7 ms·

Monero Community Crowdfunding System

161 points by OsrsNeedsf2P 6mo ago

Cider9986 6mo ago
Monero has consistently exceeded the rest of crypto in community, integrity to mission, and use-case. True digital cash. FCMP++ upgrade will be huge for sender privacy bringing Monero's technical strength in line with ZCash. The new site[1] looks great as well; it was funded by the CCS. [1] https://getmonero-redesign-impl.vercel.app/ https://getmonero-redesign-impl.vercel.app/
- mothballed 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Cider9986 6mo ago
    For business acceptance, I see how it would be hard if it is impossible to use on a CEX. I think that Haveno/RetoSwap will eventually become the preferred and more convenient Fiat-->Monero method instead of CEXs for the avg user. Overall though I would even prefer to use a stable than a bank or fiat p2p app to send money. >They've failed horribly at meeting the regulatory and political challenges of being tradeable on central exchanges and as a result has met weak acceptance from crypto-friendly legal vendors making it harder to use as actual digital cash. Despite this, everywhere it is accepted, it becomes the largest marketshare crypto payment method, excluding whales.
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  - Acrobatic_Road 6mo ago
    What are they supposed to do? How can they make governments happy without sacrificing privacy?
    - mothballed 6mo ago
      Regulatory capture would be the traditional way
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
    - matheusmoreira 6mo ago
      > How can they make governments happy That's the wrong question. Nobody cares how the elites in the government feel. They exist to serve us. That is the only reason they have any power at all. The right question is: how can we make it mathematically impossible for the government to oppress us in any way, regardless of how much they seethe and rage about it? Their happiness does not matter. In fact their anger is probably a good sign that the technology is working as intended. The angrier they get, the freer you are.
      - lynx97 6mo ago
        > The angrier they get, the freer you are. The angrier they get, the higher is the chance that they make your technical solution illegal. What, you're using technology that might endanger children? All the concerned parents are suddenly your enemoies, democratically speaking. What? Your technology can be used to do money laundering? And you're using it still? You can now anonymously pay only darknet vendors and other shady bussinesses. Have your anonymity, but cut off from the rest of "good" society. Given the original motivation to actually invent crypto, I am surprised it wasn't outlawed a long time ago. No goverment likes to be overthrown...
        matheusmoreira 6mo ago
        It's just the usual politico-technological arms race. Governments make laws, people make technology that works around the laws in such a way that the government can do nothing about it. Governments must continuously increase their tyranny in order to maintain the exact same level of control they used to have before. There are two possible outcomes: a free and uncontrollable population emancipated by ubiquitous subversive technology, or a totalitarian government so oppressive that even your concerned parents feel the weight of its boot on their faces. It's my sincere hope that we'll discover the true limits of the government's tyranny in the process. The harsh truth is people need to accept the existence of some amount of crime if they want to live with basic human dignity. It's just like how the banking industry accepts some degree of fraud as a business expense. They could stamp it out, but the security requirements would add so much friction to everyday transactions nobody would buy anything.
  - loloquwowndueo 6mo ago
    Pardon, the “autistic” point of view?
    - mothballed 6mo ago
      In this case, I mean a narrowed focus (in this case, on technical qualities) to the point it is maladaptive for the underlying stated goal ("digital cash"). A survey of cryptocurrencies showed monero has failed to achieve this goal of being a superior form of digital cash, relative to most other crypto currencies in similar 'weight class' of market cap and years available. This failure isn't technical, it's due to relative weaknesses in the realms of politics and soft social influence. Even the lower market cap LTC is more accepted as 'cash' by most legal vendors. ----------- re: below muh sources getmonero.org, OPs referenced website, advertises cryptwerk as a good directory. Go to https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/ https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/ and compare it to https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/ltc/ https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/ltc/. There are ~twice as many for LTC for example, and that's being charitable with something with a lower market cap rather than BTC which is like 3+ times as many.
      - Cider9986 6mo ago
        Do you have a source to back up this claim? There are thousands[1] of legal businesses that accept Monero. [1] https://monerica.com https://monerica.com, https://kycnot.me https://kycnot.me
        mothballed 6mo ago
        (1) Go to the monero website you cited.[0] (2) The top merchant directory recommended was 'cryptwerk'. Follow that through (3) Compare https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/ https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/ to https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/ltc/ https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/ltc/. (4) Note there are 2x vendor for lower market cap LTC, 3x as many for higher market cap BTC. Note this directory was chosen by monero people themselves, so I'm not cherry picking something gaming the merchant list against monero. There is a pretty consistent survey of XMR performing weaker than similar class assets in spending at crypto accepting vendors. (Note I had to reply above earlier because my account was throttled) [0] https://getmonero-redesign-impl.vercel.app/get-started/merchants/ https://getmonero-redesign-impl.vercel.app/get-started/merch...
