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> my kids play outside unsupervised all the time, as do all the kids in my neighborhood. I live in just a regular suburban neighborhood Your kids are hardly fr

> my kids play outside unsupervised all the time, as do all the kids in my neighborhood. I live in just a regular suburban neighborhood Your kids are hardly free-range. Let me guess, there's no way for them to actually meaningfully leave the area (no train, bus, etc)? It's like dumping kids on a 5 acre farm and saying they can do whatever they want. hardly free-range in the way described in the article. Presumably you live in a suburb for the reasons the person in the article checked in on the free-range kid. my personal litmus test is if you'd let your 13 year kid explore Manhattan alone during the day. Many say no because it's dangerous, and yet Manhattan is safer than most American suburbs. just FUD all the way down sadly.

ghaff 6mo ago
The usual contrast being drawn is kids wandering around a suburban area, walking to school, playing with kids in a nearby rural property. It's not hopping onto a bus to the city a few tens of miles away. You do see schoolchildren in Japan on the train by themselves but I'm not sure that's ever been very common in the US.
- amazingamazing 6mo ago
  there's really no reason American kids in metro areas like SF, Boston, DC, NYC couldn't take a bus 5 miles away by themselves. when one comes up of an actual reason to why, it contradicts real statistics. the biggest things parents should worry about is their kid being bullied by other kids during school, a supposedly safe place, and other family. strangers just aren't the major source of violence towards children.
  - ButlerianJihad 6mo ago
    Welp this week we in Phoenix are dealing with a report of a 17-year-old high school girl who boarded a light rail train (the one with security cameras and guards) and she was harassed and assaulted by a mob of boys on the train, presumably in front of human onlookers; she disembarked, and was assaulted some more. She is now in a neck brace, and her mother is absolutely distraught, saying this is something she cannot fix for her beloved daughter. I am distraught as well that this could happen to anyone at all on the same train that I ride every week.
    - ghaff 6mo ago
      That's a sad story though getting a bit far afield from young kids taking public transit or otherwise traveling away from their homes. At 17 I was in college and taking urban transportation (and flights) all the time.
    - weakfish 6mo ago
      I’m also curious why you write “we in Phoenix are dealing with…” I’ve noticed a trend of people attaching a sort of personal identification with headlines
      - coldtea 6mo ago
        Perhaps they don't identify as a passive news consumer about irrelevant people, but as a resident with a bond to their city and wider community. Imagine that!
        jMyles 6mo ago
        I don't think that was the crux of the inquiry / objection. It's wonderful to feel such a bond with one's _community_, but it's a different thing to bind oneself to such a dramatic statistical outlier and make decisions ("dealing with") as if it's a common occurrence.
        ButlerianJihad 6mo ago
        I mean, I don't know what "decisions" would be made but often people say we are "dealing with" emotions or stress related to something that comes out in the news. The crux of my stress on this is that riding the light rail is a very common thing for me and millions of my neighbors. In fact we are shocked because we consider it so safe. The LRT should be the safest place in the city, given the cameras, the crowds, the security guards and the vigilant operators. To think that a vulnerable, female high school student was attacked, broad daylight, onlookers looking, mob of boys (high school I would assume) is just beyond the pale. Nobody did nothing, and the attack continues after she disembarks? It's just unthinkable. There is a Jesuit Catholic boys' school just up the line from where she boarded. Were none of the Brophy boys on hand to step in, to say "stop it" or do anything about it? And to watch the interview with the mother was just the last straw for me. How upset she is now. Her daughter means the world to her; she couldn't protect her, and she can't "fix this" for her. It's heartwrenching. It should've been safe, especially for a girl like her, so close to adulthood, but legally a child.
- NordStreamYacht 6mo ago
  Japan is a monocultural civilisational state. That is a big factor.
  - garbawarb 6mo ago
    American children are in more danger because the country's more diverse?
    - paulryanrogers 6mo ago
      Diversity doesn't make places more dangerous (if i understand the stats). But humans are naturally tribal and fear those who look and act significantly different.
      - coldtea 6mo ago
