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I'm not sure why this announcement has generated so much irritation in the comments-- Cloudflare has been transitioning from "DDoS protection" to "AWS competito

by Meekro 6mo ago

I'm not sure why this announcement has generated so much irritation in the comments-- Cloudflare has been transitioning from "DDoS protection" to "AWS competitor" for many years now, and this is just their alternative to AWS SES. It's an email sender that you can access through an API, or directly through Workers. For those who haven't been keeping up over the years, Workers is their product for running code on Cloudflare's platform directly (an AWS Lambda competitor, more or less) and they've been trying to make it the centerpiece of an ecosystem where you deploy your code to their platform and get access to a variety of tools: databases, storage, streaming, AI, and now email sending. All of this is stuff that AWS has had for years, but some people like Cloudflare more (I certainly do). One thing that surprised me is the price-- Cloudflare's cloud offerings are usually much cheaper, and I've saved plenty of money by migrating from AWS S3 to Cloudflare's R2. This new offering is 3x the AWS price, though. Weird. Anyway, most small companies don't send enough email for it to matter. But getting back to the consensus in the comments here: I'm not sure why people think that they'll be worse about policing spam than AWS SES, Azure Email, etc.

embedding-shape 6mo ago
> But getting back to the consensus in the comments here: I'm not sure why people think that they'll be worse about policing spam than AWS SES, Azure Email, etc. Cloudflare is (in)famous for not acting against spammers, fraud, piracy and other less savory groups that are hosting their stuff at/behind Cloudflare, so reasonably, people who've been affected by that are now afraid the same thing will happen with email.
- ttul 6mo ago
  When it comes to email delivery, you can't ignore spam. It's the bane of existence of every email sending service and the number one business challenge in that segment. After all, orchestrating delivery over SMTP is not rocket science. But getting that email to not be rejected totally IS rocket science and it's simultaneously an art form known only to a handful of email nerds working at the core of the big email sending services...
  - embedding-shape 6mo ago
    Ok, but what about as a CDN/website-proxy/WAF? I know we don't have the same automated reputation-propagation as with email, but same thing supposedly happens there, where eventually you get turned off if you don't act on lawful requests, which is exactly why Cloudflare is unavailable in Spain during La Liga matches, because Cloudflare don't take piracy streams down. In theory, Cloudflare should take those down, when requested by legal means, but that doesn't matter. How sure are we that they'll act differently for email, instead of trying to get rid of the reputation system instead? > getting that email to not be rejected totally IS rocket science and it's simultaneously an art form known only to a handful of email nerds working at the core of the big email sending services It really isn't, you need a clean IP and a clean domain, send handful of emails and you're pretty much whitelisted on most services out there. Maybe you'd say I'm one of the handful, but I personally know more than a handful others who also run their own email services, just like me, and besides the usual hassle of running your own service, as long as you don't spam, your emails will arrive as usual.
    - ttul 6mo ago
      I run an email sending service at scale (billions of messages per month, tens of millions of end users, thousands of customers). Most of our software development and operational effort revolves around abuse mitigation. That has been the case for 15 years. It's a cat-and-mouse game with two different mice: the senders, who are constantly trying to figure out how to get you to deliver their garbage; and the receivers, who are constantly trying to figure out how to block it. We're stuck in the middle. It's hard to appreciate how difficult this battle is when running at scale.
      - pbronez 6mo ago
        What structural changes could we make to improve the situation?
        edoceo 6mo ago
        Signed senders?
- thomas_gauvin 6mo ago
  Blog author chiming in here: We have reserved IPs for Email Service and will be protecting the reputation and fighting spam from originating on Email Service. If we did not do so, our IPs would get flagged and then emails end up in spam or not delivered. That defeats the purpose of having a transactional Email Service. We're well aware of this.
  - embedding-shape 6mo ago
    Will you also do this for other spammers using Cloudflare infrastructure, or just specifically for this email product? > For years, Spamhaus has observed abusive activity facilitated by Cloudflare’s various services. Cybercriminals have been exploiting these legitimate services to mask activities and enhance their malicious operations, a tactic referred to as living off trusted services (LOTS) [2]. > With 1201 unresolved Spamhaus Blocklist (SBL) listings [3], it is clear that the state of affairs at Cloudflare’s Connectivity Cloud looks less than optimal from an abuse-handling perspective. 10.05% of all domains listed on Spamhaus’s Domain Blocklist (DBL), which indicates signs of spam or malicious activity, are on Cloudflare nameservers https://www.spamhaus.org/resource-hub/service-providers/too-big-to-care-our-disappointment-with-cloudflares-anti-abuse-posture/ https://www.spamhaus.org/resource-hub/service-providers/too-...
    - Meekro 6mo ago
      I would note that Cloudflare has been doing better-- the SBL listings page mentioned in that article[1] shows only 47 active complaints, down from 1201 when the article was written 2 years ago. Many of those complaints are stale, too: I spot-checked a few (referencing the domains fireplacecoffee.com and expansionus.com) and the domains are expired and not being hosted by anyone. [1] https://check.spamhaus.org/sbl/listings/cloudflare.com/ https://check.spamhaus.org/sbl/listings/cloudflare.com/
      - deleted 6mo ago
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    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
sixhobbits 6mo ago
I'm not sure if it's a correct impression but my impression is still that AWS is the "devil you know" and Cloudflare is less predictable with more individual decision making from high ups. I guess they got that reputation years ago when the founders (?) got into public spats about what they would and wouldn't host. AWS is more lawyers and committees and seems more anonymous, so people don't necessarily like it more but they do trust it to be what it looks like more. Probably just a function of time and size.
- pocksuppet 6mo ago
  Cloudflare will predictably shut down your account until you pay $150k. They will not transfer out any of your domains or files - they will be inaccessible until you pay $150k.
  - b2m9 6mo ago
    Excuse me, what are you referring to?
    - foolswisdom 6mo ago
      There have been stories about people with heavy internet traffic (generally media streaming I think) being more or less shut down unless they upgrade their cloudflare plan (to enterprise I guess). Some were posted on HN in the past.
      - NoahZuniga 6mo ago
        And a gambling site
      - el_sinchi 6mo ago
        [dead]
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
Joel_Mckay 6mo ago
Almost every SaaS (Spam as a Service) API ends up arguing its minority of legitimate users are a justified excuse for the majority of nuisance traffic. Most cloud IP blocks already have very poor reputations, and or already on Spamhaus blacklists. People have a right to choose to be upset. =3