  - hypeatei 6mo ago
    > of being tradeable on central exchanges That's a good signal that the privacy guarantees are real, no? It's no secret that the main use-case for crypto is skirting the legal system; I'm not sure I understand this desire to make it anything bigger than that. For example, it's extremely hard to Be Your Own Bank because one mistake means you've just lost all your funds whether it's from a scam, malware, or losing your wallet seed phrase. Large amounts of people "being their own bank" by putting their life savings into crypto would be a disaster.
  - Cider9986 6mo ago
    Cash would "fail horribly at meeting the regulatory and political challenges challenges today". And some countries are trying to make it harder to use.
    - mothballed 6mo ago
      Yes but fortunately we have other points of comparison and I was making a relative analysis. Legal vendors who take crypto are more likely to accept even the lower market cap LTC in most cases than XMR. XMR is one of the weakest performers as spending cash on legal goods and service amongst crypto assets of similar financial "weight class." The technical superiority and features on many points seem to be unable to overcome this.
      - stavros 6mo ago
        That's because anonymity is the entire point of Monero. Of course legal vendors don't like anonymity, every government wants to be able to track every transaction anywhere. Saying Monero hasn't been able "to overcome this" is like saying boats have been unable to overcome driving on roads. Technically true, but very much not the point.
  - matheusmoreira 6mo ago
    > regulatory and political challenges Not bending down to the financial arm of warrantless global mass surveillance is a feature, not a bug. > being tradeable on central exchanges Central exchanges are banks in disguise. They should not exist.
    - mothballed 6mo ago
      A key feature of cash is its ability to pass through and into the KYC/AML panopticon where (edit: to make it clear what the "KYC/AML panopticon" meant -- after being deposited in a bank) you can buy things like real estate and heavy capital equipment. If you can't prove chain of custody of source of funds and source of wealth, you're effectively shut off from a wide amount of transactions. At least in the West. If you go to someplace like Dubai it is no problem.
      - matheusmoreira 6mo ago
        > A key feature of cash is its ability to pass through and into the KYC/AML panopticon where you can buy things like real estate and heavy capital equipment. My country is in the process of criminalizing the purchase of real estate with cash. Laws have been proposed to that end. Politicians have also proposed restricting the amount of "unexplained" physical cash the population is "allowed" to hold. This is your future if you don't resist. > If you can't prove chain of custody of source of funds and source of wealth You shouldn't have to "prove" anything. What a bunch of nonsense.
      - estearum 6mo ago
        I'm confused your argument is that Monero fails at doing a thing that cash also fails at, which is making large purchases without chain of custody/source of funds?
        mothballed 6mo ago
        No my argument is Monero fails in practice relatively worse than similar 'weight class' crypto currency assets at actually spending 'digital cash' (presumably a desirable quality of 'cash') to make legal purchases from crypto accepting sellers. This is quite evident if you survey available offerings -- vendors are far more likely to accept even the lower cap litecoin than monero (even the 'cryptwerk' website advertised by getmonero shows 2x as many vedors accepting LTC). I do postulate that the fact it is easier to show chain of custody to the point it satisfies banks and regulated entities as part of this (even if through chain-analysis mumbo jumbo), thus other crypto currencies have lent more towards accessing more purchases in a way cash idealizes to do. At no point was my argument simply monero fails at the same thing a pile of cash dropped through the sky might fail at and that's the end of it. I think that's a pretty silly portrayal of what I've said, made in bad faith. Although in reality I've had my cex account frozen almost every single time I've tried depositing very low, 3 digit amounts of XMR (including frozen for years) whereas you can somewhat reliably put $200-$1000 in a bank in place like USA and then use that as part of purchase that goes through KYC/AML channels. Now if you do want to compare, say, a pile of cash falling out of the sky, vs a pile of bitcoin, vs a pile of monero and you wanted to spend it on something big that went through KYC/AML compliance. In order of what would be easiest to spend, assuming the money actually came from a legal source. Bitcoin would be the easiest to spend because you have some chance at showing it came straight from a KYC'd source because of the plaintext blockchain, next would be cash (largely for historical reasons), the hardest to actually spend would be the monero. Now if we presume matheusmoreira point about banks was just a red herring, then your follow on is just one too, since the bit regarding KYC/AML compliance purchases/transactions was a response to that.
  - GolfPopper 6mo ago
    I had not paid any attention to Monero amid the storm of cryptocurrencies and related scams, but thanks to your recommendation here, I will be checking it outmn
    - Cider9986 6mo ago
      Drop an address and I will send you a small amount for your first transaction.
  - s5300 6mo ago
    [dead]
- Dig1t 6mo ago
  Very awesome set of replies you’ve left in this thread. So nice to see. I will be buying some Monero for the first time because of this thread.
  - Cider9986 6mo ago
    I'm glad you gained something! Welcome to Monero! Drop a Monero address here and I'll send you a tiny amount for your first transaction. I recommend CakeWallet, which is cross-platform, user friendly, and does a lot of good for the community, but any of the wallets recommended on the official[1] website are fine. p.s. you or anyone can reach out via my contacts in bio if you have any questions about Monero. [1] https://cakewallet.com/ https://cakewallet.com/ [2] https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/ https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/
