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Toto's primary sales channel is "If you build a house or office in Japan and don't specifically talk to your architect/contractor about your post-bowel movement
by patio11 14y ago
Toto's primary sales channel is "If you build a house or office in Japan and don't specifically talk to your architect/contractor about your post-bowel movement preferences we will take the liberty of using the most current model Toto has available and then invoice you cost plus labor plus 50%."
Toto does not have that relationship with the person responsible for picking your toilet.
Why does Toto have that relationship with the guy who picked my toilet? They've got a sales rep in Ogaki. His most important job is making sure they know of every business start for a construction company and that every time it happens the company gets a wreath (that's considered auspicious and is socially mandatory to buy when someone close to you starts a shop) and the principals get invited out drinking. Toto is, naturally, buying. The sales guy will not be so gauche as to mention "Say, apropos of nothing, do you do cost-plus projects? We have a proposition for you which will put $100 extra in your pocket for every bathroom you build."
- arrrg 14y agoPeople don’t pick the toilets in their houses? I find that hard to imagine. People not picking the pipes or bricks that are used I can see, but the toilet? No way. Before I buy a toilet I want to at least sit on it and I cannot imagine anyone feeling any other way about that.
- shabble 14y agoThe situation for new builds / speculative construction which are then placed on the market, versus 'having a house built to your specifications', might be some of the difference. Or you (that is, not you or I, but "people") might select a "style" of bathroom or use a particular interior designer whom you trust to make appropriate decisions. If you're not getting an incredibly detailed itemised bill, you might find it tough to spot ~1K extra in 'bathroom furniture and installations'
- lambda 14y agoHow many people build their own house, as opposed to buying one from a previous owner or a developer? Also, remember that not everyone owns their own house. Many people rent apartments or houses from other people, or live with families. Between all of those factors, I would say a very small percentage of toilets in this country were picked out by the person using them.
- arrrg 14y agoHm, you are probably right. My perspective is probably skewed. My grandparents built their own houses (altogether three, actually), my parents built their own house – and they really picked everything down to the “Which toilets should there be?” detail level.
- adestefan 14y agoEven in most custom built homes you only pick the fit and finish and not the actual product. This is mainly done for cost reasons since specific products means you need someone to take the time to review existing plans to make sure everything fits and is spec'ed out properly.
- krschultz 14y agoIn America or in Japan? I know for a fact if you are doing a new build or renovation in America your choice of involvement is entirely up to you. Some people pick out specific shower heads and toilets and tile (even on a $250,000 renovation or million dollar new build). Others let professionals pick and choose what they want. There is an entire industry of show rooms for high end bathrooms and kitchens with salesmen to help you pick out the right bath tub or dishwasher.
- adestefan 14y agoEven those high end show rooms have a limited range of specific manufacturers. Like I said it's mostly fit and finish.
- arrrg 14y agoSee, my perspective is completely skewed. I don’t even know what a custom built home is. I don’t have a house nor any plans to get one but my dad (a civil engineer, usually planning water supply systems) drew up all the plans for my parents’ house and my parents (including the extended family plus friends) really did nearly everything by themselves, and that includes picking out all the interior. Everything is custom about that house. In that context someone telling you which toilet to get is nonsense.
- adestefan 14y agoWhat i'm saying is the customer usually asks for a white toilet that looks like X. The builder says, "Manufacturer Y has something like that. Does this look good?" knowing that manufacturer Y works with his suppliers who will have the exact product at the exact time that they need it. Sure you can go to a builder and say I want this, this, this, and this, but be ready to pay out the nose for someone to do all the work to make sure they show up correctly and at the appropriate time.
- smsm42 14y agoIf you buy a house that is not new, and your toilet is working, replacing it will be definitely not on the top of your list. And since other renovations - which usually matter much more for people take priority. Add to that the fact that "we recently did a new kitchen" sounds much better in conversation that "we recently bought a toilet seat which costs only a little less than a used car" - and here you go. The factor of the cost is important too. For $1700 I could redo a whole room - why would I spend this on a toilet when I already have a perfectly working one? Of course, if money is not an issue, it's different - but for most people money still is the issue.
