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The problem is that there is not enough infrastructure for EVs. If you can't charge at home (e.g. you live in a flat), it is hard to live with an EV and it's mu

The problem is that there is not enough infrastructure for EVs. If you can't charge at home (e.g. you live in a flat), it is hard to live with an EV and it's much more expensive than the ICE.

dalyons 6mo ago
And that will never change?
sigio 6mo ago
Local government can quickly change that, if they get their act together. Here in the Hague, there's literally thousands of public chargers available on the city's residential streets. Coupled with the fact that the charging-price is city-mandated at a fixed rate (currently around 35ct/kwh), this gives a perfectly fine solution for most people. (I can charge at home, for 20ct/kwh currently, so that's even nicer)
- throwaway85825 6mo ago
  35ct/kwh is highway robbery.
  - m463 6mo ago
    would be nice if california had such discounted prices... :)
    - throwaway85825 6mo ago
      Jesus, I had no idea California was that bad. How is that even possible? Our rate is 15c/kwh.
      - rootusrootus 6mo ago
        > How is that even possible? It's PG&E for the most part, and their huge liability payout for burning a city to the ground due to skipping maintenance on their distribution lines. Some places in California have prices closer to the US average.
        coryrc 6mo ago
        And not enough share on the people who built on a tinderbox which historically regularly (every few years) had fires go through.
      - bittercynic 6mo ago
        I'm in CA and only charge at home, and pay 14c/kwh.
        m463 6mo ago
        palo alto and santa clara don't count. They have well-run power companies, not pushing regulatory capture.
  - Sayrus 6mo ago
    Not sure what country you're from but in France it's not rare to see 0.30-0.60€ per kWh and even requiring a subscription on top of that.
  - Ekaros 6mo ago
    What is actually the realistic cost. Covering infra, the charger and the maintenance of everything involved. Power and transfer included, with transfer including any standing charges. And after that you probably want decent margin to well run the business.
    - throwaway85825 6mo ago
      If you're referring to DC charging it's going to be pretty expensive. The construction and power electronics for a DC station is going to be in the millions. For AC the rectifier is inside the car and the L2 chargers is just a fancy plug. Price should just be the base electricity cost.
    - subscribed 6mo ago
      I don't expect 10 thousands of the fast chargers in my town. I'd love to have slow chargers built into the street lights. Not everyone owns a house, and the public charging usually meets or exceeds the petrol price per mile.
- gib444 6mo ago
  Not in the UK. Local governments (councils) are going bankrupt and are saddled with an overwhelming burden to pay for adult and child social care. There's no money for much else
boznz 6mo ago
I had a rental EV while I was there for 6 weeks last summer, it was a pretty low spec jeep model and I stayed at mates places all over England none of which had parking or charging, to tell the truth charging was a bit spotty in town, but if I was just going around the local area the battery was good for a week or more. My take away was I would definitely rent an EV again, but a lot of the older charging infrastructure still sucks, under-provisioned at peak times, and cost 2-3 times what a similar charge would cost here in NZ. I ended up doing most of my charging at the Tesla superchargers on the motorways and at supermarkets in town. I did 2900 miles total and it was about the same cost as petrol in the end, but worth it as the EV was cheaper to rent and was automatic (which renters charge a premium in UK) Not sure fast charging all the time is good for battery life though. 99% of my driving in NZ is on a normal 10A overnight charge
cogman10 6mo ago
In the UK? Nah. Electricity is expensive in the UK (~25p/kWh) But not gas car expensive. It is £1.57/L (£5.94/gallon). The EV infrastructure is also pretty dang far along, especially compared to the US. Remember that everything in the UK is a lot smaller and closer together than it is in the US. Further, the UK has a functional train system for long distance travel. You can go from the top of Dunnet Head to Lizard Point in a 15 hour drive. People downvoting me, Look up chargers in plugshare to see just how many there are in the UK, it's a lot. And also correct my math if it's wrong. An 80kWh car costs £20 to fill up. A 55L car, which has about the same range, costs £85 to fill up.
- teamonkey 6mo ago
  Also if you are able to charge at home you can subscribe to a smart tariff that gives you electricity for 4p/kWh overnight. That’s £3.20 to fill an 80kWh battery that on a modern car will take you up to 320 miles.
