4 ms·

Where did influencers come from? They didn't perpetrate the indiscriminate slaughter of an entire people. They certainly didn't cause this war. And when has rep

Where did influencers come from? They didn't perpetrate the indiscriminate slaughter of an entire people. They certainly didn't cause this war. And when has reporting on a genocide ever brought about its conclusion? maybe you could argue this about the bosnian genocide....?

boxed 6mo ago
[flagged]
- ahhhhnoooo 6mo ago
  Right, it's not constrained to Gaza. The genocide against Palestinian people is occurring across the nation of Israel.
  - boxed 6mo ago
    Palestinian muslim arabs are 20% of Israels population. Remind me how many percent of Palestine, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, are Jewish? This is the worst genocide ever. They even have representation in Knesset. They serve in the IDF.
    - newspaper1 6mo ago
      Palestinians,Lebanese and Iranians (of all religions) represent 100% of the victims of Israel’s genocide.
      - boxed 6mo ago
        Isn't that a good thing? Compared to Hamas who murders its own citizens and random christians who are out dancing?
    - ahhhhnoooo 6mo ago
      I can tell you are unable to approach this topic rationally. No one made the claim this is the worse genocide ever. It does not need to rise to that bar to be a genocide. Your hyperbole is not a good faith effort to discuss the topic. And the whataboutism is a deflection. Genocide is bad everywhere it's occurring. Right now it's occurring in many places, one of which is within Israel/Palestine. If you believe it's also happening elsewhere, we should condemn those as well, not absolve the actions of Netanyahu.
      - boxed 6mo ago
        > Your hyperbole is not a good faith effort to discuss the topic I mean.. I think the same about your continued use of the word "genocide" in this war. Israel is fighting a war with human shields being explicitly used basically 100% of the time. Hamas fires missiles from inside refugee camps, and shooting AKs from behind children. Hamas is committing a war crime almost every time they attack at all. They built a tunnel system that could house their entire civilian population, but if a civilian tried to take shelter Hamas shoots them. Civilian casualties was always the goal for Hamas, because the west is predictably fooled by it.
        ahhhhnoooo 6mo ago
        Israel has deployed more explosive munitions by tonnage on the Gaza Strip than were deployed in the entirety of world war 2. In an area smaller than Seattle, with four times the density of civilians and a huge proportion of children. They've deployed white phosphorous. There are IDF soldiers on record saying they've shot children waiting in line for aid, because they drifted inches over the "do not step past this line" mark. Sde Teiman is a torture camp. Hamas is evil, but you can fight evil without those things. I condemn Hamas, but "they did a war crime" is not a justification for total violence of any type as retribution. And what about tolerance of settlers in the West Bank? The removal of journalists? The killing of aid workers? It's not just the Gaza Strip (though what's there is truly beyond the pale.)
        boxed 6mo ago
        > Israel has deployed more explosive munitions by tonnage on the Gaza Strip than were deployed in the entirety of world war 2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_bombing_of_the_Gaza_Strip#:~:text=By%20one%20estimate%2C%20as%20of%20April%C2%A02024%20the%20bomb%20tonnage%20dropped%20on%20Gaza%20was%20more%20than%2070%2C000%20tonnes%2C%5B7%5D%20surpassing%20the%20combined%20bomb%20tonnage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_bombing_of_the_Gaza_St... https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/56193/what-was-the-total-megatonnage-of-all-munitions-expended-in-world-war-2 https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/56193/what-was-t... 0.7 kilotons vs 3000 kilotons. You're off by 4 orders of magnitude. That's pretty bad, even Hamas doesn't lie that badly.
- netsharc 6mo ago
  On the flip side you've either been propagandized to find the slaughter of civilians acceptable ("they were warned!", "they sympathize anyway", etc, etc) or you're doing the propagandizing yourself. Maybe towards yourself, so that you can continue to believe that your defense of said genocide is the right thing.
- atwrk 6mo ago
  I mean the share of civilians killed in the war (by Israel) is over 80 percent of the total casualties. That is worse than the rate in WW2. In Ukraine it's under 5%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war
  - hollerith 6mo ago
    I deplore current Israeli policies, but Ukraine isn't disguising its war fighters as civilians like Hamas is, which is an important qualifier to your numbers.
    - atwrk 6mo ago
      But Russia is doing exactly that systematically for years now, disguising as civilians. I'm also pretty sure Hamas isn't disguising themselves as children, who make up the largest share of the civilian victims.
      - hollerith 6mo ago
        Someone said that Russia has conducted its invasion in a way as to keep civilian casualties to only 5% of Ukrainian casualties. In evaluating that number, it is relevant that Russia's task is made easier by Ukraine's adherence to the widely accepted principle that a war fighter should wear the uniform of the side he is fighting for. In contrast, for the purposes of this thread, it is irrelevant that "Russia is doing exactly that systematically for years now, disguising as civilians" (to quote you). This isn't a contest to see how many negative things we can say about the Russians or the Israelis. Or at least that is not a coversation I would be interested in. I think Israel's actions since Oct 2023 have been deplorable and disgusting. But that doesn't mean I am interested in no nuance at all in discussing how deplorable and disgusting.
      - boxed 6mo ago
        > I'm also pretty sure Hamas isn't disguising themselves as children, who make up the largest share of the civilian victims. Even the very slanted wikipedia article doesn't claim such a crazy thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war They do claim everyone under the age of 18 to be a "child", which I know is the UN definition, but is pretty absurd in this situation with Hamas fighters of 15, 16, and 17 years of age being very common.
- sosomoxie 6mo ago
  Actually the IDF did that.