- smackfu 14y agoPeople tend to have strong preferences about things they don't like in their current place. Like the kitchen layout, or the appliances, or the showerhead. People don't really have that much of a beef with a normal American Standard toilet, so they don't care.
- dagw 14y agoWhen I recently needed a new toilet I simply asked the plumber who would be installing it to swing by the shop and buy me one on the way over. I gave him a price range, told him to use his professional judgement and to bring me the receipt. Having to spend my Saturday schlepping all the way across town just to look at toilets is far too much a waste of my precious weekend.
- pdenya 14y agoMinus the necessity of the wreath, I assume construction managers in the US are equally willing to accept free drinks and an extra $100/per bathroom. Does this not work in the US because it can't be a reasonable default in those types of situations?
- eob 14y agoIt's not a reasonable default because every visitor to your house would make a comment requiring you to justify having "fringe" bathroom habits. Edit: Not every, of course. And the number would vary by region of the US. Excuse the universal quantifier :)
- w1ntermute 14y ago> every visitor to your house would make a comment requiring you to justify having "fringe" bathroom habits. Wouldn't this have been the case in Japan in the early 80s too, when Washlets first came to the market?
- ahlatimer 14y agoWhile discussions of what goes on in the bathroom may make most Americans uncomfortable, it certainly isn't so taboo as to point out a different toilet. Perhaps the Japanese culture is different, such that, while people may have wanted to ask why you have a fringe toilet, social norms kept them from doing so. I'm not Japanese, nor have I spent any time in Japan, so that's purely conjecture, but, knowing what little I know about Japanese culture, that wouldn't strike me as beyond belief.
- Symmetry 14y agoAnecdotally your conjecture is correct.
- jeffool 14y agoSpeaking on cultural differences and American willingness to discuss bathroom culture... I, personally, don't like the idea of a warm seat. All I'll be thinking about is "someone else just used this toilet". Maybe one day I'll use one and it'll change my outlook completely, like the George Foreman grill nudged my outlook on the validity of infomercial products. But, until that happens? Nope, no thanks.
- ksmiley 14y agoNice insight on the sales approach. Is there any particular reason that this technique doesn't work outside of Japan? American construction companies might not care about a wreath, but surely drinking and promises of additional profits would be universally effective.
- incision 14y ago>Is there any particular reason that this technique doesn't work outside of Japan? American construction companies might not care about a wreath, but surely drinking and promises of additional profits would be universally effective. It does work outside of Japan. The relationship of "enterprise" software company to partner VAR to enterprise works much the same way, drinks and all.
- FrankBooth 14y agoSteak and strippers.
- yozmsn 14y agoI know that this practice is outlawed for doctors and Pharma companies, the most they can give doctors these days are some free pens and drug samples :P
- johnrgrace 14y agoYes it does work, it's why trade shows are in las vegas and other "fun" places. A dozen cupcake and bottle of scotch once saved me $5k in a deal.
- taigeair 14y agoAre these popular anywhere else besides Japan? That would be interesting to know. Maybe it's a Japanese thing. It's like asking why we don't use arabic toilets...
- irahul 14y agoWhy do you need to go through Toto? Installing a simple comod with a hand hold bidet http://handspray.com.au/images/retro-hand-spray-bidet/retro-handheld-bidet-installed.jpg http://handspray.com.au/images/retro-hand-spray-bidet/retro-... (or attached depending on your preference) can be done by a run of the mill contractor. It looks like it's perceived as a modern, costly setup in Japan(and the thing shown in the article is expensive) but the simple comod-bidet setup is inexpensive. It's quite common in India.
- notdrunkatall 14y agoQuite common in Thailand too, and as anyone who's ever used one knows, they are far superior to toilet paper. I've been meaning to install my own sink sprayer next to my toilet for a while now. Guess I should get to it.