6 ms·

> already painful and readily apparent, stagnation of your browser What's wrong with Firefox? There are several things Firefox does that it's annoying to live

> already painful and readily apparent, stagnation of your browser What's wrong with Firefox? There are several things Firefox does that it's annoying to live without in other browsers (video pop-outs, competent ad blocking, etc). Is there some core feature that's missing? I'm subjected to Edge at work and I couldn't tell you a single thing it does that I'd want FF to do. > and our standards bodies as entities distinct from corporations Ok, I buy that.

Onavo 6mo ago
It's slow. It almost always trails Safari and Chrome on most benchmarks. See e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1ljns9o/freshly_released_firefox_140_benchmarked_against/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1ljns9o/freshly_re...
- braiamp 6mo ago
  How many milliseconds do you think this page took to render? I usually click and it's already done.
  - latexr 6mo ago
    HN is a fast site (comparatively; most websites are unnecessarily slow). It’s a bad measurement.
    - galangalalgol 6mo ago
      HN is a good website. Ebay is another good example where JavaScript is optional but with good functionality. Marko was mocked, but now Astro is cool because they invented ssr...
  - drzaiusx11 6mo ago
    HN is not the most complex website rendering wise by any imaginable metric. I presume HN renders equally as fast on lynx or Mosaic from 1994...
- eipi10_hn 6mo ago
  I don't care about benchmarks.
someguyiguess 6mo ago
It doesn’t support a lot of video formats that Chrome and Safari have supported for years (h265 is one I think. I’m no expert)
- holowoodman 6mo ago
  h264 and h265 are patent-encumbered and therefore very expensive and/or dangerous. Patent trolls would rip Mozilla apart and eat all their money. The only reason H.264 works atm is that Cisco sponsors a plugin for that.
  - tux3 6mo ago
    H264 patents are finally starting to expire, all the known patents have already expired in Europe. As for HEVC, that particular licensing trash fire continues to burn bright. VVC had an opportunity to learn from the situation, and decided what they really wanted was a trash fire that burned even brighter. So, we might be stuck with H264 for a little bit.
- dtech 6mo ago
  I don't event think h265 is widely supported. On Windows you have to pay separately for it
- amlib 6mo ago
  Firefox has had support for h265 for a few months by now, they finally relented.
drzaiusx11 6mo ago
Some folks have already discussed this in sister comments to the one you're responding to, but it's a common enough hn discussion topic that searching will answer beyond that (better than I can regurgitate here.)
x0x0 6mo ago
reddit tab, firefox: 428mb. same tab, chrome: 78mb.
- mschild 6mo ago
  I get 80mb for reddit on firefox. That number can be down to any number of different factors on reddit itself. Having an autoplay video running, etc.
  - galangalalgol 6mo ago
    Firefox often groups tabs from the same site into one process. With large numbers of the same tabs open in both, check the total memory for all firefox processes and all firefox processes. You will likely find firefox actually uses less memory than chrome.
  - x0x0 6mo ago
    The endless excuses and lies. It was the same page, both on old.
- theodric 6mo ago
  I will eat the RAM penalty to resist the Chromium hegemon. Grateful to have any alternative!
- thunderfork 6mo ago
  Memory measurements reported in browsers come with substantial caveats, as measuring "how much memory is this tab using" is fairly nontrivial. Not saying there isn't a difference, but you'd need to measure (e.g.) a fresh install viewing only one tab with no extensions, etc.
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
Neywiny 6mo ago
Web usb and serial are not just missing, last I checked Mozilla is opting to not implement based on their moral stance. It just puts them behind for some stuff.
- balloob 6mo ago
  WebSerial just landed in Firefox nightly! https://bsky.app/profile/paulusschoutsen.nl/post/3mjfdx3ujta2p https://bsky.app/profile/paulusschoutsen.nl/post/3mjfdx3ujta...
- yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
  > It just puts them behind for some stuff. Yeah, it really undermines their ability to compromise user security and privacy.
  - realusername 6mo ago
    There's a lot of good use-cases of Web usb, you can't just cut everything which might have privacy aspects otherwise the browsers wouldn't have canvas or even gpu rendering.
    - galangalalgol 6mo ago
      What are those use cases? It seems like a giant hole punched all the way from a tab's sandbox through the process boundary and out to the kernel... Yes, gpu rendering is a great example of the same problem. Canvas at least has some intervening layers depending on implementation.
      - realusername 6mo ago
        GrapheneOS for example can install with web usb, I think it makes it much easier for people who aren't too tech savvy to switch. Somebody also recently shared an awesome project which let's you use an usb printer regardless of your OS driver.
      - thayne 6mo ago
captn3m0 6mo ago
