4 ms·

> Immature maybe Yeah, that’s the issue. I don’t want people who behave immaturely, impulsively, or vindictively, having a key role in something as important a

> Immature maybe Yeah, that’s the issue. I don’t want people who behave immaturely, impulsively, or vindictively, having a key role in something as important as my phone os. I want stability, maturity, and thoughtfulness.

cf100clunk 6mo ago
Mental health and wellness issues in high tech research and development are everywhere. I would suggest that you focus on the product and what it can/cannot do for you.
- kennywinker 6mo ago
  Suggest away. It’s still a factor in my decision making, because if I can’t trust the developers to behave well, i can’t trust the product to continue to do what it says it can do for me.
  - HybridStatAnim8 6mo ago
    Destroying the signing keys in the midst of a hostile takeover is the responsible thing to do. Its for the safety of their users. Thats a commendable trait to have.
  - latable 6mo ago
    What does it means to "behave well" for you in this case ?
  - aphorism 6mo ago
    Same, which is why I'm glad he deleted the signing key in this case. It was the only right play given the situation. I'd have done the same and I'd expect anyone with integrity to do likewise.
  - majorchord 6mo ago
    > if I can’t trust the developers to behave well, i can’t trust the product to continue to do what it says it can do for me. So you'd be willing to give up Linux because Linus cannot stop verbally abusing people to this day? Because that's what I did. I decided that any project where the main dev(s) openly abuse people in public, is the line I draw. I know that is an extremely controversial choice that many people will disagree with, but it's my choice to make and I don't regret it.
- goodpoint 6mo ago
  When you have to trust the OS images generated by the authors it becomes a massive issue.
  - HybridStatAnim8 6mo ago
    You always trust the developers of software. The only way to stop that is to not use the software.
- joyous_limes 6mo ago
  [dead]
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- handedness 6mo ago
  I trust you didn't mean it that way, but it's totally improper to go to speculations about mental health in response to discussions about communication styles and maturity. While I appreciate the second line and think it's generally the right answer with FOSS projects, your speculation poisons the well.
  - cf100clunk 6mo ago
    > > Daniel Micay has a history of absolutely unhinged behavior online That quotation is from another comment in this discussion. Sadly, it is the sort of personal attack on his mental state that has been commonplace here at HN and elsewhere for a long time. I caution all to avoid such commentary. My long experience in tech r&d has firmly convinced me that mental health and wellness challenges are widespread, and should not be weaponized. I hope that clarifies my comment for you.
    - handedness 6mo ago
      It does, thank you.
exceptione 6mo ago
Understandable wishes, but you might have to put something from yourself into it if this is a pressing concern. Or you will be left to your own corporate devices.
- kennywinker 6mo ago
  What exactly are you suggesting? If i go help out at the graphene os project, that won’t change their leadership. Should I make my own fork?
  - exceptione 6mo ago
    The GOS (GrapheneOS) lead had responded to criticisms like yours that he gladly retreats inside his tech role if others would take it upon them to refute the claims from rivals. So if you are that balanced, normal person, you could take that work out of his hands. Or help fund a full time PR person. «In 2018, matters between Micay and Donaldson came to a head over Donaldson’s desire to pursue business deals with criminal organizations, and his attempts to compromise the security of CopperheadOS, including by proposing license enforcement and remote updating systems that would allow third-parties to have access to users’ phones. As part of this process, Donaldson began to demand that Micay provide Donaldson with the “signing keys” - i.e. the credentials required to verify the authenticity of releases of CopperheadOS. Donaldson advised that, in order to secure certain new business, potential customers required access to the Keys.» Micay is rightfully paranoia, just having a GOS phone makes some government agencies quite mad. There are many ways a project like GOS could die, disinformation could certainly kill it. Other projects don't help the case if they throw mud at it. Rather, they should focus on their real technical shortcomings, but such articles aren't written somehow. https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm EDIT > Should I make my own fork? You could contact him to offer your help where he falls short.
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
    - kennywinker 6mo ago
rigonkulous 6mo ago
[flagged]
HybridStatAnim8 6mo ago
That is what CopperheadOS, and now GrapheneOS, provides. Its a level of "battle tested" that most OS and app devs never have the opportunity to have. Deleting the signing keys during a hostile takeover attempt rather than submitting to pressure or greed is an amazing quality that is rare to find.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
goodpoint 6mo ago
Then avoid GrapheneOS
TommyTran732 6mo ago
So what exactly would you have done? Risk the key being taken over by a shady entity? Does the alternative really scream "mature, stable, and thoughtful" to you?
latable 6mo ago
It looks like a very mature action to me: It certainly avoided the compromission of an OS that aims to be secure after all. It is not some windows OS with encryption keys sent to the cloud, so if security is compromised I fully expect targeted devices to break.