        Because humans are tribal they will also go on to attack and prey on those who are outside their tribe, making diversity more dangerous. Especially when diversity is not merely some people of different ethnic/racial backgrounds living and working together, but a population split into isolated cultures with different circumstances. Unless there's a big strict enforcer to keep everyone in line of course.
        macNchz 6mo ago
        This is something a lot of people seem to believe that is not borne out in the research. Plenty of specific counter examples like Queens NY, a densely populated and exceptionally diverse place with crime rates comparable or better than many much more homogenous places in America. Poverty and income inequality are much better predictors. I felt this reddit comment from a while ago did a pretty good job rolling up sources on this: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/1jxff1e/comment/mmpy4yi/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/1jxff...
      - mmooss 6mo ago
        That depends on an arbitrary perception of 'my tribe'. Irish and Italians used to riot against each other. Germans were hated (look up a quote from Benjamin Franklin). Protestants and Catholics used to riot. Every wave of immigrants seems to get the same treatment by some. Within a few generations, their decendants marry each other.
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tayo42 6mo ago
Plenty of trouble for a 13 year old in Manhattan. Even if it's not dangerous, you can find your own problems easily enough.
- kingraoul 6mo ago
  I mean by that standard there’s plenty of trouble everywhere for everyone.
- borski 6mo ago
  You can find your own problems on an abandoned farm too. A kid can always choose to get into trouble, but that’s not what we’re talking about here.
  - tayo42 6mo ago
    The type of trouble is different. Your not going to get robbed trying to buy drugs on a farm.
    - borski 6mo ago
      Humboldt County would like a word.
    - com2kid 6mo ago
      I grew up in a neighborhood that had a drug den next to the 7-11 that all the kids went to buy slurpees at. The dealers didn't bother the kids, and the kids knew not to go into that yard. There were plenty of street walkers on a particular stretch of streets. They weren't talking to anyone who wasn't looking to buy. Of course I had the advantage of being a broke kid at the time, so I wasn't a mark for crime. I was just another neighborhood kid who was walking through. It was a working class neighborhood with a few sketchy parts. There was the occasional shooting or drive by, and property theft was common (every bike I had as a kid was stolen from me at some point), but it wasn't unsafe in regards to violence. I almost impaled myself on a rebar pole while jumping my bike over hills at an abandoned construction site. That was the most dangerous thing that ever happened to me growing up there. (well aside from the time I almost died falling into a sink hole and managed to grab onto a nearby tree root and pull myself up in time, but that was in the middle of nearby woods, so not gonna blame that on societal problems!)
Mordisquitos 6mo ago
> It's like dumping kids on a 5 acre farm and saying they can do whatever they want. What do you mean it's like dumping kids on a farm? Are the suburbs really THAT lethally dangerous? Source [22 minutes]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLAfDrFUBkA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLAfDrFUBkA
yieldcrv 6mo ago
> and yet Manhattan is safer than most American suburbs [something traumatic happens and 50 people run for their safety] see and as proven, only 1 person was assaulted! I think a future society that counts trauma and mental health disruptions instead of just the crime stats will reach different conclusions on areas considered safe
zabzonk 6mo ago
> my personal litmus test is if you'd let your 13 year kid explore Manhattan alone during the day My parents let me (14) and my brother (9) explore central Paris on our own when my Dad was working at the Paris air show for the RAF. No problems at all even though this was just after the student protests in the 60s, and so things were a little tense. I think Manhattan would be OK too, though I've only been there as an adjust. Certainly, you see kids running around London.
- zabzonk 6mo ago
  s/adjust/adult/
- graemep 6mo ago
  London and the bits of Pars I have seen are pleasant places to work around. London does have its bad areas, as do other cities. Small towns in the UK are fine, as is most public transport. Parents have got more protective but I still see plenty out by themselves where I live.
- semiquaver 6mo ago
  13??? I’m shocked that it’s even a question. Of course a 13 year old should be allowed to do that.
- insane_dreamer 6mo ago
