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> I said multiple times that I exclusively run trusted apps on the phone. I use Qubes for untrusted staff. Do you understand that threat models can vary? By th

> I said multiple times that I exclusively run trusted apps on the phone. I use Qubes for untrusted staff. Do you understand that threat models can vary? By that logic, you might as well just not have the killswitch at all. Everything is magically "trusted", right? Yes, I do understand that threat models can vary. Please give an example of a threat model where it makes more sense to use a phone which cannot protect any private calls over a functioning phone that has real protection. If you are going to say "oh, when you never talk on the phone at all" then you might as well just remove the mic. It's not hard. As usual, there is nothing that GrapheneOS or Micay says regarding the Librem or Pinephone that is inaccurate. You are just saying stuff that doesn't even remotely make any sense. Perhaps you are being deliberately disingenuous. Perhaps you are just so blinded by an ideology that you cannot see that what you say is just nonsense. I wouldn't know. > I choose to dispute false information. I don't care about any personalities. Doesn't seem to be what you are doing here.

fsflover 5mo ago
> there is nothing that GrapheneOS or Micay says regarding the Librem or Pinephone that are inaccurate. This is completely false: > Their microphone kill switch also doesn't prevent audio recording
- TommyTran732 5mo ago
  > Their microphone kill switch also doesn't prevent audio recording It doesn't prevent audio recording in the super paranoid "oh, the whole phone has been compromised" scenario because it is bypassable via the sensors. In fact, it doesn't even protect the phone in normal operation, because apps with device=all can access the sensors without the whole phone being compromised. It doesn't prevent audio recording with any normal usage either because the OS is incapable of protecting private conversations thanks to the PulseAudio socket. "Exploiting" this is significantly easier than any of the stuff involving the sensors.
  - fsflover 5mo ago
    > because it is bypassable via the sensors. Did you even look in my link, which we are discussing? My quote from there: > Sensors are also switched off on Librem 5 by the three kill switches: https://puri.sm/posts/lockdown-mode-on-the-librem-5-beyond-hardware-kill-switches/ https://puri.sm/posts/lockdown-mode-on-the-librem-5-beyond-h...
    - TommyTran732 5mo ago
      And what good is the phone when 3 switches are off? You think that people buy a phone with a "mic killswitch" expects to have to turn off practically everything including internet to make sure that their mics aren't snooped on? Does that really sound like a functioning "killswitch"?
      - handedness 5mo ago
        The mind, it boggles. On a long enough timeline he'll probably cite this comment chain as proof you were unable to respond to his concerns, like everyone else who's ever tried.
        TommyTran732 5mo ago
        Oh he's already done that when I explained to him how stuff like PureBoot has circular logic and doesn't actually work on Qubes forum already. Unfortunately he will just ignore every single counter argument ever made and blindly believe these companies because their marketing material has "freedom" and "FOSS" in it.
        fsflover 5mo ago
        On Qubes forum, you had replies from far more knowledgeable people than me. You never could answer to them. You only talk about the lack of security of Pureboot and never showed the code breaking it. "Talk is cheap, show me the code".
- handedness 5mo ago
  > This is completely false: >> Their microphone kill switch also doesn't prevent audio recording More dangerous advice. The microphone kill switch prevents audio recording via the mic, not via the sensors or speaker. A Librem 5 user needing to secure against audio attacks would need to switch all kill switches off, not just the mic one (by Librem 5's own estimation), but would still be vulnerable to the speaker. The effect of your participation in threads about projects you claim to care about is harmful. Please do better.
  - fsflover 5mo ago
    Librem 5 speakers cannot be used for recording, according to the developers. Yes, all kill switches protect you from the sensors. This is indeed a misunderstanding, again. Reliable protection is possible - this is all I wanted to say. Not everybody means "all sensors" when they say "microphone". I took the phrase literally.

fsflover 5mo ago

> there is nothing that GrapheneOS or Micay says regarding the Librem or Pinephone that are inaccurate. This is completely false: > Their microphone kill switch also doesn't prevent audio recording

TommyTran732 5mo ago
> Their microphone kill switch also doesn't prevent audio recording It doesn't prevent audio recording in the super paranoid "oh, the whole phone has been compromised" scenario because it is bypassable via the sensors. In fact, it doesn't even protect the phone in normal operation, because apps with device=all can access the sensors without the whole phone being compromised. It doesn't prevent audio recording with any normal usage either because the OS is incapable of protecting private conversations thanks to the PulseAudio socket. "Exploiting" this is significantly easier than any of the stuff involving the sensors.
- fsflover 5mo ago
  > because it is bypassable via the sensors. Did you even look in my link, which we are discussing? My quote from there: > Sensors are also switched off on Librem 5 by the three kill switches: https://puri.sm/posts/lockdown-mode-on-the-librem-5-beyond-hardware-kill-switches/ https://puri.sm/posts/lockdown-mode-on-the-librem-5-beyond-h...
  - TommyTran732 5mo ago
    And what good is the phone when 3 switches are off? You think that people buy a phone with a "mic killswitch" expects to have to turn off practically everything including internet to make sure that their mics aren't snooped on? Does that really sound like a functioning "killswitch"?
    - handedness 5mo ago
      The mind, it boggles. On a long enough timeline he'll probably cite this comment chain as proof you were unable to respond to his concerns, like everyone else who's ever tried.
      - TommyTran732 5mo ago
        Oh he's already done that when I explained to him how stuff like PureBoot has circular logic and doesn't actually work on Qubes forum already. Unfortunately he will just ignore every single counter argument ever made and blindly believe these companies because their marketing material has "freedom" and "FOSS" in it.
        fsflover 5mo ago
        On Qubes forum, you had replies from far more knowledgeable people than me. You never could answer to them. You only talk about the lack of security of Pureboot and never showed the code breaking it. "Talk is cheap, show me the code".
handedness 5mo ago
> This is completely false: >> Their microphone kill switch also doesn't prevent audio recording More dangerous advice. The microphone kill switch prevents audio recording via the mic, not via the sensors or speaker. A Librem 5 user needing to secure against audio attacks would need to switch all kill switches off, not just the mic one (by Librem 5's own estimation), but would still be vulnerable to the speaker. The effect of your participation in threads about projects you claim to care about is harmful. Please do better.
- fsflover 5mo ago
  Librem 5 speakers cannot be used for recording, according to the developers. Yes, all kill switches protect you from the sensors. This is indeed a misunderstanding, again. Reliable protection is possible - this is all I wanted to say. Not everybody means "all sensors" when they say "microphone". I took the phrase literally.