5 ms·

I tend to disagree to a point: their laptops have great internals but are terrible from a usage perspective — I like to imagine their system board in a Thinkpad

by necovek 6mo ago

I tend to disagree to a point: their laptops have great internals but are terrible from a usage perspective — I like to imagine their system board in a Thinkpad X1 Carbon chassis with native Linux! But HW is at least improving (eg. they added anti-reflective screen option), and SW is very much not.

iluvcommunism 6mo ago
How do you feel about their trackpad? I think they’re the best on the market.
- seba_dos1 6mo ago
  They're pretty good, but you can find other good trackpads too. The main thing about Apple is that their trackpads are consistently pretty good, while with other brands it can be hard to figure out what you'll be getting until you try it yourself. There's also software component. It has improved by now, but early libinput was giving some good trackpads bad rep.
- dang 6mo ago
  I wish the trackpad on my macbook were smaller, because my thumbs constantly hit it and smite me into a different reality.
  - saagarjha 6mo ago
    While typing?
    - dang 6mo ago
      Yes.
      - saagarjha 6mo ago
        Interesting, I feel like Apple's palm (I guess thumb?) rejection has been working pretty good for me. In fact I am pretty sure as you type the cursor is completely disabled?
ValentineC 6mo ago
> their laptops have great internals but are terrible from a usage perspective — I like to imagine their system board in a Thinkpad X1 Carbon chassis with native Linux! I don't know about Thinkpads, but the utterly pleasant glass trackpad is still one of the things I cannot find on most non-Mac laptops, despite every manufacturer being able to copy it for years. The closest I've found are the Surface laptop/cover trackpads, but they have their own set of reliability and repairability issues. As a MacBook user, I very rarely want to use a mouse except for gaming. THe trackpad is delightful enough for the bulk of my use cases.
- pxc 6mo ago
  > I don't know about Thinkpads, but the utterly pleasant glass trackpad is still one of the things I cannot find on most non-Mac laptops, despite every manufacturer being able to copy it for years. I was never a trackpad person until I finally got a Mac at work maybe 10 years ago. But since the trackpads stopped really clicking in favor of haptics, they're a lot worse than they used to be. I get false/double clicks and inconsistent feedback. ThinkPads have nicer keyboards, but they stopped doing the more traditional IBM layout several years ago, which is really unfortunate. I'd be willing to pay for a more traditional keyboard layout with a slightly smaller trackpad and/or a sizeable bottom bezel (which is actually preferable for me because of my posture when I use a laptop most of the time).
  - bombcar 6mo ago
    Interestingly enough the Neo went back to a clicking trackpad; you might want to try one and see how it feels for you.
  - gxs 6mo ago
    Always makes me wonder how people use their machine when I read comments like this I’ve worked in big tech and fast growing startups, side by side at one point or another next to hundreds of nerds that love talking about hardware and software The touchpad is almost universally loved - I have never ever once her anyone complain about the click - most people didn’t even notice the switch It has 3D Touch and all that and I’ve never gotten a false click - ever - not exaggerating, in however long they’ve been out The only complaint I’ve ever heard more than once is that sometimes it takes a second to respond So I ask you: how do you use your laptop? If no one else complains about this, it’s at least worth asking the question: what do you think you’re doing differently than everybody else?
the_lucifer 6mo ago
> I tend to disagree to a point: their laptops have great internals but are terrible from a usage perspective — I like to imagine their system board in a Thinkpad X1 Carbon chassis with native Linux! > But HW is at least improving (eg. they added anti-reflective screen option), and SW is very much not. And I would disagree with the idea that I should be running Linux on my primary machine. As a developer, I've faced enough "death by a thousand cuts" situations from running Linux on my personal router and servers to let it anywhere close to my main computer. Don't even get me started on the hardware quality of Mac laptop including their stellar trackpads, screens and the smallest details like the quality of the hinge. I can still open my 5 year old Mac with a single finger and the hinge is as solid as the day I bought it. As someone who's also particular about user experience, Linux always fails at this. If you have good UX, that means you can critically think for what a user wants from a computer, and can determine what should and shouldn’t be prioritized. UX is never a first-class citizen on Linux, and for all the issues with Tahoe, macOS still has enough residual quality left in it to not feel like I'm constantly fighting the operating system. Simple example: I want HDR on Linux. Should be easy right? Just switch to Plasma under Wayland? Then do a one time config so mpv can play HDR. Oh and no browsers support it so good luck. Games need gamescope and flags to be set. I want my computer to work, not for me to work as an integration engineer. So I use my Mac and it just works™. So I just let Linux live where I feel it works best, in servers and headless environments.
- dlahoda 6mo ago
  did you tried nix home-manager for linux software setup? i never was able to use linux until nix. hardware - afaik only lenovo(some say asus is worth to try - but no official linux support, framework is sturdy but feels cheap) is well know for quality hardware - others are questionable. unfortunately AMD AI Max 390/2/5+ nor Qualcomm Elite 2 Lenovos are not here.
  - happygoose 6mo ago
    if you use nixos you end up feeling like you need to spend more time developing your personal computer's configuration than developing your actual projects, ime. it kind of 'just works' if someone already wrote the nix code to do what you want it to do and put it in nixpkgs and you manage to find it and figure out how to use it. but if that isn't the case, good luck. i once spent almost a week trying to get a program to build and run properly under nix that could probably be installed in around 20 seconds on a osx/windows machine.
ericzawo 6mo ago
They are leaps and bounds above any other laptop on the market. Who wants a plastic chasis and nub in 2026 over a modern Macbook Air.
- makeitdouble 6mo ago
  They are leaps and bounds ahead for people who want their specific formula or don't really care about computers. Apple has always been a "our way or the highway" brand, we can at least keep in mind that 3 laptop formulas only differenciated by size and thickness won't cut it for everyone on the planet.
  - carlosjobim 6mo ago
    A sports motorcycle from 2026 is made for people who don't really care about motorcycles. The engine is super tight, performant, doesn't leak oil, doesn't give you any problems, doesn't need tuning or maintenance outside of regular check-ups. You get on it and go. And it's much safer because of automatic safety systems. Sports motorcycles used to be for people who care about motorcycles. Breakdowns, unsafe, finicky, tuning the carburetor if you went between mountains and sea level. You didn't just get on it and go. You had to know about motorcycles if you were an owner. And each individual model had their individual quirks. Which option is better?
    - makeitdouble 6mo ago
      > You get on it and go. While I see your point, that's not the reality of mac laptops to my eyes. The stupidest example: I just want to play Steam games. Will they work on my mac? who knows, probably not. Other basic stuff: can I 2FA without owning any other Apple device ? What happens if I owned an iPhone but switched to android ? etc. "it just works" stopped being true for a pretty long time now IMHO.
      - carlosjobim 6mo ago
        A sports bike doesn't work for every task nor is it ideal for every task neither. A diesel truck has more horse power and is more customizable, if that's what you need.