    - zhouzhao 6mo ago
      I would actually recommend to just use a hardware wallet. The monero-cli or the Monero GUI-Wallet are sufficient. Just drop your wallet onto an USB stick with LUKS encryption. Get your recovery seed + wallet height written by hand and bury them somewhere in your garden, or your parents garden in safe box. Drop me your address, and I will also send a little bit your way, to get you hooked!
      - arcmutex 6mo ago
        Cypherpunks write code. 45nQZrXEDSL8UPj7DeJRrcdFkAteCajG4bGGsQP7cmWwiZU63dpfWe9RPpas38BAU4Kwv5NSKBsnacXewQszMhrx7fgTQLe
        rationalist 6mo ago
        Your username does not match with the person the offer was made to. Please do not beg for money here.
    - Dig1t 6mo ago
      Thank you for that offer, that's very kind of you. My new address is 49jUau1t16ZPtBNFaJ2o5eW79x6Fui14AbqwQyovBe2V6LdwgWrHkniWTV9dj7tAY8SRxsshkmQEwLCBYUvPFEkZBJGZt6n Where do you recommend trading dollars -> Monero?
thatmf 6mo ago
[flagged]
- Cider9986 6mo ago
  Monero is the only real CRYPTO currency. Please look into the benefits. Consider the upsides. I have considered the downsides. Try to understand the importance of Cash and private money and its role in a free society. I get that you were swept up in that period when crypto got bashed left and right. I agree, there are a lot of problems with crypto and 99% of cryptos are scams, but Monero has a huge use case for internet money. Monero is creating whole new parallel economies[1] and protecting activists and everyday people that value privacy. [1] https://xmrbazaar.com/ https://xmrbazaar.com/, https://monerica.com/ https://monerica.com/
  - the_real_cher 6mo ago
    I think it's philosophically closest to Satoshis dream
  - _-_-__-_-_- 6mo ago
    Visiting those linked websites, they feel sketchy. It seems they are offering gift cards and different pirated digital goods in exchange for Monero. Red flags all around.
    - Cider9986 6mo ago
      Monero is a community project. There are no official websites, only community contributions and consensus. Sure, some sketchy sites are inevitably going to be listed on Monerica, but it lists which have been verified as working by the site owner, and they show reports of scams. Here[1] you can see a list of projects that accept Monero donations. xmrbazaar allows only legal listings, it is by no means a DNM, but it is a free market. There are multi-sig wallets with mediators to prevent scamming by either party, and there is a reputation system. Yeah, some of the boosted listings are for financial services; I see plenty of sketchy listings on FB marketplace. Examples of normal listings: See these eggs[2], real estate[3], italian meat[4]. [1] https://monerica.com/non-profits https://monerica.com/non-profits [2] https://xmrbazaar.com/listing/yWKK/ https://xmrbazaar.com/listing/yWKK/ [3] https://xmrbazaar.com/listing/kAEU/ https://xmrbazaar.com/listing/kAEU/ [4] https://xmrbazaar.com/listing/cdpN/ https://xmrbazaar.com/listing/cdpN/
andai 6mo ago
https://archive.is/Vhzng https://archive.is/Vhzng
cyberax 6mo ago
[flagged]
- Cider9986 6mo ago
  Privacy tools will be used in ethical and non-ethical ways. I get that it is annoying that crypto facilitates cybercrime, but that is the cost of privacy for everyone. Everyone gets those rights, because there is no other way. I will say that Monero is vastly used for ethical purposes[1]. I guess encryption shouldn't exist because cybercriminals use it to communicate privately. Privacy is a human right, and payments are essential to modern life. Also, good luck on "crash and burn", Monero has been going steady, being the most freedom protecting crypto, for 12 years, celebrating its 12th birthday two days ago. [1] My emotional reaction to your comment, https://xmrbazaar.com/ https://xmrbazaar.com/, https://monerica.com/ https://monerica.com/
  - cyberax 6mo ago
    > Privacy tools will be used in ethical and non-ethical ways. Monero is not a privacy tool. It's a criminal money laundering tool. So far, the *coin ecosystem has given us nothing _but_ negatives. It's kinda unique in that regard. > I guess encryption shouldn't exist because cybercriminals use it to communicate privately. Privacy is a human right, and payments are essential to modern life. Privacy is, money laundering isn't.
    - oompydoompy74 6mo ago
      A tool should not be regulated based on what it can do. Regulating tools rather than the action or intention of a person or group is inherently backwards and wrong imo.
      - cyberax 6mo ago
        > A tool should not be regulated based on what it can do. They should be regulated on their primary purpose in practice and the damage that they cause. And Monero is unwilling or unable to police itself, even as it does damage that dwarfs pretty much any other computing technology. And not just nebulous "missed sale" damage, but very real damage that often results in dead people and ruined lives. > Regulating tools rather than the action or intention of a person or group is inherently backwards and wrong imo. We absolutely regulate tools that can inflict a disproportionate amount of damage. For example, I can't just buy high explosives even if I just want to do a cool video of me launching a manhole cover into the air. Or nuclear materials. Or surface-to-air missiles. Or....
selectively 6mo ago
[flagged]
- the_real_cher 6mo ago
  Like they banned music and movie pirating?
- eYrKEC2 6mo ago
  Right, because if we can trust centralized control, we can't trust anything. Bring on the social credit!
consumer451 6mo ago
Would someone please explain to me the pros and cons of this existing?
- cowpig 6mo ago
  pro: if the world devolves into an authoritarean hellscape, people will still have a form of undetectable currency until they find a way to get rid of this con: this improves the chances if the world to devolving into an authoritarean hellscape
  - rationalist 6mo ago