Firefox on iOS still doesn't support extensions or adblocking - something Safari (and other browsers as well) do.
- jampekka 6mo ago
  Firefox on iOS isn't really a Firefox because Apple doesn't allow alternative browsers. It's a Safari skin.
  - hutattedonmyarm 6mo ago
    Orion on iOS is also a Safari skin and supports extensions
    - charcircuit 6mo ago
      And Brave on iOS has blocking built in to the browser itself instead of like Firefox on Android where you have to trust a 3rd party dev.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
        To be quite clear, I trust gorhill more than I trust mozilla.
      - eipi10_hn 6mo ago
        LMFAO. Brave uses uBO's lists and filters, including trusted filters which have much more capabilities with much more risks to your sites' data and they allow that on all other lists too (even uBO only allows their own lists as trusted by default, other lists need to have permissions from users manually). That's how they can block youtube ads, and no they don't code their own filters for youtube ads either. And be assure that they can't check 100% all commits from uBO and other lists either. If you want to play "no trust to a 3rd party dev", you should not use Brave's adblocker either. Or at least turn off all the lists inside it, and use your own lists. Your security risk is in those stock lists.
latchkey 6mo ago
I'm building a fairly complicated browser extension [0]. Debugging the extension on Chrome, it works great. On Firefox, it is nearly impossible. There are a litany of compatibility issues that make it "different" than Chrome, despite the extension being very much standards based. It is really frustrating and makes me dread getting bug reports. To be fair, Safari is even worse and I haven't even touched Edge yet. As much as I'd love to have options in the marketplace, standards based compatibility between offerings should be a top line requirement. [0] https://oj-hn.com https://oj-hn.com
- galangalalgol 6mo ago
  The standards used to be there. Chrome decided they made ad blocking too easy and unilaterally changed the standard. Firefox is still on the standard. Chrome is what deviated, and while performance was improved, that was definitely not the motive.
  - latchkey 6mo ago
    Nope. https://github.com/OrangeJuiceExtension/OrangeJuice/blob/5beea9935e6b57d9267ac390d1b435ba4ade6a7f/wxt.config.ts#L35-L42 https://github.com/OrangeJuiceExtension/OrangeJuice/blob/5be...
latexr 6mo ago
> What's wrong with Firefox? It seems like every thread talking about Firefox always has someone asking that question, so if you search back you should find plenty of reasons. Unfortunately, it’s been my observation that valid and polite criticisms always get downvoted. I don’t understand why. It’s not like downvotes are going to make the problems disappear. Most of us would like Firefox to succeed, and it’s none of our faults that Mozilla is constantly neglecting it and going off on wild goose projects which get promptly abandoned.
- jampekka 6mo ago
  I use Firefox on both Linux and Android for 99% of my web browsing needs. At least for me it's the best browser out there, and doesn't seem neglegted at all.
  - latexr 6mo ago
    Good for you. I’m genuinely glad, you should use whatever you like, I don’t care for flame-wars. For me, it lacks several must-haves (I’m not going to waste my time repeating them, history has shown that’s a stupid waste of time and the downvotes on the original comment only prove my point). That’s why we have so many apps, everyone has different needs.
- fmbb 6mo ago
  Upvotes are not going to make problems actually relevant to solve. The question keeps getting asked because people say they have problems. Answers (if any come) tells everyone what the problem is for this one user that raised it. In aggregate we can all see that the problems are not very real for the vast majority of users. The biggest problem users actually face with using Firefox is that web devs don’t want to support more than one browser and they have picked Chrome now. Or IT departments have blessed one and only one browser on corporate machines and it is the one most corpoware developers build extensions for. Chasing web standards is a second order problem and will not make the user experience better in a relevant manner for end users. If web developers want an open web, they have to work to support open browsers. Yeah the criticism is not invalid, but it is also often half-relevant soapboxing and I would wager that is why it tends to get downvoted.
thayne 6mo ago
Yes there are things that Firefox does better than others, and that is one reason I use Firefox. But there are definitely things I would like to see improved, like: - PWA support on Linux - better performance - devtools should be able to handle sites with large amounts of js with sourcemaps - fix a number of bugs that have been open for a long time - don't lag behind standards as much (I'm not talking about things where they intentionally don't implement problematic "standards" pushed by google) - make it feasible to embed gecko in other projects similar to how chromium is used by electron and webkit is used in "webviews"
charcircuit 6mo ago
It doesn't support WebNFC or WebUSB.