- Meekro 6mo ago
  My experience has been the opposite of what you're saying: AWS SES (one of AWS's flagship products, and probably the biggest email sender in the world) is a pretty responsible anti-spam citizen. Spamhaus even wrote this article[1] praising SES's anti-spam efforts. From the article: "Amazon SES has a long-standing relationship with Spamhaus, working closely to prevent suspicious IPs and domains from impacting their network." Though I'm sure that new incidents come up daily, Spamhaus themselves seem to disagree with the notion that SES's IP blocks have "poor reputations." [1] https://www.spamhaus.org/resource-hub/service-providers/how-amazon-ses-works-with-spamhaus-to-protect-its-network-and-reputation/#implementing-ip-and-domain-reputation-best-practices https://www.spamhaus.org/resource-hub/service-providers/how-...
  - Joel_Mckay 6mo ago
    Whatever IP people temporarily host on a cloud incurs the prior users reputation. Again, using legitimate traffic to shim network spam is a common counterargument against black listing. Of the approximate 274000 banned hosts I stare at... many nuisances are from Amazon, Azure, digital ocean, and Hetzner. I am sure Maildrill or Mailchimp does have legitimate use cases, but generally the majority of the traffic suggests otherwise. I am certainly biased in this opinion. =3
    - tracker1 6mo ago
      Are those hosts using hosted VPS instances, or are they sending through SES? There's a pretty significant difference... FWIW, I get why a lot of VPSes simply block email hosting altogether. It makes it a bit harder for me to find a host for my own small server, but I do understand the pain. Some services are better or worse, and I can imagine at the scale of many cloud hosts, trying to keep the IPs for general hosting out of blocklists would impact the bottom line more than reputational damage for a handful of legit email hosting accounts. TBF, the demo app referenced in TFA and depending on how many emails you actually send for however many domains may well be a better option for me than my small MTA server.
password4321 6mo ago
Cloudflare is spending years of goodwill earned through technical skill, trending towards AI enshittification starting with their blog posts and vibe coded features/products.
- Meekro 6mo ago
  I also kind of rolled my eyes at the blog post and its obsessive focus on "agents" -- definitely feels like a solution looking for a problem. But the email-sending product being promoted is probably ok, right? They just happened to write a lot of words observing that ChatGPT can, in fact, call sendmail() through their platform (if you give it access) -- a fact that shouldn't surprise anyone.
  - thomas_gauvin 6mo ago
    Blog author chiming in: Our initial blog covered most of Email Service's API and what you can expect from it in terms of deliverability, DNS records setup, etc. https://blog.cloudflare.com/email-service/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/email-service/ Email Service can definitely be used as a transactional email API, and it has everything you would expect like SDKs, binding, observability and more coming on the way The agent angle in this post reflects what we're actually seeing from developers during our private beta. And the idea that an agent can have an inbox to communicate is a new piece in the developer toolbelt.
    - fernandotakai 6mo ago
      >The agent angle in this post reflects what we're actually seeing from developers during our private beta. legit question: did you invite anyone that isn't doing agentic whatever during your beta?
      - Meekro 6mo ago
        Thomas can probably speak to this better, but as someone who has participated in other Cloudflare betas: there's usually a button or a form and you can request access.
Onavo 6mo ago
> Cloudflare's cloud offerings are usually much cheaper, and I've saved plenty of money by migrating from AWS S3 to Cloudflare's R2. This new offering is 3x the AWS price, though. Weird. Anyway, most small companies don't send enough email for it to matter. For certain types of marketing and transactional emails, it's cheaper I think. AWS SES pricing doesn't include attachments. If you assume a maxed out 25MB email attachment body, I think the price comes out to be mostly similar, amortized at least. But if you are sending basic text/mostly text transactional emails for stuff like password resets, then SES comes out ahead for sure.
arpinum 6mo ago
The pricing is disappointing. I'm surprised Cloudflare has not tried to compete on price against AWS lately after a good start with R2. Queues, database storage, database writes, worker invocation all more expensive than the AWS offering.
- TurdF3rguson 6mo ago
  Can you back that up with a link? You're saying Lambda is cheaper than Workers?
  - arpinum 6mo ago
    I said worker/lambda invocation, $0.30/m cloudflare vs $0.20/m for lambda. Total cost depends on async work and memory needs. Cloudflare is $20/m seconds, lambda is $1.66/m seconds, both at 128MB. lambda isn't giving you a full core, if you need CPU it is also $20/m.
    - TurdF3rguson 6mo ago
      Ok so I guess lambda wins on per m requests and only if you're not using api gateway. In the real world those wins get eaten up by all the other ways CF are better (free egress, no cold start, cpu-time only duration billing). My verdict: Workers wins on price by a lot.
navigate8310 6mo ago
I've used their email relay services to forward it to my Microsoft account, every forward is rejected by Microsoft due to spam generated by Cloudflare. So I don't have much faith at least in their email services.
- tracker1 6mo ago
  Of all email services, delivery to MS hosted systems is absolutely the worst to deal with. It's completely opaque and almost impossible to resolve most of the time. They tend to direct you to paid channels to try to mitigate issues instead of actually responding to complaints for false positive flagging as spam. For my small, personal email server, I just gave up on trying... I can deliver to Gmail and every other major email provider without issue, and even MS seems to be split into a couple different backing orgs.
- magguzu 6mo ago
  This isn't unique to Cloudflare. Microsoft email spam filter absolutely sucks. I hit it a lot too from my small provider.
  - tentacleuno 6mo ago
    I recall them actually marking Microsoft emails as spam. Not sure if that's even changed.
EGreg 6mo ago
Can Cloudflare do an SMS service? That would be something :)
ignoramous 6mo ago
> One thing that surprised me is the price-- Cloudflare's cloud offerings are usually much cheaper ... This new offering is 3x the AWS price, though. Weird. c. 2022 Cloudflare had a free email sending service (via MailChannels) [0] until it was sunset in Aug 2024 [1]. [0] https://blog.cloudflare.com/sending-email-from-workers-with-mailchannels/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/sending-email-from-workers-with-... [1] https://support.mailchannels.com/hc/en-us/articles/4565898358413-Sending-Email-from-Cloudflare-Workers-using-MailChannels-Email-API https://support.mailchannels.com/hc/en-us/articles/456589835... / https://archive.vn/xNLzv https://archive.vn/xNLzv
jiveturkey 6mo ago
> One thing that surprised me is the [high] price [vs SES for example] Not sure if you read the announcement closely: > Sending email that actually reaches inboxes usually means wrestling with SPF, DKIM, and DMARC records. When you add your domain to Email Service, we configure all of it automatically. Your emails are authenticated and delivered, not flagged as spam. this service is batteries included. SES is not.
m463 6mo ago
they are a gatekeeper, and along with DDOS protection, they are also setting defacto internet policies, like what browser you should use to access websites.