    Moreso than controllable, trackable money helps the world devolve "into an authoritarean hellscape"?
- Cider9986 6mo ago
  Do you already know how a regular Cryptocurrency works and want to know about Monero specifically? Or do you not know anything about Crypto?
  - consumer451 6mo ago
    I am very aware of cryptocurrency, some of the intricacies, and possibly most of the use cases. I asked an honest question about the pros and cons. Every technology has pros and cons, right?
    - ofrzeta 6mo ago
      Monero is the most anonymous of the mainstream cryptocurrencies. That's also the reason why it is increasingly outlawed (at least in the EU).
      - deleted 6mo ago
        [deleted]
      - 6mo ago
OutOfHere 6mo ago
Monero needs to step up for quantum safety, not by replacing the existing encryption, but by adding a quantum safety encryption layer on top. Google's recent paper on quantum risks to cryptocurrencies had identified Monero as being at risk. This is not tomorrow's problem; it requires initiating action today, so these efforts can bear fruit by the time the quantum hardware is ready, perhaps by 2029.
- littlecranky67 6mo ago
  All coins are aware of quantum safety requirements, yet quantum computers are still far enough in the future that it makes sense to wait, and first see what those post-quantum mitigations should look like.
  - OutOfHere 6mo ago
    Burying the head in the sand doesn't work. Quantum-safe algorithm candidates exist. Post-quantum cryptography is a bonafide field with families of algorithms that exist, e.g. lattice/hash/code/multivariate based. If a user has to choose between two cryptocurrencies, one of which is quantum safe and the other isn't, the user will choose the one that is. The ultimate choice of algorithm doesn't have to be finalized right now; that will remain a work in progress for decades, but getting there is not a one-hop journey. For comparison, XRP already has a roadmap: https://cryptonews.com/news/ripple-post-quantum-readiness-xrp-ledger/ https://cryptonews.com/news/ripple-post-quantum-readiness-xr...
    - littlecranky67 6mo ago
      Because XRP is not decentralized, it will be easy to upgrade. With bitcoin, you have to convinve the node runners to upgrade - which means the taken patchset must be sound and verified in depth beforehand.
      - OutOfHere 6mo ago
        We are on a Monero thread. It has scheduled forks.
resonious 6mo ago
I'll echo the sentiment that Monero seems like the "best" cryptocurrency in that it has all of the benefits of Bitcoin + actual privacy. And interestingly, it's one of the least-used least-hyped options. It's as though we didn't actually want privacy in our money system. I think a hint into this is actually in one of these posted features: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/651 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/me... One of the reasons for building a proper payments system is "Casino games"...
- littlecranky67 6mo ago
  Privacy is available in bitcoin as a layer-2 solution such as Lightning. When Trump made the popular and media-broadcast bitcoin transaction during his campaign, he did so over lightning. Privacy alone is thus not a big reason to abandon bitcoin and move over to another chain.
- puskavi 6mo ago
  Its been made very difficult to actually buy it
  - ddtaylor 6mo ago
    You can go to an ATM and purchase a coin and use a DEX to convert almost instantly.
    - catapart 6mo ago
      wouldn't that defeat the privacy purpose? wouldn't someone be able to see that it was your card in the ATM, when they traced back the monero as exchanged for a coin that was exchanged for your fiat? ETA: just to be clear - that's a genuine question. I don't know much about monero, so if it really is possible to have untraceable money, that seems like a prudent investment for precaution. I've just always assumed that digital money is inherently traceable, so I always assumed genuine privacy is a mirage. I assume I'm wrong about that, somehow, so I'm curious about the mechanisms of that anonymity.
grigio 6mo ago
Monero is what Bitcoin wanted to be
- littlecranky67 6mo ago
  Monero has fixed inflation baked in, so no.
  - rationalist 6mo ago
    > fixed inflation It looks like you're referring to the tail emission which solves the problem that Bitcoin has. Also, it is a small fixed amount of "coins", so the actual inflation rate approaches zero. I think your comment is what they call "F.U.D."
    - littlecranky67 6mo ago
      > so the actual inflation rate approaches zero. Now THAT is FUD. Current annual inflation rate is 0.84191433% [0]. That is massive and not "approaches zero". The value of Monero over n-years thus approaches zero over time, for big enough n. While that is a little under 1%, it is still inflation. The ECB targets on average 2% inflation (while before COVID the ECB targeted maximum of 2% - so actually close to the Monero inflation). [0]: https://p2pool.io/tail.html https://p2pool.io/tail.html
      - rationalist 6mo ago
        Thank you? It looks like we have different definitions of "massive". You also say it does not approach zero, but in the following sentence you do say it approaches zero. I guess people need to decide if inflationary money is better or worse than deflationary money, and what amount of inflation is appropriate. Personally, without too much thought: I think a monetary inflation rate should correlate with the population inflation rate, so that it's value remains somewhat constant (I'm open to changing this opinion with more information).
    - sph 6mo ago
hoppp 6mo ago
They only fund friends and are quite sketchy so the CCS is not the best thing ever
- Cider9986 6mo ago
  Even if that was true. Are you saying that EVERYONE that gets funded was there from the start of Monero, 12 years ago, and is part of this secret club? Since that is obviously not true, if "they only fund friends", then I guess people must be able to make new friends.
  - hoppp 6mo ago
    Yeah, they make new friends too but yes its a secret and exclusive club. Just look into cypherstack and the "paid" ccs employees. All the people who get huge grants are insiders.

