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as long as people keep voting for politicians that are complicit with pro zionist policies
by 22122 6mo ago
as long as people keep voting for politicians that are complicit with pro zionist policies
- voxl 6mo agoPart of the problem is the conflation of Zionism with genocidal government. There is no room for nuiance. A Zionist can want Israelites to live in peace where they currently are and not harm others, and certainly not commit horrible atrocities against other people. Yet, even this kind of Zionist is under their own genocidal threat, "from the river to the sea", and instead of their being a sensible perspective of "maybe let's not kill a bunch of any people's" we are left with the never ending debate or whose worse.
- khaledh 6mo ago[flagged]
- voxl 6mo agoRevionist history at work.
- Supermancho 6mo agoWhat part? eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ott... ?
- DaveFr 6mo agoThis part https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi Edit: Sorry, I can't reply to your comment below, for some reason. This part, > Did you know that Jews lived among Muslims for over a thousand years in peace? is revisionist because it paints second-class status for Jews as "peace". This is ridiculous, a fiction akin to "separate but equal" without even the pretense of equality. Additionally, > The violence started happening when the Zionists wanted the land for themselves, exclusive of the indigenous population (1948 nakba). Is ahistorical. There have been small but continuous Jewish settlements in the region since antiquity, Jews are indigenous. Further, Zionist immigration started earlier than 1948, as early as the late 1800s, and finally, Arabs fled Israel to avoid the incoming invasion from Arab Muslim nations who, for bigoted reasons, could not tolerate a Jewish state.
- Supermancho 6mo agoIt’s not clear what "revisionist" means in this context, especially when pointing to Dhimmi. I’ve never heard of it before today. I’m aware that Jews and Muslims live in Iran today. There is historical evidence, including written accounts, that some arrangement (Dhimmi?) existed over 1,200 years ago—whether social, legal, cultural, or, most likely, a combination. Under this system, the religions coexisted without the overtones of genocide within their communities.
- thomassmith65 6mo agotoday. I’m aware that Jews and Muslims live in Iran today That is true, in the sense that there are more than two jews left in Iran. 5x as many Iranian jews live in the USA now. 20x in Israel. Iran has a population of almost 100 million, and the Hollywood Bowl could seat its jewish population twice over. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Jews https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Jews
- Supermancho 6mo agoI found this: https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2025/11/22/iran-drops-the-facade-of-tolerance-toward-persian-jews/ https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2025/11/22/iran-drops-the-facad... Which has been enlightening. Thank you for highlighting the tenuous situation in Iran, which is not favorable toward Jews. This does shed light on the affair and seems credible to me.
- 22122 6mo agowho gave the jews a state? people think it was britain but britain agreed to the balfour declaration, an agreement made between zionist bankers and the british state which involved upholding the rights of the indigenous arab population and which did not involve the creation of a jewish state. how do you think jews got their state regardless? did britain change their mind and decide to give jews more than they agreed to give them?
- Sabinus 6mo ago
- SilverElfin 6mo agoAll of it? Islam literally calls for violence and oppression of anyone who isn’t a Muslim. It’s literally in the Quran. Islam spread to many of the regions it is now in through invasion and genocidal violence. For example, they colonized India before Europeans did. They have completely erased the previous cultures and ethnic groups of the North African countries. Etc.
- khaledh 6mo agoThis is categorically false. The Quran explicitly says "There is no compulsion in religion". It teaches Muslims to say "You have your religion, and I have my religion". It tells Muslims to fight only those who fight them and "do not exceed the limits". In fact, it says God does not forbid Muslims from dealing "kindly and fairly" with non-Muslims who have not fought or expelled them.
- aibrahem 6mo agoThis is categorically false. After the Islamic conquest it took Egypt around 800 years to be a muslim majority country; under Islamic rule.
- wqaatwt 6mo agoThey were second class citizens with limited rights (quite a bit like the people in the occupied West Bank for that matter..)
- 22122 6mo agothey were merchants and artisans part of an international diaspora spanning thousands of miles, it was really an economic role that they chose to assume. they weren't victims of a racist occupation like arabs in the west bank today. some would say that they were kicked out of their homeland so it wasn't really a choice but there's actually no evidence that this ever happened. for one thing, jews have always lived in judea and there's no record of them being expelled from anywhere there except the city of jerusalem in the 2nd century by the romans after they tried another revolt. there was a huge jewish diaspora before that revolt and even before the 1st century revolt. the jewish diaspora was likely primarily a result of economic migration and subsequent success of jewish communities in certain economic roles as a diasporic community spanning many different lands.
- wqaatwt 6mo ago> economic role that they chose to assume The only choice they had which would have allowed them assume any other role was conversion to Islam. > no evidence that this ever happened There is obviously evidence and there several major Jewish or Samaritan revolts until the Romans lost Palestine in the 600s with the last revolt being quite brutal. Of course the scale of expulsions, forced conversions and massacres is not really known but the region was almost certainly majority Christian by the time the Muslims got there > there was a huge jewish diaspora before that revolt and even before the 1st century revolt There is no strong evidence of that either (depending on how one defines “huge” of course)
- 22122 6mo agoIslam allowed jews to own land, just like how it allowed christians to own land. if there were several jewish revolts until the 600s that is evidence that they did not result in significant expulsions. the fact that the region became majority christian is not evidence of a major expulsion of jews and subsequent replacement by christians, likely they mostly converted just like how most christians would end up converting to islam. In any case it wasn't muslims who expelled them so they can't take it out on the indigenous muslims of the west bank. there are records of jewish presence across the medditerranean region and the near east for centuries prior to the first roman jewish war
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- nielsbot 6mo agoha! you need to study history more
- metalman 6mo ago[flagged]
- aibrahem 6mo agoFrom the beginning, the founders of the Zionist movement were completely on board with the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Palestinians from their lands to establish the Israeli state.
