4 ms·

Two years ago, I was enjoying a drink with my wife, her friend, a very senior female VC partner, and another friend. Somehow we talked AI in some depth, and th

by grvdrm 6mo ago

Two years ago, I was enjoying a drink with my wife, her friend, a very senior female VC partner, and another friend. Somehow we talked AI in some depth, and the VC at one point said (about AI): “I don’t know what our kids are going to do for work. I don’t know what jobs there will be to do.” That same VC invests in AI companies and by what I heard about her, has done phenomenally well. I think about that exchange all the time. Worried about your own kids but acting against their interests. It unsettled me, and Kyle’s excellent articles brought that back to a boiling point in my mind. Edit: are->our

throwanem 6mo ago
And people wonder why I'm doing all I can to ensure that world will never, ever again even pretend to try to find a place for me.
- grvdrm 6mo ago
  Correct! Mobile typo - sorry!
nothinkjustai 6mo ago
VC’s aren’t exactly known for being both wise and intelligent.
- grvdrm 6mo ago
  Perhaps but it’s more the concept/contrast presented that stuck with me more than the persona. That said - that VC isn’t alone along with many other capital allocators.
wrs 6mo ago
Assuming “phenomenally well” means what it says, the conversation would have suddenly gotten a lot more real if she had said that more precisely: “I don’t know what your kids are going to do for work.”
- fnimick 6mo ago
  Yeah. Her kids will be fine with generational wealth. Everyone else's - not so much. This is the problem in a nutshell - people are happy to do things they know are harmful for personal profit.
- grvdrm 6mo ago
  Totally. And yes you got it.
denismenace 6mo ago
[flagged]
- steve_adams_86 6mo ago
  But, what if people putting their energy into ensuring society adapts with the technology safely and positively would be better than focusing on finding ways to capitalize off of whatever happens to occur instead? I'm not saying one person can do that alone, but if we collectively believe we should focus on capitalization instead, then there's no one present to influence a more constructive, pro-social, sustainable course for society. So I don't think it's ridiculous to think it's acting against their interests. Money won't get your kids very far if the thing that made you wealthy also pulled the rug from under them. There needs to be more of a strategy than capital.
nradov 6mo ago
At the beginning of the industrial revolution we didn't know what people would do for work but we eventually figured it out. Human demands are effectively infinite so there will always be work for other humans to satisfy those demands. The transition period may be disruptive.
- grvdrm 6mo ago
  I agree. Her statement in pure literal terms is quite negative whereas the reality may be quite different. Predictions aren’t certainties.
furyofantares 6mo ago
There's plenty of things you can be simultaneously worried and optimistic about, and I find this is constantly true of parenting. I will encourage my kid to gain independence, but of course I'm worried about it! The fact that there is uncertainty in her independence and that I can imagine bad outcomes does not mean I'm working against her interest by encouraging it. "I don't know what jobs there will be to do" is a statement of uncertainty, and, given how you are relaying it, there must have been fear there as well. But it doesn't seem like it's a statement that the world will be worse. You can be fearful and hopeful at the same time, and fear tends to be the stronger of the two, and come out more strongly, again especially in parenting I find, even if you find the hopeful outcomes more likely.
- grvdrm 6mo ago
  I’m with you. Your example is little squishier to me but I am a parent so I understand your point.
Unai 6mo ago
In the other hand, shouldn't it be the objective of humanity to not HAVE to work for the most basic survival and to fit into society? Not that we're in any way in that path, of course, with the people making the working machines also accumulating all the wealth. But still, there's something intrinsically good about automation, even when the system is not suited for it.
- grvdrm 6mo ago
  But in another world doesn’t automation just produce yet another set of things to do? Perhaps i am doing this all wrong but in my world more automation has never produced less work unless I conveniently told no one and therefore filled “free” time how i wanted.
  - munksbeer 6mo ago
    You're sending mixed messages here. Automation is going to put us all out of jobs, or automation isn't going to produce less work and so we'll still have lots to do? Personally, I think until real AGI, the current LLMs will automate a lot of tasks, but the market will adapt and humans still end up with about the same percentage of employment and wages.
    - grvdrm 6mo ago
      My original post was about her comment. It seemed like she was both concerned about the presence of jobs for kids while also investing in the very thing possibly taking away those jobs. The contrast was unsettling. My own take is very much “wait and see and make sure to stay aware/skill up” My automation point is just that at least in my career (20 years), my workload has rarely gone down even with plenty of automation around.
- loloquwowndueo 6mo ago
  It’s automating the wrong thing. I want my ai to do dishes and laundry so I can write, draw, do deep cognitive work. Not for it to do cognitive work and write and draw while I don dishes and laundry.
shimman 6mo ago
I really hope they increase taxes and stop letting VC firms gamble with pension funds. These people shouldn't have their current jobs already, and you're telling me they're also dictating how technology is being shaped in the country as well?
warkdarrior 6mo ago
If that VC partner gathered sufficient generational wealth, their kids will not have to worry about earning an income.
stronglikedan 6mo ago
Sounds like she's acting in their best interests to me. Her kids will find something to do - the same things everyone else will find to do. There's just going to be a lot less working-for-a-living, and it's going to be glorious.
- grvdrm 6mo ago
  Hm. Well, certainly one way to look at it. I don’t feel confident that we have a clear idea in either direction. That’s one reason I found the statement peculiar - sort of a rooted fear in no jobs.
harryquach 6mo ago
> Worried about your own kids but acting against their interests. > That same VC invests in AI companies and by what I heard about her, has done phenomenally well. Her kids will be fine, its the vast majority of other, non wealthy, kids who are in trouble.
voidhorse 6mo ago
False Consciousness was the old marxist term for this inadvertent working against your own ultimate self-interest. It's rife in capitalism. If you look closely you'll see it everywhere. (note that even the "her kids will be ok" isn't true at the limit. If wealth concentrates sufficiently enough it will lead to societal collapse)

by grvdrm 6mo ago

throwanem 6mo ago

And people wonder why I'm doing all I can to ensure that world will never, ever again even pretend to try to find a place for me.