161 points by OsrsNeedsf2P 6mo ago

Monero has consistently exceeded the rest of crypto in community, integrity to mission, and use-case. True digital cash. FCMP++ upgrade will be huge for sender privacy bringing Monero's technical strength in line with ZCash. The new site[1] looks great as well; it was funded by the CCS. [1] https://getmonero-redesign-impl.vercel.app/ https://getmonero-redesign-impl.vercel.app/

mothballed 6mo ago
[flagged]
- Cider9986 6mo ago
  For business acceptance, I see how it would be hard if it is impossible to use on a CEX. I think that Haveno/RetoSwap will eventually become the preferred and more convenient Fiat-->Monero method instead of CEXs for the avg user. Overall though I would even prefer to use a stable than a bank or fiat p2p app to send money. >They've failed horribly at meeting the regulatory and political challenges of being tradeable on central exchanges and as a result has met weak acceptance from crypto-friendly legal vendors making it harder to use as actual digital cash. Despite this, everywhere it is accepted, it becomes the largest marketshare crypto payment method, excluding whales.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- Acrobatic_Road 6mo ago
  What are they supposed to do? How can they make governments happy without sacrificing privacy?
  - mothballed 6mo ago
    Regulatory capture would be the traditional way
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  - matheusmoreira 6mo ago
    > How can they make governments happy That's the wrong question. Nobody cares how the elites in the government feel. They exist to serve us. That is the only reason they have any power at all. The right question is: how can we make it mathematically impossible for the government to oppress us in any way, regardless of how much they seethe and rage about it? Their happiness does not matter. In fact their anger is probably a good sign that the technology is working as intended. The angrier they get, the freer you are.
    - lynx97 6mo ago
      > The angrier they get, the freer you are. The angrier they get, the higher is the chance that they make your technical solution illegal. What, you're using technology that might endanger children? All the concerned parents are suddenly your enemoies, democratically speaking. What? Your technology can be used to do money laundering? And you're using it still? You can now anonymously pay only darknet vendors and other shady bussinesses. Have your anonymity, but cut off from the rest of "good" society. Given the original motivation to actually invent crypto, I am surprised it wasn't outlawed a long time ago. No goverment likes to be overthrown...
      - matheusmoreira 6mo ago
        It's just the usual politico-technological arms race. Governments make laws, people make technology that works around the laws in such a way that the government can do nothing about it. Governments must continuously increase their tyranny in order to maintain the exact same level of control they used to have before. There are two possible outcomes: a free and uncontrollable population emancipated by ubiquitous subversive technology, or a totalitarian government so oppressive that even your concerned parents feel the weight of its boot on their faces. It's my sincere hope that we'll discover the true limits of the government's tyranny in the process. The harsh truth is people need to accept the existence of some amount of crime if they want to live with basic human dignity. It's just like how the banking industry accepts some degree of fraud as a business expense. They could stamp it out, but the security requirements would add so much friction to everyday transactions nobody would buy anything.
- loloquwowndueo 6mo ago
  Pardon, the “autistic” point of view?
  - mothballed 6mo ago
    In this case, I mean a narrowed focus (in this case, on technical qualities) to the point it is maladaptive for the underlying stated goal ("digital cash"). A survey of cryptocurrencies showed monero has failed to achieve this goal of being a superior form of digital cash, relative to most other crypto currencies in similar 'weight class' of market cap and years available. This failure isn't technical, it's due to relative weaknesses in the realms of politics and soft social influence. Even the lower market cap LTC is more accepted as 'cash' by most legal vendors. ----------- re: below muh sources getmonero.org, OPs referenced website, advertises cryptwerk as a good directory. Go to https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/ https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/ and compare it to https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/ltc/ https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/ltc/. There are ~twice as many for LTC for example, and that's being charitable with something with a lower market cap rather than BTC which is like 3+ times as many.
    - Cider9986 6mo ago
      Do you have a source to back up this claim? There are thousands[1] of legal businesses that accept Monero. [1] https://monerica.com https://monerica.com, https://kycnot.me https://kycnot.me
      - mothballed 6mo ago
        (1) Go to the monero website you cited.[0] (2) The top merchant directory recommended was 'cryptwerk'. Follow that through (3) Compare https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/ https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/ to https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/ltc/ https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/ltc/. (4) Note there are 2x vendor for lower market cap LTC, 3x as many for higher market cap BTC. Note this directory was chosen by monero people themselves, so I'm not cherry picking something gaming the merchant list against monero. There is a pretty consistent survey of XMR performing weaker than similar class assets in spending at crypto accepting vendors. (Note I had to reply above earlier because my account was throttled) [0] https://getmonero-redesign-impl.vercel.app/get-started/merchants/ https://getmonero-redesign-impl.vercel.app/get-started/merch...
- hypeatei 6mo ago
  > of being tradeable on central exchanges That's a good signal that the privacy guarantees are real, no? It's no secret that the main use-case for crypto is skirting the legal system; I'm not sure I understand this desire to make it anything bigger than that. For example, it's extremely hard to Be Your Own Bank because one mistake means you've just lost all your funds whether it's from a scam, malware, or losing your wallet seed phrase. Large amounts of people "being their own bank" by putting their life savings into crypto would be a disaster.
