and housing for their families with typescript skills.
- pixel_popping 6mo agoIt's great that they start somewhere in computers, kuddos to them.
- antonvs 6mo agoIt's great that they're earning a living, but "engineering" is a very puffed-up title for that activity.
- zhouzhao 6mo agoIt's pīngpāng.
- redleader55 6mo ago乒乓. I don't know how it could be more clear that it's not "table tennis".
- Steve44 6mo ago> Also IT'S TABLE TENNIS, NOT PING PONG! We can also add Whiff Waff to the alternative names!
- redsocksfan45 6mo ago[dead]
- nateguchi 6mo agoIt's Wiff Waff actually [0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uix9kXIMVRM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uix9kXIMVRM
- Vegenoid 6mo agoI do not understand why people who get serious about it want so badly for it to be called table tennis. Ping pong is a way more fun name, and table tennis just seems to make it out to be a smaller, inferior version of tennis.
- tshaddox 6mo agoIn the context of competitive events, it probably makes sense to use "table tennis," simply because there is one notable event that uses "ping pong" to refer specifically to different set of rules and equipment (the World Championship of Ping Pong).
- aaron695 6mo ago[dead]
- buttersicle 6mo ago[dead]