  I let my then 13 yr old daughter go around Beijing by bus/subway when we lived there 10 years ago; she had a phone. Felt perfectly safe. Same thing in Tokyo. I'm not sure I would have allowed that had we been living in a big US city like LA, Chicago or NYC -- maybe it's just as safe, IDK, but the fact that anyone in the US can own/carry a weapon makes me feel much less safe than in other developed countries.
ryandrake 6mo ago
Yea, I always through "free range" meant the kid walking (or taking the bus/train) a few miles through the city to get to an actual "other place" destination. Not "playing across the street in the suburban park." If the latter is now considered unusual, we have some big problems!!
- nostrebored 6mo ago
  It is in SF. My son’s school would not let him walk 3 minutes to an aftercare program. They were actually willing to break federal law to stop him from walking a single block away. I also let him play at the park on his own occasionally. I will get calls from well meaning but extremely overprotective friends to let me know that “they can’t watch him anymore.” He is ten! The library, connected to the park, has a phone which he can use to reach us. People called my parents hover parents, but at ten I could have played at the neighborhood park by myself.
- em-bee 6mo ago
  If the latter is now considered unusual, we have some big problems!! it is, and we do: https://www.offthegridnews.com/current-events/mom-charged-with-child-endangerment-for-letting-daughter-play-in-park-across-the-street/ https://www.offthegridnews.com/current-events/mom-charged-wi... https://reason.com/2025/08/09/child-protective-services-investigated-her-4-times-because-she-let-her-kids-play-outside/ https://reason.com/2025/08/09/child-protective-services-inve... https://reason.com/2026/01/16/she-let-her-6-year-old-ride-to-the-park-alone-georgia-called-it-neglect/ https://reason.com/2026/01/16/she-let-her-6-year-old-ride-to... https://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/31/living/florida-mom-arrested-son-park/ https://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/31/living/florida-mom-arrest... https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/parents-investigated-for-letting-freerange-kids-play-in-park-alone/news-story/7a8ab1301f333809875b9b24533c03f7 https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/parents-investig... https://nationalpost.com/news/growing-up-independent-is-illegal-mom-arrested-in-u-s-for-letting-nine-year-old-daughter-play-alone-in-park https://nationalpost.com/news/growing-up-independent-is-ille... https://www.todaysparent.com/blogs/mom-arrested-leaving-daughter-park-alone/ https://www.todaysparent.com/blogs/mom-arrested-leaving-daug... https://legalclarity.org/is-it-illegal-to-let-your-kid-play-outside-alone/ https://legalclarity.org/is-it-illegal-to-let-your-kid-play-... those are all from the first page of a search for "parents charged for letting kids alone on the playground" there are probably many more such stories.
beej71 6mo ago
I grew up in the 70s in a town of 30,000 and consider that time free-range. There was no public transit, only bicycles.
- buu700 6mo ago
  Manhattan is one thing, but I would never let my kids go to the 70s unsupervised.
  - saintfire 6mo ago
    This is the helicopter parenting the article is condemning. Children made it through the 70's just fine.
    - spicyusername 6mo ago
      just fine Just a dash of survivor bias here I believe. I'm pretty sure the data shows the opposite actually, that compared to today some percentage more of them didn't make it out.
com2kid 6mo ago
> Your kids are hardly free-range. Let me guess, there's no way for them to actually meaningfully leave the area (no train, bus, etc)? It's like dumping kids on a 5 acre farm and saying they can do whatever they want. hardly free-range in the way described in the article. This depends on the area. In more urban areas exploring can be done on foot or bike. I live in Seattle, which has some fantastic bike trails that can go on and on for miles and cross into multiple adjacent cities. In some cities parents are fighting to let their kids play in their own front yard unsupervised. Not an issue in Seattle, where kids are required to walk to and from their neighborhood school by the school district. But denser areas also have lots of stuff to do within the neighborhood. Within 2 or so miles there is a massive shopping area, multiple bakeries, tons of restaurants, a slew of parks (Seattle has an obscene density of parks, it is one of the best aspects of living here), a lakefront beach (lots of bodies of water in Seattle), 2 swimming pools, tennis courts, and a bunch of other stuff I am probably forgetting right now. So define free range. If a gaggle of kids travel to the local grocery store together to buy lemons and sugar, then self organize selling lemonade to people passing by on a hot day, is that free range? I'd argue yes.
shawn_w 6mo ago
Redmond has decent (though not great) bus coverage and light rail stations to Seattle and points beyond in the core downtown area and next to a huge park.