- Cider9986 6mo ago
  Cash would "fail horribly at meeting the regulatory and political challenges challenges today". And some countries are trying to make it harder to use.
  - mothballed 6mo ago
    Yes but fortunately we have other points of comparison and I was making a relative analysis. Legal vendors who take crypto are more likely to accept even the lower market cap LTC in most cases than XMR. XMR is one of the weakest performers as spending cash on legal goods and service amongst crypto assets of similar financial "weight class." The technical superiority and features on many points seem to be unable to overcome this.
    - stavros 6mo ago
      That's because anonymity is the entire point of Monero. Of course legal vendors don't like anonymity, every government wants to be able to track every transaction anywhere. Saying Monero hasn't been able "to overcome this" is like saying boats have been unable to overcome driving on roads. Technically true, but very much not the point.
- matheusmoreira 6mo ago
  > regulatory and political challenges Not bending down to the financial arm of warrantless global mass surveillance is a feature, not a bug. > being tradeable on central exchanges Central exchanges are banks in disguise. They should not exist.
  - mothballed 6mo ago
    A key feature of cash is its ability to pass through and into the KYC/AML panopticon where (edit: to make it clear what the "KYC/AML panopticon" meant -- after being deposited in a bank) you can buy things like real estate and heavy capital equipment. If you can't prove chain of custody of source of funds and source of wealth, you're effectively shut off from a wide amount of transactions. At least in the West. If you go to someplace like Dubai it is no problem.
    - matheusmoreira 6mo ago
      > A key feature of cash is its ability to pass through and into the KYC/AML panopticon where you can buy things like real estate and heavy capital equipment. My country is in the process of criminalizing the purchase of real estate with cash. Laws have been proposed to that end. Politicians have also proposed restricting the amount of "unexplained" physical cash the population is "allowed" to hold. This is your future if you don't resist. > If you can't prove chain of custody of source of funds and source of wealth You shouldn't have to "prove" anything. What a bunch of nonsense.
    - estearum 6mo ago
      I'm confused your argument is that Monero fails at doing a thing that cash also fails at, which is making large purchases without chain of custody/source of funds?
      - mothballed 6mo ago
        No my argument is Monero fails in practice relatively worse than similar 'weight class' crypto currency assets at actually spending 'digital cash' (presumably a desirable quality of 'cash') to make legal purchases from crypto accepting sellers. This is quite evident if you survey available offerings -- vendors are far more likely to accept even the lower cap litecoin than monero (even the 'cryptwerk' website advertised by getmonero shows 2x as many vedors accepting LTC). I do postulate that the fact it is easier to show chain of custody to the point it satisfies banks and regulated entities as part of this (even if through chain-analysis mumbo jumbo), thus other crypto currencies have lent more towards accessing more purchases in a way cash idealizes to do. At no point was my argument simply monero fails at the same thing a pile of cash dropped through the sky might fail at and that's the end of it. I think that's a pretty silly portrayal of what I've said, made in bad faith. Although in reality I've had my cex account frozen almost every single time I've tried depositing very low, 3 digit amounts of XMR (including frozen for years) whereas you can somewhat reliably put $200-$1000 in a bank in place like USA and then use that as part of purchase that goes through KYC/AML channels. Now if you do want to compare, say, a pile of cash falling out of the sky, vs a pile of bitcoin, vs a pile of monero and you wanted to spend it on something big that went through KYC/AML compliance. In order of what would be easiest to spend, assuming the money actually came from a legal source. Bitcoin would be the easiest to spend because you have some chance at showing it came straight from a KYC'd source because of the plaintext blockchain, next would be cash (largely for historical reasons), the hardest to actually spend would be the monero. Now if we presume matheusmoreira point about banks was just a red herring, then your follow on is just one too, since the bit regarding KYC/AML compliance purchases/transactions was a response to that.
- GolfPopper 6mo ago
  I had not paid any attention to Monero amid the storm of cryptocurrencies and related scams, but thanks to your recommendation here, I will be checking it outmn
  - Cider9986 6mo ago
    Drop an address and I will send you a small amount for your first transaction.
- s5300 6mo ago
  [dead]
Dig1t 6mo ago
Very awesome set of replies you’ve left in this thread. So nice to see. I will be buying some Monero for the first time because of this thread.
- Cider9986 6mo ago
  I'm glad you gained something! Welcome to Monero! Drop a Monero address here and I'll send you a tiny amount for your first transaction. I recommend CakeWallet, which is cross-platform, user friendly, and does a lot of good for the community, but any of the wallets recommended on the official[1] website are fine. p.s. you or anyone can reach out via my contacts in bio if you have any questions about Monero. [1] https://cakewallet.com/ https://cakewallet.com/ [2] https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/ https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/
  - zhouzhao 6mo ago
    I would actually recommend to just use a hardware wallet. The monero-cli or the Monero GUI-Wallet are sufficient. Just drop your wallet onto an USB stick with LUKS encryption. Get your recovery seed + wallet height written by hand and bury them somewhere in your garden, or your parents garden in safe box. Drop me your address, and I will also send a little bit your way, to get you hooked!
    - arcmutex 6mo ago
      Cypherpunks write code. 45nQZrXEDSL8UPj7DeJRrcdFkAteCajG4bGGsQP7cmWwiZU63dpfWe9RPpas38BAU4Kwv5NSKBsnacXewQszMhrx7fgTQLe
      - rationalist 6mo ago
        Your username does not match with the person the offer was made to. Please do not beg for money here.
  - Dig1t 6mo ago
    Thank you for that offer, that's very kind of you. My new address is 49jUau1t16ZPtBNFaJ2o5eW79x6Fui14AbqwQyovBe2V6LdwgWrHkniWTV9dj7tAY8SRxsshkmQEwLCBYUvPFEkZBJGZt6n Where do you recommend trading dollars -> Monero?