by necovek 6mo ago

iluvcommunism 6mo ago

How do you feel about their trackpad? I think they’re the best on the market.

seba_dos1 6mo ago
They're pretty good, but you can find other good trackpads too. The main thing about Apple is that their trackpads are consistently pretty good, while with other brands it can be hard to figure out what you'll be getting until you try it yourself. There's also software component. It has improved by now, but early libinput was giving some good trackpads bad rep.
dang 6mo ago
I wish the trackpad on my macbook were smaller, because my thumbs constantly hit it and smite me into a different reality.
- saagarjha 6mo ago
  While typing?
  - dang 6mo ago
    Yes.
    - saagarjha 6mo ago
      Interesting, I feel like Apple's palm (I guess thumb?) rejection has been working pretty good for me. In fact I am pretty sure as you type the cursor is completely disabled?

ValentineC 6mo ago

> their laptops have great internals but are terrible from a usage perspective — I like to imagine their system board in a Thinkpad X1 Carbon chassis with native Linux! I don't know about Thinkpads, but the utterly pleasant glass trackpad is still one of the things I cannot find on most non-Mac laptops, despite every manufacturer being able to copy it for years. The closest I've found are the Surface laptop/cover trackpads, but they have their own set of reliability and repairability issues. As a MacBook user, I very rarely want to use a mouse except for gaming. THe trackpad is delightful enough for the bulk of my use cases.

