4 ms·

These are just flashes in a pan. The material math for EVs is not viable.

jqpabc123 6mo ago
I'll bet your math conveniently ignores the fact that the supply of petroleum is inherently limited and subject to disruption for political and other "non-material" reasons..
- measurablefunc 6mo ago
  It's not a political statement, just basic physics & chemistry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEkIh2PcSYE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEkIh2PcSYE
  - diablozzq 6mo ago
    Your own YouTube link refutes your conclusion. in the first few sentences he states “The problem is not with EVs it’s with mandates” EVs are fine, yes they are still limited in some cases.
    - measurablefunc 6mo ago
      The mandates won't fix the fundamental physical & material problems so I'll repeat what I said. EVs are never going to work at the scale of ICEs, the numbers don't work out. Regardless of any political "incentives", there is only a finite amount of copper & only finitely many cars that can be made w/ that amount of copper which has to be extracted & processed using non-renewable resources.
      - barbazoo 6mo ago
        > Regardless of any political "incentives", there is only a finite amount of copper & only finitely many cars that can be made w/ that amount of copper which has to be extracted & processed using non-renewable resources. > the numbers don't work out What are the numbers? Are we running out of any of those? Are we not recycling enough materials?
      - vel0city 6mo ago
        > there is only a finite amount of copper There is only a finite amount of oil as well. There is only a finite amount of aluminum and iron. There is only a finite amount of everything on this planet my dude. > has to be extracted & processed using non-renewable resources Technically speaking these don't always have to be entirely non-renewable processes. But let's also think: when the copper windings on some EV's motor are toast it can be recycled pretty much infinitely. How many times does that gallon of gasoline get recycled? Seems strange to have the copper be the thing so uniquely focused on. You're so focused on like 200lbs of copper that will be in the car the entire life of the car and can then be recycled after the life of the car, being so extremely concerned about how its such a finite resource. Meanwhile you just ignore than a 25mpg ICE car over a 200,000mi life will burn ~48,600lbs of gasoline, none of which is recoverable, and is also a finite resource. Which one should we me more concerned about using up? The one that's easily recyclable or the one that's not and will be consumed >240x as much? https://internationalcopper.org/sustainable-copper/about-copper/cu-demand-long-term-availability/ https://internationalcopper.org/sustainable-copper/about-cop... > Current copper resources are estimated to exceed 5,000 million tonnes That's ~50 billion EV cars worth of copper we roughly know about. There's probably more than that out there, we just haven't found it yet. It also just ignores all the copper we've already mined and is in the circular economy.
      - wao0uuno 6mo ago
        Copper is a widely recycled metal. Is there not enough copper on earth to replace all ICE cars with EVs? Can you post some sources? And those numbers you keep talking about so I can verify if your calculator is working alright.
        measurablefunc 6mo ago
        I already posted the link. You are welcome to verify the details for yourself by following up on what you take to be articles of faith. The burden of proof is on you to explain why the numbers actually work.
        vel0city 6mo ago
        Your link is an oil industry shill saying asinine things like EVs are too expensive because they have welds in their manufacturing processes. Mark Mills is the founder of The National Center for Energy Analytics. Where do they get their funding? Groups like the Texas Public Policy Foundation. Where do they get their funding? That's right, billionaire oilmen. https://www.texasobserver.org/revealed-the-corporations-and-billionaires-that-fund-the-texas-public-policy-foundation/ https://www.texasobserver.org/revealed-the-corporations-and-... Dude is paid to throw out falsehoods and sow doubt and confusion on behalf of oil industry billionaires. > The burden of proof is on you to explain why the numbers actually work The burden of proof is on you to share actual data of your claims there's not enough copper for EVs not ramblings of paid liars on a YouTube video. > following up on what you take to be articles of faith Hilarious you're suggesting him asking for actual data is him relying on blind articles of faith while your video is just a man rambling without any actual hard facts in a video, saying lots of things that just on their face make little sense.
        measurablefunc 6mo ago
        You've convinced me, the data you have presented definitely makes it clear & obvious that Mark Mills is wrong & you are right.
        6mo ago
zug_zug 6mo ago
I don't think "material math" applies to things that are huge luxury/status symbol purchases. Otherwise we'd all be driving 2005 corollas. And as status-symbol or identity statement, being anti-oil (or anti beholden on America, Russia, Iran, etc) seems like a pretty good one.
- measurablefunc 6mo ago
  I am not making any political statements, it's all basic physics & material science: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEkIh2PcSYE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEkIh2PcSYE
  - zug_zug 6mo ago
    I've watched plenty of youtube videos, I'm not gonna watch a 10 minute video from somebody I've never heard of and treat is as a good source. It's bad form to post that here multiple times instead of just citing whatever actual published sources. Especially when EV vehicles are already working and taking over the market.
    - ZeroGravitas 6mo ago
      The man in the video has a history of questionable claims, for some fairly obvious reasons: https://www.desmog.com/mark-p-mills/ https://www.desmog.com/mark-p-mills/ > Senior Fellow at the Manhattan Institute, and a Strategic Partner at Cottonwood Venture Partners, an investment firm focused on technological advancements in oil and gas production
      - wao0uuno 6mo ago
        Edit: Just checked the guidelines so: Man, what a terrible person. I hope he steps on a lego block.
  - onraglanroad 6mo ago
    There was no physics in that. It was 10 minutes of incoherent rambling. How do people find this convincing? Is it a new fashion?
peterlada 6mo ago
Geez, Hillsdale College. Worldwide authority on all economics from the theological perspective. Congrats on picking information sources.
- measurablefunc 6mo ago
  Do the math & then post your own video to explain why he's mistaken.
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]