cf100clunk 6mo ago

Mental health and wellness issues in high tech research and development are everywhere. I would suggest that you focus on the product and what it can/cannot do for you.

kennywinker 6mo ago
Suggest away. It’s still a factor in my decision making, because if I can’t trust the developers to behave well, i can’t trust the product to continue to do what it says it can do for me.
- HybridStatAnim8 6mo ago
  Destroying the signing keys in the midst of a hostile takeover is the responsible thing to do. Its for the safety of their users. Thats a commendable trait to have.
- latable 6mo ago
  What does it means to "behave well" for you in this case ?
- aphorism 6mo ago
  Same, which is why I'm glad he deleted the signing key in this case. It was the only right play given the situation. I'd have done the same and I'd expect anyone with integrity to do likewise.
- majorchord 6mo ago
  > if I can’t trust the developers to behave well, i can’t trust the product to continue to do what it says it can do for me. So you'd be willing to give up Linux because Linus cannot stop verbally abusing people to this day? Because that's what I did. I decided that any project where the main dev(s) openly abuse people in public, is the line I draw. I know that is an extremely controversial choice that many people will disagree with, but it's my choice to make and I don't regret it.
goodpoint 6mo ago
When you have to trust the OS images generated by the authors it becomes a massive issue.
- HybridStatAnim8 6mo ago
  You always trust the developers of software. The only way to stop that is to not use the software.
joyous_limes 6mo ago
[dead]
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
handedness 6mo ago
I trust you didn't mean it that way, but it's totally improper to go to speculations about mental health in response to discussions about communication styles and maturity. While I appreciate the second line and think it's generally the right answer with FOSS projects, your speculation poisons the well.
- cf100clunk 6mo ago
  > > Daniel Micay has a history of absolutely unhinged behavior online That quotation is from another comment in this discussion. Sadly, it is the sort of personal attack on his mental state that has been commonplace here at HN and elsewhere for a long time. I caution all to avoid such commentary. My long experience in tech r&d has firmly convinced me that mental health and wellness challenges are widespread, and should not be weaponized. I hope that clarifies my comment for you.
  - handedness 6mo ago
    It does, thank you.

exceptione 6mo ago

Understandable wishes, but you might have to put something from yourself into it if this is a pressing concern. Or you will be left to your own corporate devices.

kennywinker 6mo ago
What exactly are you suggesting? If i go help out at the graphene os project, that won’t change their leadership. Should I make my own fork?
- exceptione 6mo ago
  The GOS (GrapheneOS) lead had responded to criticisms like yours that he gladly retreats inside his tech role if others would take it upon them to refute the claims from rivals. So if you are that balanced, normal person, you could take that work out of his hands. Or help fund a full time PR person. «In 2018, matters between Micay and Donaldson came to a head over Donaldson’s desire to pursue business deals with criminal organizations, and his attempts to compromise the security of CopperheadOS, including by proposing license enforcement and remote updating systems that would allow third-parties to have access to users’ phones. As part of this process, Donaldson began to demand that Micay provide Donaldson with the “signing keys” - i.e. the credentials required to verify the authenticity of releases of CopperheadOS. Donaldson advised that, in order to secure certain new business, potential customers required access to the Keys.» Micay is rightfully paranoia, just having a GOS phone makes some government agencies quite mad. There are many ways a project like GOS could die, disinformation could certainly kill it. Other projects don't help the case if they throw mud at it. Rather, they should focus on their real technical shortcomings, but such articles aren't written somehow. https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm EDIT > Should I make my own fork? You could contact him to offer your help where he falls short.
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  - kennywinker 6mo ago

rigonkulous 6mo ago

[flagged]

HybridStatAnim8 6mo ago

That is what CopperheadOS, and now GrapheneOS, provides. Its a level of "battle tested" that most OS and app devs never have the opportunity to have. Deleting the signing keys during a hostile takeover attempt rather than submitting to pressure or greed is an amazing quality that is rare to find.

deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]

goodpoint 6mo ago

Then avoid GrapheneOS

TommyTran732 6mo ago

So what exactly would you have done? Risk the key being taken over by a shady entity? Does the alternative really scream "mature, stable, and thoughtful" to you?

latable 6mo ago

It looks like a very mature action to me: It certainly avoided the compromission of an OS that aims to be secure after all. It is not some windows OS with encryption keys sent to the cloud, so if security is compromised I fully expect targeted devices to break.