- throwaway85825 6mo ago
  "Functional train system" is not how anyone would describe the UK. It's cheaper to fly than take the train. Cost to fill up doesnt matter, only the cost per mile.
  - btbuilder 6mo ago
    ~1.5 billion train journeys a year is “functional”.
    - subscribed 6mo ago
      It's cheaper to purchase new bike/used car, tax and insure it, service and fuel, than to use train to ride to work. Annual train ticket form my small town (25 miles from the Zone 1 of London) is over £5,500. Five GRAND. For the pleasure of standing every time and a much higher risk of getting mugged. £15k will give you REALLY nice bike or pretty new car. After third year you're saving thousands. Of course if you decided to buy something old and used, you're saving from the second quarter of the first year on. It's only functional because not everyone can afford another car to work.
tshaddox 6mo ago
You can't fill up your gas tank at home or at work, which is presumably where a significant portion of EV drivers charge their cars.
- znkynz 6mo ago
  There are many, many homes in the UK with no garaging, where cars are parked in non-reserved spaces on the street overnight.
  - AnthonyMouse 6mo ago
    If a significant percentage of cars start to become EVs then spaces where people regularly park overnight will get chargers because it will allow whoever is operating them to make a bit of money selling electricity. You don't have to be making a huge profit margin to make it worth your while to have people passively buying ~200kWh/month of electricity from you. The same applies to workplaces, especially if solar causes electricity to cost less during daylight hours, and then it becomes convenient to get an EV if there is a charger where you park at night or where you park during the day.
    - znkynz 6mo ago
      that would depend on the infrastucture cost to install such charging and to maintain it? This is kerbside slow charging presumably overnight. Note that spaces in these residental areas are typically not even marked spaces; the worst outcome might be losing more footpath space to charging infra for road users.
      - JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
        > would depend on the infrastucture cost to install such charging and to maintain it? The UK runs on 240V. A regular outlet would probably be fine.
      - nicoburns 6mo ago
        Non-fast chargers aren't very big. They can be installed in lampposts, or in lampost-diameter boxes sunk into the pavement (with the socket sticking out at the top)
teamonkey 6mo ago
It’s getting better. https://transportandenergy.com/2026/04/16/42-of-councils-to-have-cross-pavement-charging-by-end-of-2026/ https://transportandenergy.com/2026/04/16/42-of-councils-to-...
hunterpayne 6mo ago
The problem isn't infrastructure. Its the amount of Li in reserve.
- adrian_b 6mo ago
  There already are in production cars with Na-ion batteries.
- dalyons 6mo ago
  that is absolutely not the problem. We have more than enough li, subject to cost of extraction. New chemistries dont even need it. you need to update your talking points.
pstuart 6mo ago
Another problem is that fuel taxes are a reasonably equitable means of paying for the roads, and EVs don't have that -- the closest would be vehicle miles * weight or some such.
- DangitBobby 6mo ago
  Fuel taxes don't seem to take into account the quartic scaling of damage by vehicle weight on pavement.
  - Detrytus 6mo ago
    Well, if they did then EVs would pay more, since they are much heavier., because of, you know, the batteries.
    - rootusrootus 6mo ago
      Like for like, about 10% heavier. For now, at least. Few more years and they will be lighter on average.
    - DangitBobby 6mo ago
      At least in the US, EVs are not heavier than the average driver's vehicle, though they are heavier than other vehicles in their class. And practically all consumer vehicles are nothing compared to semi trucks.
    - moepstar 6mo ago
      Bollocks - all generalizations are false. My Model 3 (RWD SR+ 2023) is 1847kg unloaded weight, including driver.
- blitzar 6mo ago
  Equivalents of fuel taxes for EVs have been announced recently - charging directly on a per mile basis. > The rate of tax will be 3 pence per mile for fully electric cars; this is around half of the 6 pence per mile the average petrol or diesel driver pays in fuel duty. https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/consultation-on-the-introduction-of-electric-vehicle-excise-duty-eved/consultation-on-the-introduction-of-electric-vehicle-excise-duty-eved https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/consultation-on-...
throwaway85825 6mo ago
Governments would do better to try to fix the bureaucracy around installing L2 chargers in shared living spaces. It's a problem they created and it should be on them to fix. But it guess that's harder than impossible mandates and high EV taxes.