I'll bet your math conveniently ignores the fact that the supply of petroleum is inherently limited and subject to disruption for political and other "non-material" reasons..

measurablefunc 6mo ago
It's not a political statement, just basic physics & chemistry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEkIh2PcSYE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEkIh2PcSYE
- diablozzq 6mo ago
  Your own YouTube link refutes your conclusion. in the first few sentences he states “The problem is not with EVs it’s with mandates” EVs are fine, yes they are still limited in some cases.
  - measurablefunc 6mo ago
    The mandates won't fix the fundamental physical & material problems so I'll repeat what I said. EVs are never going to work at the scale of ICEs, the numbers don't work out. Regardless of any political "incentives", there is only a finite amount of copper & only finitely many cars that can be made w/ that amount of copper which has to be extracted & processed using non-renewable resources.
    - barbazoo 6mo ago
      > Regardless of any political "incentives", there is only a finite amount of copper & only finitely many cars that can be made w/ that amount of copper which has to be extracted & processed using non-renewable resources. > the numbers don't work out What are the numbers? Are we running out of any of those? Are we not recycling enough materials?
    - vel0city 6mo ago
      > there is only a finite amount of copper There is only a finite amount of oil as well. There is only a finite amount of aluminum and iron. There is only a finite amount of everything on this planet my dude. > has to be extracted & processed using non-renewable resources Technically speaking these don't always have to be entirely non-renewable processes. But let's also think: when the copper windings on some EV's motor are toast it can be recycled pretty much infinitely. How many times does that gallon of gasoline get recycled? Seems strange to have the copper be the thing so uniquely focused on. You're so focused on like 200lbs of copper that will be in the car the entire life of the car and can then be recycled after the life of the car, being so extremely concerned about how its such a finite resource. Meanwhile you just ignore than a 25mpg ICE car over a 200,000mi life will burn ~48,600lbs of gasoline, none of which is recoverable, and is also a finite resource. Which one should we me more concerned about using up? The one that's easily recyclable or the one that's not and will be consumed >240x as much? https://internationalcopper.org/sustainable-copper/about-copper/cu-demand-long-term-availability/ https://internationalcopper.org/sustainable-copper/about-cop... > Current copper resources are estimated to exceed 5,000 million tonnes That's ~50 billion EV cars worth of copper we roughly know about. There's probably more than that out there, we just haven't found it yet. It also just ignores all the copper we've already mined and is in the circular economy.
    - wao0uuno 6mo ago
      Copper is a widely recycled metal. Is there not enough copper on earth to replace all ICE cars with EVs? Can you post some sources? And those numbers you keep talking about so I can verify if your calculator is working alright.
      - measurablefunc 6mo ago
        I already posted the link. You are welcome to verify the details for yourself by following up on what you take to be articles of faith. The burden of proof is on you to explain why the numbers actually work.
        vel0city 6mo ago
        Your link is an oil industry shill saying asinine things like EVs are too expensive because they have welds in their manufacturing processes. Mark Mills is the founder of The National Center for Energy Analytics. Where do they get their funding? Groups like the Texas Public Policy Foundation. Where do they get their funding? That's right, billionaire oilmen. https://www.texasobserver.org/revealed-the-corporations-and-billionaires-that-fund-the-texas-public-policy-foundation/ https://www.texasobserver.org/revealed-the-corporations-and-... Dude is paid to throw out falsehoods and sow doubt and confusion on behalf of oil industry billionaires. > The burden of proof is on you to explain why the numbers actually work The burden of proof is on you to share actual data of your claims there's not enough copper for EVs not ramblings of paid liars on a YouTube video. > following up on what you take to be articles of faith Hilarious you're suggesting him asking for actual data is him relying on blind articles of faith while your video is just a man rambling without any actual hard facts in a video, saying lots of things that just on their face make little sense.
        measurablefunc 6mo ago
        You've convinced me, the data you have presented definitely makes it clear & obvious that Mark Mills is wrong & you are right.
        6mo ago

zug_zug 6mo ago

I don't think "material math" applies to things that are huge luxury/status symbol purchases. Otherwise we'd all be driving 2005 corollas. And as status-symbol or identity statement, being anti-oil (or anti beholden on America, Russia, Iran, etc) seems like a pretty good one.

measurablefunc 6mo ago
I am not making any political statements, it's all basic physics & material science: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEkIh2PcSYE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEkIh2PcSYE
- zug_zug 6mo ago
  I've watched plenty of youtube videos, I'm not gonna watch a 10 minute video from somebody I've never heard of and treat is as a good source. It's bad form to post that here multiple times instead of just citing whatever actual published sources. Especially when EV vehicles are already working and taking over the market.
  - ZeroGravitas 6mo ago
    The man in the video has a history of questionable claims, for some fairly obvious reasons: https://www.desmog.com/mark-p-mills/ https://www.desmog.com/mark-p-mills/ > Senior Fellow at the Manhattan Institute, and a Strategic Partner at Cottonwood Venture Partners, an investment firm focused on technological advancements in oil and gas production
    - wao0uuno 6mo ago
      Edit: Just checked the guidelines so: Man, what a terrible person. I hope he steps on a lego block.
- onraglanroad 6mo ago
  There was no physics in that. It was 10 minutes of incoherent rambling. How do people find this convincing? Is it a new fashion?

peterlada 6mo ago

Geez, Hillsdale College. Worldwide authority on all economics from the theological perspective. Congrats on picking information sources.

measurablefunc 6mo ago
Do the math & then post your own video to explain why he's mistaken.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]