grvdrm 6mo ago
Correct! Mobile typo - sorry!

nothinkjustai 6mo ago

VC’s aren’t exactly known for being both wise and intelligent.

grvdrm 6mo ago
Perhaps but it’s more the concept/contrast presented that stuck with me more than the persona. That said - that VC isn’t alone along with many other capital allocators.

wrs 6mo ago

Assuming “phenomenally well” means what it says, the conversation would have suddenly gotten a lot more real if she had said that more precisely: “I don’t know what your kids are going to do for work.”

fnimick 6mo ago
Yeah. Her kids will be fine with generational wealth. Everyone else's - not so much. This is the problem in a nutshell - people are happy to do things they know are harmful for personal profit.
grvdrm 6mo ago
Totally. And yes you got it.

denismenace 6mo ago

[flagged]

steve_adams_86 6mo ago
But, what if people putting their energy into ensuring society adapts with the technology safely and positively would be better than focusing on finding ways to capitalize off of whatever happens to occur instead? I'm not saying one person can do that alone, but if we collectively believe we should focus on capitalization instead, then there's no one present to influence a more constructive, pro-social, sustainable course for society. So I don't think it's ridiculous to think it's acting against their interests. Money won't get your kids very far if the thing that made you wealthy also pulled the rug from under them. There needs to be more of a strategy than capital.

nradov 6mo ago

At the beginning of the industrial revolution we didn't know what people would do for work but we eventually figured it out. Human demands are effectively infinite so there will always be work for other humans to satisfy those demands. The transition period may be disruptive.

grvdrm 6mo ago
I agree. Her statement in pure literal terms is quite negative whereas the reality may be quite different. Predictions aren’t certainties.

furyofantares 6mo ago

There's plenty of things you can be simultaneously worried and optimistic about, and I find this is constantly true of parenting. I will encourage my kid to gain independence, but of course I'm worried about it! The fact that there is uncertainty in her independence and that I can imagine bad outcomes does not mean I'm working against her interest by encouraging it. "I don't know what jobs there will be to do" is a statement of uncertainty, and, given how you are relaying it, there must have been fear there as well. But it doesn't seem like it's a statement that the world will be worse. You can be fearful and hopeful at the same time, and fear tends to be the stronger of the two, and come out more strongly, again especially in parenting I find, even if you find the hopeful outcomes more likely.

grvdrm 6mo ago
I’m with you. Your example is little squishier to me but I am a parent so I understand your point.

Unai 6mo ago

In the other hand, shouldn't it be the objective of humanity to not HAVE to work for the most basic survival and to fit into society? Not that we're in any way in that path, of course, with the people making the working machines also accumulating all the wealth. But still, there's something intrinsically good about automation, even when the system is not suited for it.

grvdrm 6mo ago
But in another world doesn’t automation just produce yet another set of things to do? Perhaps i am doing this all wrong but in my world more automation has never produced less work unless I conveniently told no one and therefore filled “free” time how i wanted.
- munksbeer 6mo ago
  You're sending mixed messages here. Automation is going to put us all out of jobs, or automation isn't going to produce less work and so we'll still have lots to do? Personally, I think until real AGI, the current LLMs will automate a lot of tasks, but the market will adapt and humans still end up with about the same percentage of employment and wages.
  - grvdrm 6mo ago
    My original post was about her comment. It seemed like she was both concerned about the presence of jobs for kids while also investing in the very thing possibly taking away those jobs. The contrast was unsettling. My own take is very much “wait and see and make sure to stay aware/skill up” My automation point is just that at least in my career (20 years), my workload has rarely gone down even with plenty of automation around.
loloquwowndueo 6mo ago
It’s automating the wrong thing. I want my ai to do dishes and laundry so I can write, draw, do deep cognitive work. Not for it to do cognitive work and write and draw while I don dishes and laundry.

shimman 6mo ago

I really hope they increase taxes and stop letting VC firms gamble with pension funds. These people shouldn't have their current jobs already, and you're telling me they're also dictating how technology is being shaped in the country as well?

warkdarrior 6mo ago

If that VC partner gathered sufficient generational wealth, their kids will not have to worry about earning an income.

stronglikedan 6mo ago

Sounds like she's acting in their best interests to me. Her kids will find something to do - the same things everyone else will find to do. There's just going to be a lot less working-for-a-living, and it's going to be glorious.

grvdrm 6mo ago
Hm. Well, certainly one way to look at it. I don’t feel confident that we have a clear idea in either direction. That’s one reason I found the statement peculiar - sort of a rooted fear in no jobs.

harryquach 6mo ago

> Worried about your own kids but acting against their interests. > That same VC invests in AI companies and by what I heard about her, has done phenomenally well. Her kids will be fine, its the vast majority of other, non wealthy, kids who are in trouble.

voidhorse 6mo ago

False Consciousness was the old marxist term for this inadvertent working against your own ultimate self-interest. It's rife in capitalism. If you look closely you'll see it everywhere. (note that even the "her kids will be ok" isn't true at the limit. If wealth concentrates sufficiently enough it will lead to societal collapse)