7 ms·

Could this not have been simply an instinct to find cleaner waters? I'm surprised they didn't add another control group which injected something unpleasant that

Could this not have been simply an instinct to find cleaner waters? I'm surprised they didn't add another control group which injected something unpleasant that could be naturally found in an area, but would be undesirable - ammonia, some sort of acid, or something along those lines.

anthonj 6mo ago
The title ie a bit misleading: The study want to prove that cocaine is yet another polluter thar alters the fish behaviour even in the small quantities that can be found in the wild in polluted areas. Not that something is special or different about cocaine pollution. So the control group in this case are fishes with an implant with no drug at all. https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(26)00315-5 https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(26)...
kees99 6mo ago
Agree with your point overall, but ammonia in particular is a poor example. Fish lack urea cycle, so they produce and excrete significant amounts of ammonia as part of normal metabolism.
gus_massa 6mo ago
At very low doses, for example chewing the leaves of coke instead of using the high purified version, it's somewhat like drinking a coffee [1]. I expect the fish to be more active. A coffee patch would be a nice 4th group as another control. [1] Chewing the leaves of coke is common in many countries of South America, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acullico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acullico
- tomalbrc 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - defrost 6mo ago
    > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. ~ Hacker News Guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - gus_massa 6mo ago
    Because even in low concentrations, I expect cocaine to have a different effect than Valium. (And in both case I expect a different effect at high concentrations.)
  - rcbdev 6mo ago
    What the fuck is your problem?
- randerson 6mo ago
  Coffee can do strange things to animals. There's a study where NASA gave various drugs to spiders to see how it affected their webs[0]. Coffee had a stranger effect on the web than marijuana. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20210327150247/https://arachnidlady.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/nasa-tech-brief.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20210327150247/https://arachnidl...
  - radlad 6mo ago
    More than anything this seems like a good reminder that spiders aren't human.
    - burnte 6mo ago
      And that can be easy to forget in this fast paced world.
    - celticninja 6mo ago
      what about spiderman?
  - Lio 6mo ago
    Obligatory reference to this classic wildlife film from the Canadian Wildlife Service in Ottawa. It's almost unbelievable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2HipedgM3I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2HipedgM3I
  - RajT88 6mo ago
    Salient point: Caffeine is a chemical that plants evolved multiple times independently as an insecticide.
Zigurd 6mo ago
There's a big data set for cocaine. It comes from wastewater based epidemiology (WBE) studies.

anthonj 6mo ago

The title ie a bit misleading: The study want to prove that cocaine is yet another polluter thar alters the fish behaviour even in the small quantities that can be found in the wild in polluted areas. Not that something is special or different about cocaine pollution. So the control group in this case are fishes with an implant with no drug at all. https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(26)00315-5 https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(26)...

kees99 6mo ago

Agree with your point overall, but ammonia in particular is a poor example. Fish lack urea cycle, so they produce and excrete significant amounts of ammonia as part of normal metabolism.

gus_massa 6mo ago

At very low doses, for example chewing the leaves of coke instead of using the high purified version, it's somewhat like drinking a coffee [1]. I expect the fish to be more active. A coffee patch would be a nice 4th group as another control. [1] Chewing the leaves of coke is common in many countries of South America, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acullico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acullico

tomalbrc 6mo ago
[flagged]
- defrost 6mo ago
  > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes. ~ Hacker News Guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- gus_massa 6mo ago
  Because even in low concentrations, I expect cocaine to have a different effect than Valium. (And in both case I expect a different effect at high concentrations.)
- rcbdev 6mo ago
  What the fuck is your problem?
randerson 6mo ago
Coffee can do strange things to animals. There's a study where NASA gave various drugs to spiders to see how it affected their webs[0]. Coffee had a stranger effect on the web than marijuana. [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20210327150247/https://arachnidlady.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/nasa-tech-brief.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20210327150247/https://arachnidl...
- radlad 6mo ago
  More than anything this seems like a good reminder that spiders aren't human.
  - burnte 6mo ago
    And that can be easy to forget in this fast paced world.
  - celticninja 6mo ago
    what about spiderman?
- Lio 6mo ago
  Obligatory reference to this classic wildlife film from the Canadian Wildlife Service in Ottawa. It's almost unbelievable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2HipedgM3I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2HipedgM3I
- RajT88 6mo ago
  Salient point: Caffeine is a chemical that plants evolved multiple times independently as an insecticide.

Zigurd 6mo ago

There's a big data set for cocaine. It comes from wastewater based epidemiology (WBE) studies.