thatmf 6mo ago

[flagged]

Cider9986 6mo ago
Monero is the only real CRYPTO currency. Please look into the benefits. Consider the upsides. I have considered the downsides. Try to understand the importance of Cash and private money and its role in a free society. I get that you were swept up in that period when crypto got bashed left and right. I agree, there are a lot of problems with crypto and 99% of cryptos are scams, but Monero has a huge use case for internet money. Monero is creating whole new parallel economies[1] and protecting activists and everyday people that value privacy. [1] https://xmrbazaar.com/ https://xmrbazaar.com/, https://monerica.com/ https://monerica.com/
- the_real_cher 6mo ago
  I think it's philosophically closest to Satoshis dream
- _-_-__-_-_- 6mo ago
  Visiting those linked websites, they feel sketchy. It seems they are offering gift cards and different pirated digital goods in exchange for Monero. Red flags all around.
  - Cider9986 6mo ago
    Monero is a community project. There are no official websites, only community contributions and consensus. Sure, some sketchy sites are inevitably going to be listed on Monerica, but it lists which have been verified as working by the site owner, and they show reports of scams. Here[1] you can see a list of projects that accept Monero donations. xmrbazaar allows only legal listings, it is by no means a DNM, but it is a free market. There are multi-sig wallets with mediators to prevent scamming by either party, and there is a reputation system. Yeah, some of the boosted listings are for financial services; I see plenty of sketchy listings on FB marketplace. Examples of normal listings: See these eggs[2], real estate[3], italian meat[4]. [1] https://monerica.com/non-profits https://monerica.com/non-profits [2] https://xmrbazaar.com/listing/yWKK/ https://xmrbazaar.com/listing/yWKK/ [3] https://xmrbazaar.com/listing/kAEU/ https://xmrbazaar.com/listing/kAEU/ [4] https://xmrbazaar.com/listing/cdpN/ https://xmrbazaar.com/listing/cdpN/

andai 6mo ago

https://archive.is/Vhzng https://archive.is/Vhzng

cyberax 6mo ago

[flagged]

Cider9986 6mo ago
Privacy tools will be used in ethical and non-ethical ways. I get that it is annoying that crypto facilitates cybercrime, but that is the cost of privacy for everyone. Everyone gets those rights, because there is no other way. I will say that Monero is vastly used for ethical purposes[1]. I guess encryption shouldn't exist because cybercriminals use it to communicate privately. Privacy is a human right, and payments are essential to modern life. Also, good luck on "crash and burn", Monero has been going steady, being the most freedom protecting crypto, for 12 years, celebrating its 12th birthday two days ago. [1] My emotional reaction to your comment, https://xmrbazaar.com/ https://xmrbazaar.com/, https://monerica.com/ https://monerica.com/
- cyberax 6mo ago
  > Privacy tools will be used in ethical and non-ethical ways. Monero is not a privacy tool. It's a criminal money laundering tool. So far, the *coin ecosystem has given us nothing _but_ negatives. It's kinda unique in that regard. > I guess encryption shouldn't exist because cybercriminals use it to communicate privately. Privacy is a human right, and payments are essential to modern life. Privacy is, money laundering isn't.
  - oompydoompy74 6mo ago
    A tool should not be regulated based on what it can do. Regulating tools rather than the action or intention of a person or group is inherently backwards and wrong imo.
    - cyberax 6mo ago
      > A tool should not be regulated based on what it can do. They should be regulated on their primary purpose in practice and the damage that they cause. And Monero is unwilling or unable to police itself, even as it does damage that dwarfs pretty much any other computing technology. And not just nebulous "missed sale" damage, but very real damage that often results in dead people and ruined lives. > Regulating tools rather than the action or intention of a person or group is inherently backwards and wrong imo. We absolutely regulate tools that can inflict a disproportionate amount of damage. For example, I can't just buy high explosives even if I just want to do a cool video of me launching a manhole cover into the air. Or nuclear materials. Or surface-to-air missiles. Or....

selectively 6mo ago

[flagged]

the_real_cher 6mo ago
Like they banned music and movie pirating?
eYrKEC2 6mo ago
Right, because if we can trust centralized control, we can't trust anything. Bring on the social credit!

consumer451 6mo ago

Would someone please explain to me the pros and cons of this existing?

