5 ms·

Front-end, UX, design, and product have become one role. The market is just realizing it slowly.

by operatingthetan 6mo ago

esafak 6mo ago
So your designers debug your React code now when the AI messes up?
- operatingthetan 6mo ago
  Leading question, feel free to ask a more honest one.
  - ioasuncvinvaer 6mo ago
    How is it a leading question?
    - operatingthetan 6mo ago
      >A leading question is a query that suggests the desired answer or puts words into a witness's mouth, often guiding them toward a "yes" or "no" response.
      - viccis 6mo ago
        It was just restating what you already said; no need for this specious response.
        operatingthetan 6mo ago
        Please quote me where I said 'my designers debug react code that AI messes up.' I did not say anything of the sort. See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47819428 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47819428
        viccis 6mo ago
        "Debug react code" => "Front-end" "Designers" => "Design" >Front-end, UX, design, and product have become one role. Ok so, are your "designers" (now part of one role) not debugging react code? If they are then you mislabeled the question as leading to avoid discussing in good faith. If not, then you lied about the "one role" and it turns out that they haven't BECOME "one role". This motte-and-bailey strategy is unproductive and disrespectful to the people you are addressing.
        deleted 6mo ago
        [deleted]
    - hombre_fatal 6mo ago
      They entailed scenario that isn't entailed by the person's claim. i.e. The OP doesn't need to answer yes to their question for OP's claim to be true, yet their question pretends otherwise. (non sequitur)
  - esafak 6mo ago
    All right, here's a statement: your designers won't even know when the code is wrong. Just because it compiles it doesn't mean it's fine. They lack code judgment in the same way your coders lack design judgment.
    - operatingthetan 6mo ago
      Thank you. In response I suggest that the engineers using AI also lack code judgement (because they are not reading it either). I don't think questioning the AI use is the actual topic here, it is the shifting roles. Who says it's the designers that are taking the new meta-role? It's probably the FE's honestly. The role shifting doesn't mean that it's the best path forward. I'm simply stating that it is happening.
    - nslsm 6mo ago
      It's very easy to know when code is wrong: it doesn't work the way it's expected to. So you explain to the AI what's wrong and the AI fixes it.
      - esafak 6mo ago
        Your designers are going to be looking at the layout; they're not going to notice if it's slow, uses too much memory, is not maintainable, doesn't follow repo patterns, etc. Do you think it is reasonable to expect a person with an arts degree to know this?
        jmye 6mo ago
        > Do you think it is reasonable to expect a person with an arts degree Of course it is. The only people who think your fucking college degree determines your knowledge level and ability are teenagers and people who are so deeply untalented that it’s the only way they feel qualified.
        mauzybwy 6mo ago
        > Do you think it is reasonable to expect a person with an arts degree to know this? There are plenty of people with arts degrees who know this, and PLENTY of dogshit engineers with CS degrees who don’t
- micromacrofoot 6mo ago
  I've been a developer for over 2 decades and I've been using AI in our react codebase for the past 3 months. Outside of some optimizations there's not much a designer couldn't debug through Claude Code. 90% of the industry is toast. I want to be wrong because I'm watching the death of my entire career, but everything I've seen is pointing to this as an inevitability. We are shipping better and more secure code, and doing it easily twice as fast. Many development teams can be cut in half today with no reduction in output. I don't want to say it out loud at work yet, but we're actually producing too much.
  - operatingthetan 6mo ago
    I think the real question is which of the four roles is going to be the one that takes over. Probably people who were already UX-Engineers.
    - only-one1701 6mo ago
      I would ask this: which is the worse failure mode —- design not quite right, or users can’t access the app?
      - girvo 6mo ago
        On the other hand, teaching taste is quite hard, and is what people respond to and what designers learn. Teaching programming is a bit of mostly solved problem, today anyway.
        operatingthetan 6mo ago
        Realistically this doesn't mean all pure designers go away. Large orgs can have a small team that set the overall style guide and designs important pages, and the rest of the org just follows using AI to iterate.
      - esafak 6mo ago
        That's the kind of question you will have to ask if you don't hire right. I get collapsing frontend/backend and PM/UI/UX but two then collapse code and product may be a bridge too far.
- only-one1701 6mo ago
  That’s what CEOs think lol. Let’s see if it pans out!
  - lodovic 6mo ago
    "I have an error when i click on the orange button, see screenshot. fix it."
- doug_durham 6mo ago
  In my opinion this should have always been the case. All designers should be able to code and do html/css. It's the medium of design.
  - esafak 6mo ago
    HTML and CSS, sure, but modern frontend design is way more than that; it's a jungle out there.
    - operatingthetan 6mo ago
      React, Nextjs, Vue, Nuxt, and Angular are pretty much what AI is the very best at coding in my experience. Probably because they are all meant to build essentially the same thing with different curtains.
      - phist_mcgee 6mo ago
        Ever seen a vibe-coded react app? It's astounding how well SOTA LLMs can produce good looking code in detail, but zoom out to the architectural or broader picture and it becomes an unholy mess. It's like a masterpiece painted by an artist with their nose 5 inches from the canvas at all times.
  - re-thc 6mo ago
    > All designers should be able to code and do html/css. It's the medium of design. So a fashion designer can mass produce clothing? So an interior designer can build a house? This designer should has never held.
    - operatingthetan 6mo ago
      The analogies you have offered aren't great. For example designers and developers both use the computer as their primary medium of working. Their outputs resemble each other very closely, despite having a different underlying form. Contrast that to the interior designer building a house, well those are different mediums. There is no efficiency gain from the interior designer designing the plan and also implementing it. Where as with a designer working in code there is one. Fashion designers do indeed make clothing by hand, it's a very important part of their craft. This example disproves your stance.