ghaff 6mo ago

The usual contrast being drawn is kids wandering around a suburban area, walking to school, playing with kids in a nearby rural property. It's not hopping onto a bus to the city a few tens of miles away. You do see schoolchildren in Japan on the train by themselves but I'm not sure that's ever been very common in the US.

amazingamazing 6mo ago
there's really no reason American kids in metro areas like SF, Boston, DC, NYC couldn't take a bus 5 miles away by themselves. when one comes up of an actual reason to why, it contradicts real statistics. the biggest things parents should worry about is their kid being bullied by other kids during school, a supposedly safe place, and other family. strangers just aren't the major source of violence towards children.
- ButlerianJihad 6mo ago
  Welp this week we in Phoenix are dealing with a report of a 17-year-old high school girl who boarded a light rail train (the one with security cameras and guards) and she was harassed and assaulted by a mob of boys on the train, presumably in front of human onlookers; she disembarked, and was assaulted some more. She is now in a neck brace, and her mother is absolutely distraught, saying this is something she cannot fix for her beloved daughter. I am distraught as well that this could happen to anyone at all on the same train that I ride every week.
  - ghaff 6mo ago
    That's a sad story though getting a bit far afield from young kids taking public transit or otherwise traveling away from their homes. At 17 I was in college and taking urban transportation (and flights) all the time.
  - weakfish 6mo ago
    I’m also curious why you write “we in Phoenix are dealing with…” I’ve noticed a trend of people attaching a sort of personal identification with headlines
    - coldtea 6mo ago
      Perhaps they don't identify as a passive news consumer about irrelevant people, but as a resident with a bond to their city and wider community. Imagine that!
      - jMyles 6mo ago
        I don't think that was the crux of the inquiry / objection. It's wonderful to feel such a bond with one's _community_, but it's a different thing to bind oneself to such a dramatic statistical outlier and make decisions ("dealing with") as if it's a common occurrence.
        ButlerianJihad 6mo ago
        I mean, I don't know what "decisions" would be made but often people say we are "dealing with" emotions or stress related to something that comes out in the news. The crux of my stress on this is that riding the light rail is a very common thing for me and millions of my neighbors. In fact we are shocked because we consider it so safe. The LRT should be the safest place in the city, given the cameras, the crowds, the security guards and the vigilant operators. To think that a vulnerable, female high school student was attacked, broad daylight, onlookers looking, mob of boys (high school I would assume) is just beyond the pale. Nobody did nothing, and the attack continues after she disembarks? It's just unthinkable. There is a Jesuit Catholic boys' school just up the line from where she boarded. Were none of the Brophy boys on hand to step in, to say "stop it" or do anything about it? And to watch the interview with the mother was just the last straw for me. How upset she is now. Her daughter means the world to her; she couldn't protect her, and she can't "fix this" for her. It's heartwrenching. It should've been safe, especially for a girl like her, so close to adulthood, but legally a child.
NordStreamYacht 6mo ago
Japan is a monocultural civilisational state. That is a big factor.
- garbawarb 6mo ago
  American children are in more danger because the country's more diverse?
  - paulryanrogers 6mo ago
    Diversity doesn't make places more dangerous (if i understand the stats). But humans are naturally tribal and fear those who look and act significantly different.
    - coldtea 6mo ago
      Because humans are tribal they will also go on to attack and prey on those who are outside their tribe, making diversity more dangerous. Especially when diversity is not merely some people of different ethnic/racial backgrounds living and working together, but a population split into isolated cultures with different circumstances. Unless there's a big strict enforcer to keep everyone in line of course.
      - macNchz 6mo ago
        This is something a lot of people seem to believe that is not borne out in the research. Plenty of specific counter examples like Queens NY, a densely populated and exceptionally diverse place with crime rates comparable or better than many much more homogenous places in America. Poverty and income inequality are much better predictors. I felt this reddit comment from a while ago did a pretty good job rolling up sources on this: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/1jxff1e/comment/mmpy4yi/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueUnpopularOpinion/comments/1jxff...
    - mmooss 6mo ago
      That depends on an arbitrary perception of 'my tribe'. Irish and Italians used to riot against each other. Germans were hated (look up a quote from Benjamin Franklin). Protestants and Catholics used to riot. Every wave of immigrants seems to get the same treatment by some. Within a few generations, their decendants marry each other.
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tayo42 6mo ago