- SilverElfin 6mo ago[flagged]
- wqaatwt 6mo ago> Palestinians are not indigenous What does that even mean? Just because they converted (or were forced) to another religion? Even the Hebrew recognizes there were plenty of other people living in territory of what is now modern Israel and that the Hebrews violently subjugated quite a few of them. > the continuation of Canaanite culture Well culturally they became mostly European, Arab etc. depending on where they lived.
- happymellon 6mo agoUnited States citizens are not indigenous to the region. Native Americans are, and the continuation of the indinginous peoples culture. People who have taken over the area and now call themselves "American" are just laying claim by making up a new identity.
- SilverElfin 6mo agoI agree.
- lemontheme 6mo agoImagine having access to information about thousands of years of human history, with all its big migrations, the ebbs and flows of civilizations, religions and empires, and still actually thinking one people in particular have some natural claim to a stretch of land. What if instead we respected state sovereignty and international law for the betterment of all instead of continually stirring up shit to benefit of a few powerful figures?
- 22122 6mo ago[flagged]
- Grimblewald 6mo ago[flagged]
- nielsbot 6mo agoThe only way Zionism can be moral is if it abandons the idea of a Jewish supremacist nation.
- DaveFr 6mo agoNobody says this about any Islamic country
- 4MOAisgoodenuf 6mo agoWhen an “Islamic country” starts getting several billions of dollars in aid from the US and begins “quadruple tapping” civilians, then I suppose there will be some outrage. In the meantime, this outrage appears to be more based in the criminal conduct of a genocidal state than any religious amenity
- DaveFr 6mo ago??? The US gives billions in aid to Jordan and Egypt, who torture and kill dissident civilians. And, it's not a genocide to lose a war you started.
- SilverElfin 6mo agoHow do you think Islam spread? Peacefully? Look at history. And look at Islamic texts that preach the subjugation and killing of anyone who isn’t Islamic. It’s much more of a supremacist culture than any other.
- 22122 6mo agoislam wasn't the only religion to have an empire. and islam spread through voluntary conversion, for hundreds of years the subjects of the islamic empires remained majority the pre conquest religion. also no muslim empire ever conquered indonesia and malaysia, yet they are two muslim majority countries today.
- 6mo ago
- aeonfox 6mo agoAre there any polls (or any educated guesses) gauging what proportion of people who identify as Zionists want equal status with all Palestinians (particularly democratic rights) within the bounds of what was once Mandatory Palestine?
- sph 6mo ago> Part of the problem is the conflation of Zionism with genocidal government. There is no room for nuiance This blame falls squarely on Israelis and Jewish people as a whole for conflating Zionism, Israel and Jewishness as a single thing, and branding anyone who dared to be critical of Zionism as antisemitic. Now they try to distance themselves and rightly so, but it is their fault that the victim agenda backfired terribly. I have expressed my solidarity to non-Zionist Jewish people in a previous comment, but still all I hear is victimization at how the world at large treats them rather than real anger and disgust at what the State of Israel is doing in their name. Where are the angry non-Zionist protests? Where are the people renouncing their dual citizenships? The reaction is still very subdued for a genocide in massive scale, and at times it is hard for us gentiles to feel sorry for their apathy.
- cnd78A 6mo ago* A Zionist can want Israelites to live in peace where they currently are* = they want to live in peace in a land they took by murdering its inhabitant. You can have Jews living in Palestine though but it's not Zionism.
- C6JEsQeQa5fCjE 6mo agoActions, not words. Otherwise we'd be believing that a certain political party in the 40s Germany was simply all about work setting you free. Zionists have showed what they are about through their actions ever since establishing their ethnosupremacist state. And they showed that genocide is not a red line to them over the past 2 and a half years. What they say they are about on paper is no longer relevant.
- pandaman 6mo ago>is under their own genocidal threat, "from the river to the sea" So, when Zionists used the same language [1] it's for peace but if goyim do then it's a threat, and a genocidal one, no less? 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea#Historical_usage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea#Hist...
- nielsbot 6mo agoUntil recently, in the US at least, there wasn’t any non-zionist choice. Same for the UK and for Germany. Thank God this is changing, but it’s going much too slowly.
- aeonfox 6mo agoWho's the 'non-zionist' choice in the US?
- karim79 6mo agoThe only one I can think of offhand is Bernie Sanders.
- nielsbot 6mo agoAnd even he was saying Zionist things just a few years ago. He’s not a paragon of anti-Zionism but glad he’s moved on this. At least publicly.
- redanddead 6mo agoIt's not crazy either, in Canada we have Avi Lewis, he leads a federal party and is very outspoken
- nslsm 6mo ago>Born into a working-class Jewish family and raised in New York…
- i_cannot_hack 6mo agoBeing jewish is not the same as condoning Israel's war crimes (which shouldn't even have to be clarified, but here we are...)
- bdangubic 6mo agoJoseph Biden
- casey2 6mo agoWho remembers when they shut down the country so they wouldn't lose votes?