The problem is that there is not enough infrastructure for EVs. If you can't charge at home (e.g. you live in a flat), it is hard to live with an EV and it's much more expensive than the ICE.

dalyons 6mo ago

And that will never change?

sigio 6mo ago

Local government can quickly change that, if they get their act together. Here in the Hague, there's literally thousands of public chargers available on the city's residential streets. Coupled with the fact that the charging-price is city-mandated at a fixed rate (currently around 35ct/kwh), this gives a perfectly fine solution for most people. (I can charge at home, for 20ct/kwh currently, so that's even nicer)

throwaway85825 6mo ago
35ct/kwh is highway robbery.
- m463 6mo ago
  would be nice if california had such discounted prices... :)
  - throwaway85825 6mo ago
    Jesus, I had no idea California was that bad. How is that even possible? Our rate is 15c/kwh.
    - rootusrootus 6mo ago
      > How is that even possible? It's PG&E for the most part, and their huge liability payout for burning a city to the ground due to skipping maintenance on their distribution lines. Some places in California have prices closer to the US average.
      - coryrc 6mo ago
        And not enough share on the people who built on a tinderbox which historically regularly (every few years) had fires go through.
    - bittercynic 6mo ago
      I'm in CA and only charge at home, and pay 14c/kwh.
      - m463 6mo ago
        palo alto and santa clara don't count. They have well-run power companies, not pushing regulatory capture.
- Sayrus 6mo ago
  Not sure what country you're from but in France it's not rare to see 0.30-0.60€ per kWh and even requiring a subscription on top of that.
- Ekaros 6mo ago
  What is actually the realistic cost. Covering infra, the charger and the maintenance of everything involved. Power and transfer included, with transfer including any standing charges. And after that you probably want decent margin to well run the business.
  - throwaway85825 6mo ago
    If you're referring to DC charging it's going to be pretty expensive. The construction and power electronics for a DC station is going to be in the millions. For AC the rectifier is inside the car and the L2 chargers is just a fancy plug. Price should just be the base electricity cost.
  - subscribed 6mo ago
    I don't expect 10 thousands of the fast chargers in my town. I'd love to have slow chargers built into the street lights. Not everyone owns a house, and the public charging usually meets or exceeds the petrol price per mile.
gib444 6mo ago
Not in the UK. Local governments (councils) are going bankrupt and are saddled with an overwhelming burden to pay for adult and child social care. There's no money for much else

boznz 6mo ago

I had a rental EV while I was there for 6 weeks last summer, it was a pretty low spec jeep model and I stayed at mates places all over England none of which had parking or charging, to tell the truth charging was a bit spotty in town, but if I was just going around the local area the battery was good for a week or more. My take away was I would definitely rent an EV again, but a lot of the older charging infrastructure still sucks, under-provisioned at peak times, and cost 2-3 times what a similar charge would cost here in NZ. I ended up doing most of my charging at the Tesla superchargers on the motorways and at supermarkets in town. I did 2900 miles total and it was about the same cost as petrol in the end, but worth it as the EV was cheaper to rent and was automatic (which renters charge a premium in UK) Not sure fast charging all the time is good for battery life though. 99% of my driving in NZ is on a normal 10A overnight charge

cogman10 6mo ago

In the UK? Nah. Electricity is expensive in the UK (~25p/kWh) But not gas car expensive. It is £1.57/L (£5.94/gallon). The EV infrastructure is also pretty dang far along, especially compared to the US. Remember that everything in the UK is a lot smaller and closer together than it is in the US. Further, the UK has a functional train system for long distance travel. You can go from the top of Dunnet Head to Lizard Point in a 15 hour drive. People downvoting me, Look up chargers in plugshare to see just how many there are in the UK, it's a lot. And also correct my math if it's wrong. An 80kWh car costs £20 to fill up. A 55L car, which has about the same range, costs £85 to fill up.