Plenty of trouble for a 13 year old in Manhattan. Even if it's not dangerous, you can find your own problems easily enough.

kingraoul 6mo ago
I mean by that standard there’s plenty of trouble everywhere for everyone.
borski 6mo ago
You can find your own problems on an abandoned farm too. A kid can always choose to get into trouble, but that’s not what we’re talking about here.
- tayo42 6mo ago
  The type of trouble is different. Your not going to get robbed trying to buy drugs on a farm.
  - borski 6mo ago
    Humboldt County would like a word.
  - com2kid 6mo ago
    I grew up in a neighborhood that had a drug den next to the 7-11 that all the kids went to buy slurpees at. The dealers didn't bother the kids, and the kids knew not to go into that yard. There were plenty of street walkers on a particular stretch of streets. They weren't talking to anyone who wasn't looking to buy. Of course I had the advantage of being a broke kid at the time, so I wasn't a mark for crime. I was just another neighborhood kid who was walking through. It was a working class neighborhood with a few sketchy parts. There was the occasional shooting or drive by, and property theft was common (every bike I had as a kid was stolen from me at some point), but it wasn't unsafe in regards to violence. I almost impaled myself on a rebar pole while jumping my bike over hills at an abandoned construction site. That was the most dangerous thing that ever happened to me growing up there. (well aside from the time I almost died falling into a sink hole and managed to grab onto a nearby tree root and pull myself up in time, but that was in the middle of nearby woods, so not gonna blame that on societal problems!)

Mordisquitos 6mo ago

> It's like dumping kids on a 5 acre farm and saying they can do whatever they want. What do you mean it's like dumping kids on a farm? Are the suburbs really THAT lethally dangerous? Source [22 minutes]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLAfDrFUBkA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLAfDrFUBkA

yieldcrv 6mo ago

> and yet Manhattan is safer than most American suburbs [something traumatic happens and 50 people run for their safety] see and as proven, only 1 person was assaulted! I think a future society that counts trauma and mental health disruptions instead of just the crime stats will reach different conclusions on areas considered safe

zabzonk 6mo ago

> my personal litmus test is if you'd let your 13 year kid explore Manhattan alone during the day My parents let me (14) and my brother (9) explore central Paris on our own when my Dad was working at the Paris air show for the RAF. No problems at all even though this was just after the student protests in the 60s, and so things were a little tense. I think Manhattan would be OK too, though I've only been there as an adjust. Certainly, you see kids running around London.

zabzonk 6mo ago
s/adjust/adult/
graemep 6mo ago
London and the bits of Pars I have seen are pleasant places to work around. London does have its bad areas, as do other cities. Small towns in the UK are fine, as is most public transport. Parents have got more protective but I still see plenty out by themselves where I live.
semiquaver 6mo ago
13??? I’m shocked that it’s even a question. Of course a 13 year old should be allowed to do that.
insane_dreamer 6mo ago
I let my then 13 yr old daughter go around Beijing by bus/subway when we lived there 10 years ago; she had a phone. Felt perfectly safe. Same thing in Tokyo. I'm not sure I would have allowed that had we been living in a big US city like LA, Chicago or NYC -- maybe it's just as safe, IDK, but the fact that anyone in the US can own/carry a weapon makes me feel much less safe than in other developed countries.