boxed 6mo ago

[flagged]

ahhhhnoooo 6mo ago
Right, it's not constrained to Gaza. The genocide against Palestinian people is occurring across the nation of Israel.
- boxed 6mo ago
  Palestinian muslim arabs are 20% of Israels population. Remind me how many percent of Palestine, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, are Jewish? This is the worst genocide ever. They even have representation in Knesset. They serve in the IDF.
  - newspaper1 6mo ago
    Palestinians,Lebanese and Iranians (of all religions) represent 100% of the victims of Israel’s genocide.
    - boxed 6mo ago
      Isn't that a good thing? Compared to Hamas who murders its own citizens and random christians who are out dancing?
  - ahhhhnoooo 6mo ago
    I can tell you are unable to approach this topic rationally. No one made the claim this is the worse genocide ever. It does not need to rise to that bar to be a genocide. Your hyperbole is not a good faith effort to discuss the topic. And the whataboutism is a deflection. Genocide is bad everywhere it's occurring. Right now it's occurring in many places, one of which is within Israel/Palestine. If you believe it's also happening elsewhere, we should condemn those as well, not absolve the actions of Netanyahu.
    - boxed 6mo ago
      > Your hyperbole is not a good faith effort to discuss the topic I mean.. I think the same about your continued use of the word "genocide" in this war. Israel is fighting a war with human shields being explicitly used basically 100% of the time. Hamas fires missiles from inside refugee camps, and shooting AKs from behind children. Hamas is committing a war crime almost every time they attack at all. They built a tunnel system that could house their entire civilian population, but if a civilian tried to take shelter Hamas shoots them. Civilian casualties was always the goal for Hamas, because the west is predictably fooled by it.
      - ahhhhnoooo 6mo ago
        Israel has deployed more explosive munitions by tonnage on the Gaza Strip than were deployed in the entirety of world war 2. In an area smaller than Seattle, with four times the density of civilians and a huge proportion of children. They've deployed white phosphorous. There are IDF soldiers on record saying they've shot children waiting in line for aid, because they drifted inches over the "do not step past this line" mark. Sde Teiman is a torture camp. Hamas is evil, but you can fight evil without those things. I condemn Hamas, but "they did a war crime" is not a justification for total violence of any type as retribution. And what about tolerance of settlers in the West Bank? The removal of journalists? The killing of aid workers? It's not just the Gaza Strip (though what's there is truly beyond the pale.)
        boxed 6mo ago
        > Israel has deployed more explosive munitions by tonnage on the Gaza Strip than were deployed in the entirety of world war 2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_bombing_of_the_Gaza_Strip#:~:text=By%20one%20estimate%2C%20as%20of%20April%C2%A02024%20the%20bomb%20tonnage%20dropped%20on%20Gaza%20was%20more%20than%2070%2C000%20tonnes%2C%5B7%5D%20surpassing%20the%20combined%20bomb%20tonnage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_bombing_of_the_Gaza_St... https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/56193/what-was-the-total-megatonnage-of-all-munitions-expended-in-world-war-2 https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/56193/what-was-t... 0.7 kilotons vs 3000 kilotons. You're off by 4 orders of magnitude. That's pretty bad, even Hamas doesn't lie that badly.
netsharc 6mo ago
On the flip side you've either been propagandized to find the slaughter of civilians acceptable ("they were warned!", "they sympathize anyway", etc, etc) or you're doing the propagandizing yourself. Maybe towards yourself, so that you can continue to believe that your defense of said genocide is the right thing.
atwrk 6mo ago
I mean the share of civilians killed in the war (by Israel) is over 80 percent of the total casualties. That is worse than the rate in WW2. In Ukraine it's under 5%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war
- hollerith 6mo ago
  I deplore current Israeli policies, but Ukraine isn't disguising its war fighters as civilians like Hamas is, which is an important qualifier to your numbers.
  - atwrk 6mo ago
    But Russia is doing exactly that systematically for years now, disguising as civilians. I'm also pretty sure Hamas isn't disguising themselves as children, who make up the largest share of the civilian victims.
    - hollerith 6mo ago
      Someone said that Russia has conducted its invasion in a way as to keep civilian casualties to only 5% of Ukrainian casualties. In evaluating that number, it is relevant that Russia's task is made easier by Ukraine's adherence to the widely accepted principle that a war fighter should wear the uniform of the side he is fighting for. In contrast, for the purposes of this thread, it is irrelevant that "Russia is doing exactly that systematically for years now, disguising as civilians" (to quote you). This isn't a contest to see how many negative things we can say about the Russians or the Israelis. Or at least that is not a coversation I would be interested in. I think Israel's actions since Oct 2023 have been deplorable and disgusting. But that doesn't mean I am interested in no nuance at all in discussing how deplorable and disgusting.
    - boxed 6mo ago
      > I'm also pretty sure Hamas isn't disguising themselves as children, who make up the largest share of the civilian victims. Even the very slanted wikipedia article doesn't claim such a crazy thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Gaza_war They do claim everyone under the age of 18 to be a "child", which I know is the UN definition, but is pretty absurd in this situation with Hamas fighters of 15, 16, and 17 years of age being very common.
sosomoxie 6mo ago
Actually the IDF did that.