teamonkey 6mo ago
Also if you are able to charge at home you can subscribe to a smart tariff that gives you electricity for 4p/kWh overnight. That’s £3.20 to fill an 80kWh battery that on a modern car will take you up to 320 miles.
throwaway85825 6mo ago
"Functional train system" is not how anyone would describe the UK. It's cheaper to fly than take the train. Cost to fill up doesnt matter, only the cost per mile.
- btbuilder 6mo ago
  ~1.5 billion train journeys a year is “functional”.
  - subscribed 6mo ago
    It's cheaper to purchase new bike/used car, tax and insure it, service and fuel, than to use train to ride to work. Annual train ticket form my small town (25 miles from the Zone 1 of London) is over £5,500. Five GRAND. For the pleasure of standing every time and a much higher risk of getting mugged. £15k will give you REALLY nice bike or pretty new car. After third year you're saving thousands. Of course if you decided to buy something old and used, you're saving from the second quarter of the first year on. It's only functional because not everyone can afford another car to work.

tshaddox 6mo ago

You can't fill up your gas tank at home or at work, which is presumably where a significant portion of EV drivers charge their cars.

znkynz 6mo ago
There are many, many homes in the UK with no garaging, where cars are parked in non-reserved spaces on the street overnight.
- AnthonyMouse 6mo ago
  If a significant percentage of cars start to become EVs then spaces where people regularly park overnight will get chargers because it will allow whoever is operating them to make a bit of money selling electricity. You don't have to be making a huge profit margin to make it worth your while to have people passively buying ~200kWh/month of electricity from you. The same applies to workplaces, especially if solar causes electricity to cost less during daylight hours, and then it becomes convenient to get an EV if there is a charger where you park at night or where you park during the day.
  - znkynz 6mo ago
    that would depend on the infrastucture cost to install such charging and to maintain it? This is kerbside slow charging presumably overnight. Note that spaces in these residental areas are typically not even marked spaces; the worst outcome might be losing more footpath space to charging infra for road users.
    - JumpCrisscross 6mo ago
      > would depend on the infrastucture cost to install such charging and to maintain it? The UK runs on 240V. A regular outlet would probably be fine.
    - nicoburns 6mo ago
      Non-fast chargers aren't very big. They can be installed in lampposts, or in lampost-diameter boxes sunk into the pavement (with the socket sticking out at the top)

teamonkey 6mo ago

It’s getting better. https://transportandenergy.com/2026/04/16/42-of-councils-to-have-cross-pavement-charging-by-end-of-2026/ https://transportandenergy.com/2026/04/16/42-of-councils-to-...

hunterpayne 6mo ago

The problem isn't infrastructure. Its the amount of Li in reserve.

adrian_b 6mo ago
There already are in production cars with Na-ion batteries.
dalyons 6mo ago
that is absolutely not the problem. We have more than enough li, subject to cost of extraction. New chemistries dont even need it. you need to update your talking points.

pstuart 6mo ago

Another problem is that fuel taxes are a reasonably equitable means of paying for the roads, and EVs don't have that -- the closest would be vehicle miles * weight or some such.

DangitBobby 6mo ago
Fuel taxes don't seem to take into account the quartic scaling of damage by vehicle weight on pavement.
- Detrytus 6mo ago
  Well, if they did then EVs would pay more, since they are much heavier., because of, you know, the batteries.
  - rootusrootus 6mo ago
    Like for like, about 10% heavier. For now, at least. Few more years and they will be lighter on average.
  - DangitBobby 6mo ago
    At least in the US, EVs are not heavier than the average driver's vehicle, though they are heavier than other vehicles in their class. And practically all consumer vehicles are nothing compared to semi trucks.
  - moepstar 6mo ago
    Bollocks - all generalizations are false. My Model 3 (RWD SR+ 2023) is 1847kg unloaded weight, including driver.
blitzar 6mo ago
Equivalents of fuel taxes for EVs have been announced recently - charging directly on a per mile basis. > The rate of tax will be 3 pence per mile for fully electric cars; this is around half of the 6 pence per mile the average petrol or diesel driver pays in fuel duty. https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/consultation-on-the-introduction-of-electric-vehicle-excise-duty-eved/consultation-on-the-introduction-of-electric-vehicle-excise-duty-eved https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/consultation-on-...

throwaway85825 6mo ago

Governments would do better to try to fix the bureaucracy around installing L2 chargers in shared living spaces. It's a problem they created and it should be on them to fix. But it guess that's harder than impossible mandates and high EV taxes.