ryandrake 6mo ago

Yea, I always through "free range" meant the kid walking (or taking the bus/train) a few miles through the city to get to an actual "other place" destination. Not "playing across the street in the suburban park." If the latter is now considered unusual, we have some big problems!!

nostrebored 6mo ago
It is in SF. My son’s school would not let him walk 3 minutes to an aftercare program. They were actually willing to break federal law to stop him from walking a single block away. I also let him play at the park on his own occasionally. I will get calls from well meaning but extremely overprotective friends to let me know that “they can’t watch him anymore.” He is ten! The library, connected to the park, has a phone which he can use to reach us. People called my parents hover parents, but at ten I could have played at the neighborhood park by myself.
em-bee 6mo ago
If the latter is now considered unusual, we have some big problems!! it is, and we do: https://www.offthegridnews.com/current-events/mom-charged-with-child-endangerment-for-letting-daughter-play-in-park-across-the-street/ https://www.offthegridnews.com/current-events/mom-charged-wi... https://reason.com/2025/08/09/child-protective-services-investigated-her-4-times-because-she-let-her-kids-play-outside/ https://reason.com/2025/08/09/child-protective-services-inve... https://reason.com/2026/01/16/she-let-her-6-year-old-ride-to-the-park-alone-georgia-called-it-neglect/ https://reason.com/2026/01/16/she-let-her-6-year-old-ride-to... https://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/31/living/florida-mom-arrested-son-park/ https://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/31/living/florida-mom-arrest... https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/parents-investigated-for-letting-freerange-kids-play-in-park-alone/news-story/7a8ab1301f333809875b9b24533c03f7 https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/parents-investig... https://nationalpost.com/news/growing-up-independent-is-illegal-mom-arrested-in-u-s-for-letting-nine-year-old-daughter-play-alone-in-park https://nationalpost.com/news/growing-up-independent-is-ille... https://www.todaysparent.com/blogs/mom-arrested-leaving-daughter-park-alone/ https://www.todaysparent.com/blogs/mom-arrested-leaving-daug... https://legalclarity.org/is-it-illegal-to-let-your-kid-play-outside-alone/ https://legalclarity.org/is-it-illegal-to-let-your-kid-play-... those are all from the first page of a search for "parents charged for letting kids alone on the playground" there are probably many more such stories.

beej71 6mo ago

I grew up in the 70s in a town of 30,000 and consider that time free-range. There was no public transit, only bicycles.

buu700 6mo ago
Manhattan is one thing, but I would never let my kids go to the 70s unsupervised.
- saintfire 6mo ago
  This is the helicopter parenting the article is condemning. Children made it through the 70's just fine.
  - spicyusername 6mo ago
    just fine Just a dash of survivor bias here I believe. I'm pretty sure the data shows the opposite actually, that compared to today some percentage more of them didn't make it out.

com2kid 6mo ago

> Your kids are hardly free-range. Let me guess, there's no way for them to actually meaningfully leave the area (no train, bus, etc)? It's like dumping kids on a 5 acre farm and saying they can do whatever they want. hardly free-range in the way described in the article. This depends on the area. In more urban areas exploring can be done on foot or bike. I live in Seattle, which has some fantastic bike trails that can go on and on for miles and cross into multiple adjacent cities. In some cities parents are fighting to let their kids play in their own front yard unsupervised. Not an issue in Seattle, where kids are required to walk to and from their neighborhood school by the school district. But denser areas also have lots of stuff to do within the neighborhood. Within 2 or so miles there is a massive shopping area, multiple bakeries, tons of restaurants, a slew of parks (Seattle has an obscene density of parks, it is one of the best aspects of living here), a lakefront beach (lots of bodies of water in Seattle), 2 swimming pools, tennis courts, and a bunch of other stuff I am probably forgetting right now. So define free range. If a gaggle of kids travel to the local grocery store together to buy lemons and sugar, then self organize selling lemonade to people passing by on a hot day, is that free range? I'd argue yes.

shawn_w 6mo ago

Redmond has decent (though not great) bus coverage and light rail stations to Seattle and points beyond in the core downtown area and next to a huge park.