Onavo 6mo ago

It's slow. It almost always trails Safari and Chrome on most benchmarks. See e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1ljns9o/freshly_released_firefox_140_benchmarked_against/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1ljns9o/freshly_re...

braiamp 6mo ago
How many milliseconds do you think this page took to render? I usually click and it's already done.
- latexr 6mo ago
  HN is a fast site (comparatively; most websites are unnecessarily slow). It’s a bad measurement.
  - galangalalgol 6mo ago
    HN is a good website. Ebay is another good example where JavaScript is optional but with good functionality. Marko was mocked, but now Astro is cool because they invented ssr...
- drzaiusx11 6mo ago
  HN is not the most complex website rendering wise by any imaginable metric. I presume HN renders equally as fast on lynx or Mosaic from 1994...
eipi10_hn 6mo ago
I don't care about benchmarks.

someguyiguess 6mo ago

It doesn’t support a lot of video formats that Chrome and Safari have supported for years (h265 is one I think. I’m no expert)

holowoodman 6mo ago
h264 and h265 are patent-encumbered and therefore very expensive and/or dangerous. Patent trolls would rip Mozilla apart and eat all their money. The only reason H.264 works atm is that Cisco sponsors a plugin for that.
- tux3 6mo ago
  H264 patents are finally starting to expire, all the known patents have already expired in Europe. As for HEVC, that particular licensing trash fire continues to burn bright. VVC had an opportunity to learn from the situation, and decided what they really wanted was a trash fire that burned even brighter. So, we might be stuck with H264 for a little bit.
dtech 6mo ago
I don't event think h265 is widely supported. On Windows you have to pay separately for it
amlib 6mo ago
Firefox has had support for h265 for a few months by now, they finally relented.

drzaiusx11 6mo ago

Some folks have already discussed this in sister comments to the one you're responding to, but it's a common enough hn discussion topic that searching will answer beyond that (better than I can regurgitate here.)

x0x0 6mo ago

reddit tab, firefox: 428mb. same tab, chrome: 78mb.

mschild 6mo ago
I get 80mb for reddit on firefox. That number can be down to any number of different factors on reddit itself. Having an autoplay video running, etc.
- galangalalgol 6mo ago
  Firefox often groups tabs from the same site into one process. With large numbers of the same tabs open in both, check the total memory for all firefox processes and all firefox processes. You will likely find firefox actually uses less memory than chrome.
- x0x0 6mo ago
  The endless excuses and lies. It was the same page, both on old.
theodric 6mo ago
I will eat the RAM penalty to resist the Chromium hegemon. Grateful to have any alternative!
thunderfork 6mo ago
Memory measurements reported in browsers come with substantial caveats, as measuring "how much memory is this tab using" is fairly nontrivial. Not saying there isn't a difference, but you'd need to measure (e.g.) a fresh install viewing only one tab with no extensions, etc.

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]

Neywiny 6mo ago

Web usb and serial are not just missing, last I checked Mozilla is opting to not implement based on their moral stance. It just puts them behind for some stuff.

balloob 6mo ago
WebSerial just landed in Firefox nightly! https://bsky.app/profile/paulusschoutsen.nl/post/3mjfdx3ujta2p https://bsky.app/profile/paulusschoutsen.nl/post/3mjfdx3ujta...
yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
> It just puts them behind for some stuff. Yeah, it really undermines their ability to compromise user security and privacy.
- realusername 6mo ago
  There's a lot of good use-cases of Web usb, you can't just cut everything which might have privacy aspects otherwise the browsers wouldn't have canvas or even gpu rendering.
  - galangalalgol 6mo ago
    What are those use cases? It seems like a giant hole punched all the way from a tab's sandbox through the process boundary and out to the kernel... Yes, gpu rendering is a great example of the same problem. Canvas at least has some intervening layers depending on implementation.
    - realusername 6mo ago
      GrapheneOS for example can install with web usb, I think it makes it much easier for people who aren't too tech savvy to switch. Somebody also recently shared an awesome project which let's you use an usb printer regardless of your OS driver.
    - thayne 6mo ago

captn3m0 6mo ago

Firefox on iOS still doesn't support extensions or adblocking - something Safari (and other browsers as well) do.