Front-end, UX, design, and product have become one role. The market is just realizing it slowly.

esafak 6mo ago

So your designers debug your React code now when the AI messes up?

operatingthetan 6mo ago
Leading question, feel free to ask a more honest one.
- ioasuncvinvaer 6mo ago
  How is it a leading question?
  - operatingthetan 6mo ago
    >A leading question is a query that suggests the desired answer or puts words into a witness's mouth, often guiding them toward a "yes" or "no" response.
    - viccis 6mo ago
      It was just restating what you already said; no need for this specious response.
      - operatingthetan 6mo ago
        Please quote me where I said 'my designers debug react code that AI messes up.' I did not say anything of the sort. See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47819428 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47819428
        viccis 6mo ago
        "Debug react code" => "Front-end" "Designers" => "Design" >Front-end, UX, design, and product have become one role. Ok so, are your "designers" (now part of one role) not debugging react code? If they are then you mislabeled the question as leading to avoid discussing in good faith. If not, then you lied about the "one role" and it turns out that they haven't BECOME "one role". This motte-and-bailey strategy is unproductive and disrespectful to the people you are addressing.
        deleted 6mo ago
        [deleted]
  - hombre_fatal 6mo ago
    They entailed scenario that isn't entailed by the person's claim. i.e. The OP doesn't need to answer yes to their question for OP's claim to be true, yet their question pretends otherwise. (non sequitur)
- esafak 6mo ago
  All right, here's a statement: your designers won't even know when the code is wrong. Just because it compiles it doesn't mean it's fine. They lack code judgment in the same way your coders lack design judgment.
  - operatingthetan 6mo ago
    Thank you. In response I suggest that the engineers using AI also lack code judgement (because they are not reading it either). I don't think questioning the AI use is the actual topic here, it is the shifting roles. Who says it's the designers that are taking the new meta-role? It's probably the FE's honestly. The role shifting doesn't mean that it's the best path forward. I'm simply stating that it is happening.
  - nslsm 6mo ago
    It's very easy to know when code is wrong: it doesn't work the way it's expected to. So you explain to the AI what's wrong and the AI fixes it.
    - esafak 6mo ago
      Your designers are going to be looking at the layout; they're not going to notice if it's slow, uses too much memory, is not maintainable, doesn't follow repo patterns, etc. Do you think it is reasonable to expect a person with an arts degree to know this?
      - jmye 6mo ago
        > Do you think it is reasonable to expect a person with an arts degree Of course it is. The only people who think your fucking college degree determines your knowledge level and ability are teenagers and people who are so deeply untalented that it’s the only way they feel qualified.
      - mauzybwy 6mo ago
        > Do you think it is reasonable to expect a person with an arts degree to know this? There are plenty of people with arts degrees who know this, and PLENTY of dogshit engineers with CS degrees who don’t
micromacrofoot 6mo ago
I've been a developer for over 2 decades and I've been using AI in our react codebase for the past 3 months. Outside of some optimizations there's not much a designer couldn't debug through Claude Code. 90% of the industry is toast. I want to be wrong because I'm watching the death of my entire career, but everything I've seen is pointing to this as an inevitability. We are shipping better and more secure code, and doing it easily twice as fast. Many development teams can be cut in half today with no reduction in output. I don't want to say it out loud at work yet, but we're actually producing too much.
- operatingthetan 6mo ago
  I think the real question is which of the four roles is going to be the one that takes over. Probably people who were already UX-Engineers.
  - only-one1701 6mo ago
    I would ask this: which is the worse failure mode —- design not quite right, or users can’t access the app?
    - girvo 6mo ago
      On the other hand, teaching taste is quite hard, and is what people respond to and what designers learn. Teaching programming is a bit of mostly solved problem, today anyway.
      - operatingthetan 6mo ago
        Realistically this doesn't mean all pure designers go away. Large orgs can have a small team that set the overall style guide and designs important pages, and the rest of the org just follows using AI to iterate.
    - esafak 6mo ago
      That's the kind of question you will have to ask if you don't hire right. I get collapsing frontend/backend and PM/UI/UX but two then collapse code and product may be a bridge too far.
only-one1701 6mo ago
That’s what CEOs think lol. Let’s see if it pans out!
- lodovic 6mo ago
  "I have an error when i click on the orange button, see screenshot. fix it."
doug_durham 6mo ago
In my opinion this should have always been the case. All designers should be able to code and do html/css. It's the medium of design.
- esafak 6mo ago
  HTML and CSS, sure, but modern frontend design is way more than that; it's a jungle out there.
  - operatingthetan 6mo ago
    React, Nextjs, Vue, Nuxt, and Angular are pretty much what AI is the very best at coding in my experience. Probably because they are all meant to build essentially the same thing with different curtains.
    - phist_mcgee 6mo ago
      Ever seen a vibe-coded react app? It's astounding how well SOTA LLMs can produce good looking code in detail, but zoom out to the architectural or broader picture and it becomes an unholy mess. It's like a masterpiece painted by an artist with their nose 5 inches from the canvas at all times.
- re-thc 6mo ago
  > All designers should be able to code and do html/css. It's the medium of design. So a fashion designer can mass produce clothing? So an interior designer can build a house? This designer should has never held.
  - operatingthetan 6mo ago
    The analogies you have offered aren't great. For example designers and developers both use the computer as their primary medium of working. Their outputs resemble each other very closely, despite having a different underlying form. Contrast that to the interior designer building a house, well those are different mediums. There is no efficiency gain from the interior designer designing the plan and also implementing it. Where as with a designer working in code there is one. Fashion designers do indeed make clothing by hand, it's a very important part of their craft. This example disproves your stance.