cowpig 6mo ago
pro: if the world devolves into an authoritarean hellscape, people will still have a form of undetectable currency until they find a way to get rid of this con: this improves the chances if the world to devolving into an authoritarean hellscape
- rationalist 6mo ago
  Moreso than controllable, trackable money helps the world devolve "into an authoritarean hellscape"?
Cider9986 6mo ago
Do you already know how a regular Cryptocurrency works and want to know about Monero specifically? Or do you not know anything about Crypto?
- consumer451 6mo ago
  I am very aware of cryptocurrency, some of the intricacies, and possibly most of the use cases. I asked an honest question about the pros and cons. Every technology has pros and cons, right?
  - ofrzeta 6mo ago
    Monero is the most anonymous of the mainstream cryptocurrencies. That's also the reason why it is increasingly outlawed (at least in the EU).
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
    - 6mo ago

OutOfHere 6mo ago

Monero needs to step up for quantum safety, not by replacing the existing encryption, but by adding a quantum safety encryption layer on top. Google's recent paper on quantum risks to cryptocurrencies had identified Monero as being at risk. This is not tomorrow's problem; it requires initiating action today, so these efforts can bear fruit by the time the quantum hardware is ready, perhaps by 2029.

littlecranky67 6mo ago
All coins are aware of quantum safety requirements, yet quantum computers are still far enough in the future that it makes sense to wait, and first see what those post-quantum mitigations should look like.
- OutOfHere 6mo ago
  Burying the head in the sand doesn't work. Quantum-safe algorithm candidates exist. Post-quantum cryptography is a bonafide field with families of algorithms that exist, e.g. lattice/hash/code/multivariate based. If a user has to choose between two cryptocurrencies, one of which is quantum safe and the other isn't, the user will choose the one that is. The ultimate choice of algorithm doesn't have to be finalized right now; that will remain a work in progress for decades, but getting there is not a one-hop journey. For comparison, XRP already has a roadmap: https://cryptonews.com/news/ripple-post-quantum-readiness-xrp-ledger/ https://cryptonews.com/news/ripple-post-quantum-readiness-xr...
  - littlecranky67 6mo ago
    Because XRP is not decentralized, it will be easy to upgrade. With bitcoin, you have to convinve the node runners to upgrade - which means the taken patchset must be sound and verified in depth beforehand.
    - OutOfHere 6mo ago
      We are on a Monero thread. It has scheduled forks.

resonious 6mo ago

I'll echo the sentiment that Monero seems like the "best" cryptocurrency in that it has all of the benefits of Bitcoin + actual privacy. And interestingly, it's one of the least-used least-hyped options. It's as though we didn't actually want privacy in our money system. I think a hint into this is actually in one of these posted features: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/651 https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/me... One of the reasons for building a proper payments system is "Casino games"...

littlecranky67 6mo ago
Privacy is available in bitcoin as a layer-2 solution such as Lightning. When Trump made the popular and media-broadcast bitcoin transaction during his campaign, he did so over lightning. Privacy alone is thus not a big reason to abandon bitcoin and move over to another chain.
puskavi 6mo ago
Its been made very difficult to actually buy it
- ddtaylor 6mo ago
  You can go to an ATM and purchase a coin and use a DEX to convert almost instantly.
  - catapart 6mo ago
    wouldn't that defeat the privacy purpose? wouldn't someone be able to see that it was your card in the ATM, when they traced back the monero as exchanged for a coin that was exchanged for your fiat? ETA: just to be clear - that's a genuine question. I don't know much about monero, so if it really is possible to have untraceable money, that seems like a prudent investment for precaution. I've just always assumed that digital money is inherently traceable, so I always assumed genuine privacy is a mirage. I assume I'm wrong about that, somehow, so I'm curious about the mechanisms of that anonymity.

grigio 6mo ago

Monero is what Bitcoin wanted to be

littlecranky67 6mo ago
Monero has fixed inflation baked in, so no.
- rationalist 6mo ago
  > fixed inflation It looks like you're referring to the tail emission which solves the problem that Bitcoin has. Also, it is a small fixed amount of "coins", so the actual inflation rate approaches zero. I think your comment is what they call "F.U.D."
  - littlecranky67 6mo ago
    > so the actual inflation rate approaches zero. Now THAT is FUD. Current annual inflation rate is 0.84191433% [0]. That is massive and not "approaches zero". The value of Monero over n-years thus approaches zero over time, for big enough n. While that is a little under 1%, it is still inflation. The ECB targets on average 2% inflation (while before COVID the ECB targeted maximum of 2% - so actually close to the Monero inflation). [0]: https://p2pool.io/tail.html https://p2pool.io/tail.html
    - rationalist 6mo ago
      Thank you? It looks like we have different definitions of "massive". You also say it does not approach zero, but in the following sentence you do say it approaches zero. I guess people need to decide if inflationary money is better or worse than deflationary money, and what amount of inflation is appropriate. Personally, without too much thought: I think a monetary inflation rate should correlate with the population inflation rate, so that it's value remains somewhat constant (I'm open to changing this opinion with more information).
  - sph 6mo ago

hoppp 6mo ago

They only fund friends and are quite sketchy so the CCS is not the best thing ever

Cider9986 6mo ago
Even if that was true. Are you saying that EVERYONE that gets funded was there from the start of Monero, 12 years ago, and is part of this secret club? Since that is obviously not true, if "they only fund friends", then I guess people must be able to make new friends.
- hoppp 6mo ago
  Yeah, they make new friends too but yes its a secret and exclusive club. Just look into cypherstack and the "paid" ccs employees. All the people who get huge grants are insiders.