jampekka 6mo ago
Firefox on iOS isn't really a Firefox because Apple doesn't allow alternative browsers. It's a Safari skin.
- hutattedonmyarm 6mo ago
  Orion on iOS is also a Safari skin and supports extensions
  - charcircuit 6mo ago
    And Brave on iOS has blocking built in to the browser itself instead of like Firefox on Android where you have to trust a 3rd party dev.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 6mo ago
      To be quite clear, I trust gorhill more than I trust mozilla.
    - eipi10_hn 6mo ago
      LMFAO. Brave uses uBO's lists and filters, including trusted filters which have much more capabilities with much more risks to your sites' data and they allow that on all other lists too (even uBO only allows their own lists as trusted by default, other lists need to have permissions from users manually). That's how they can block youtube ads, and no they don't code their own filters for youtube ads either. And be assure that they can't check 100% all commits from uBO and other lists either. If you want to play "no trust to a 3rd party dev", you should not use Brave's adblocker either. Or at least turn off all the lists inside it, and use your own lists. Your security risk is in those stock lists.

latchkey 6mo ago

I'm building a fairly complicated browser extension [0]. Debugging the extension on Chrome, it works great. On Firefox, it is nearly impossible. There are a litany of compatibility issues that make it "different" than Chrome, despite the extension being very much standards based. It is really frustrating and makes me dread getting bug reports. To be fair, Safari is even worse and I haven't even touched Edge yet. As much as I'd love to have options in the marketplace, standards based compatibility between offerings should be a top line requirement. [0] https://oj-hn.com https://oj-hn.com

galangalalgol 6mo ago
The standards used to be there. Chrome decided they made ad blocking too easy and unilaterally changed the standard. Firefox is still on the standard. Chrome is what deviated, and while performance was improved, that was definitely not the motive.
- latchkey 6mo ago
  Nope. https://github.com/OrangeJuiceExtension/OrangeJuice/blob/5beea9935e6b57d9267ac390d1b435ba4ade6a7f/wxt.config.ts#L35-L42 https://github.com/OrangeJuiceExtension/OrangeJuice/blob/5be...

latexr 6mo ago

> What's wrong with Firefox? It seems like every thread talking about Firefox always has someone asking that question, so if you search back you should find plenty of reasons. Unfortunately, it’s been my observation that valid and polite criticisms always get downvoted. I don’t understand why. It’s not like downvotes are going to make the problems disappear. Most of us would like Firefox to succeed, and it’s none of our faults that Mozilla is constantly neglecting it and going off on wild goose projects which get promptly abandoned.

jampekka 6mo ago
I use Firefox on both Linux and Android for 99% of my web browsing needs. At least for me it's the best browser out there, and doesn't seem neglegted at all.
- latexr 6mo ago
  Good for you. I’m genuinely glad, you should use whatever you like, I don’t care for flame-wars. For me, it lacks several must-haves (I’m not going to waste my time repeating them, history has shown that’s a stupid waste of time and the downvotes on the original comment only prove my point). That’s why we have so many apps, everyone has different needs.
fmbb 6mo ago
Upvotes are not going to make problems actually relevant to solve. The question keeps getting asked because people say they have problems. Answers (if any come) tells everyone what the problem is for this one user that raised it. In aggregate we can all see that the problems are not very real for the vast majority of users. The biggest problem users actually face with using Firefox is that web devs don’t want to support more than one browser and they have picked Chrome now. Or IT departments have blessed one and only one browser on corporate machines and it is the one most corpoware developers build extensions for. Chasing web standards is a second order problem and will not make the user experience better in a relevant manner for end users. If web developers want an open web, they have to work to support open browsers. Yeah the criticism is not invalid, but it is also often half-relevant soapboxing and I would wager that is why it tends to get downvoted.

thayne 6mo ago

Yes there are things that Firefox does better than others, and that is one reason I use Firefox. But there are definitely things I would like to see improved, like: - PWA support on Linux - better performance - devtools should be able to handle sites with large amounts of js with sourcemaps - fix a number of bugs that have been open for a long time - don't lag behind standards as much (I'm not talking about things where they intentionally don't implement problematic "standards" pushed by google) - make it feasible to embed gecko in other projects similar to how chromium is used by electron and webkit is used in "webviews"

charcircuit 6mo ago

It doesn't support WebNFC or WebUSB.