pxc 6mo ago
> I don't know about Thinkpads, but the utterly pleasant glass trackpad is still one of the things I cannot find on most non-Mac laptops, despite every manufacturer being able to copy it for years. I was never a trackpad person until I finally got a Mac at work maybe 10 years ago. But since the trackpads stopped really clicking in favor of haptics, they're a lot worse than they used to be. I get false/double clicks and inconsistent feedback. ThinkPads have nicer keyboards, but they stopped doing the more traditional IBM layout several years ago, which is really unfortunate. I'd be willing to pay for a more traditional keyboard layout with a slightly smaller trackpad and/or a sizeable bottom bezel (which is actually preferable for me because of my posture when I use a laptop most of the time).
- bombcar 6mo ago
  Interestingly enough the Neo went back to a clicking trackpad; you might want to try one and see how it feels for you.
- gxs 6mo ago
  Always makes me wonder how people use their machine when I read comments like this I’ve worked in big tech and fast growing startups, side by side at one point or another next to hundreds of nerds that love talking about hardware and software The touchpad is almost universally loved - I have never ever once her anyone complain about the click - most people didn’t even notice the switch It has 3D Touch and all that and I’ve never gotten a false click - ever - not exaggerating, in however long they’ve been out The only complaint I’ve ever heard more than once is that sometimes it takes a second to respond So I ask you: how do you use your laptop? If no one else complains about this, it’s at least worth asking the question: what do you think you’re doing differently than everybody else?

the_lucifer 6mo ago

> I tend to disagree to a point: their laptops have great internals but are terrible from a usage perspective — I like to imagine their system board in a Thinkpad X1 Carbon chassis with native Linux! > But HW is at least improving (eg. they added anti-reflective screen option), and SW is very much not. And I would disagree with the idea that I should be running Linux on my primary machine. As a developer, I've faced enough "death by a thousand cuts" situations from running Linux on my personal router and servers to let it anywhere close to my main computer. Don't even get me started on the hardware quality of Mac laptop including their stellar trackpads, screens and the smallest details like the quality of the hinge. I can still open my 5 year old Mac with a single finger and the hinge is as solid as the day I bought it. As someone who's also particular about user experience, Linux always fails at this. If you have good UX, that means you can critically think for what a user wants from a computer, and can determine what should and shouldn’t be prioritized. UX is never a first-class citizen on Linux, and for all the issues with Tahoe, macOS still has enough residual quality left in it to not feel like I'm constantly fighting the operating system. Simple example: I want HDR on Linux. Should be easy right? Just switch to Plasma under Wayland? Then do a one time config so mpv can play HDR. Oh and no browsers support it so good luck. Games need gamescope and flags to be set. I want my computer to work, not for me to work as an integration engineer. So I use my Mac and it just works™. So I just let Linux live where I feel it works best, in servers and headless environments.

dlahoda 6mo ago
did you tried nix home-manager for linux software setup? i never was able to use linux until nix. hardware - afaik only lenovo(some say asus is worth to try - but no official linux support, framework is sturdy but feels cheap) is well know for quality hardware - others are questionable. unfortunately AMD AI Max 390/2/5+ nor Qualcomm Elite 2 Lenovos are not here.
- happygoose 6mo ago
  if you use nixos you end up feeling like you need to spend more time developing your personal computer's configuration than developing your actual projects, ime. it kind of 'just works' if someone already wrote the nix code to do what you want it to do and put it in nixpkgs and you manage to find it and figure out how to use it. but if that isn't the case, good luck. i once spent almost a week trying to get a program to build and run properly under nix that could probably be installed in around 20 seconds on a osx/windows machine.

ericzawo 6mo ago

They are leaps and bounds above any other laptop on the market. Who wants a plastic chasis and nub in 2026 over a modern Macbook Air.

makeitdouble 6mo ago
They are leaps and bounds ahead for people who want their specific formula or don't really care about computers. Apple has always been a "our way or the highway" brand, we can at least keep in mind that 3 laptop formulas only differenciated by size and thickness won't cut it for everyone on the planet.
- carlosjobim 6mo ago
  A sports motorcycle from 2026 is made for people who don't really care about motorcycles. The engine is super tight, performant, doesn't leak oil, doesn't give you any problems, doesn't need tuning or maintenance outside of regular check-ups. You get on it and go. And it's much safer because of automatic safety systems. Sports motorcycles used to be for people who care about motorcycles. Breakdowns, unsafe, finicky, tuning the carburetor if you went between mountains and sea level. You didn't just get on it and go. You had to know about motorcycles if you were an owner. And each individual model had their individual quirks. Which option is better?
  - makeitdouble 6mo ago
    > You get on it and go. While I see your point, that's not the reality of mac laptops to my eyes. The stupidest example: I just want to play Steam games. Will they work on my mac? who knows, probably not. Other basic stuff: can I 2FA without owning any other Apple device ? What happens if I owned an iPhone but switched to android ? etc. "it just works" stopped being true for a pretty long time now IMHO.
    - carlosjobim 6mo ago
      A sports bike doesn't work for every task nor is it ideal for every task neither. A diesel truck has more horse power and is more customizable, if that's what you need.