by Meekro 6mo ago

embedding-shape 6mo ago

> But getting back to the consensus in the comments here: I'm not sure why people think that they'll be worse about policing spam than AWS SES, Azure Email, etc. Cloudflare is (in)famous for not acting against spammers, fraud, piracy and other less savory groups that are hosting their stuff at/behind Cloudflare, so reasonably, people who've been affected by that are now afraid the same thing will happen with email.

ttul 6mo ago
When it comes to email delivery, you can't ignore spam. It's the bane of existence of every email sending service and the number one business challenge in that segment. After all, orchestrating delivery over SMTP is not rocket science. But getting that email to not be rejected totally IS rocket science and it's simultaneously an art form known only to a handful of email nerds working at the core of the big email sending services...
- embedding-shape 6mo ago
  Ok, but what about as a CDN/website-proxy/WAF? I know we don't have the same automated reputation-propagation as with email, but same thing supposedly happens there, where eventually you get turned off if you don't act on lawful requests, which is exactly why Cloudflare is unavailable in Spain during La Liga matches, because Cloudflare don't take piracy streams down. In theory, Cloudflare should take those down, when requested by legal means, but that doesn't matter. How sure are we that they'll act differently for email, instead of trying to get rid of the reputation system instead? > getting that email to not be rejected totally IS rocket science and it's simultaneously an art form known only to a handful of email nerds working at the core of the big email sending services It really isn't, you need a clean IP and a clean domain, send handful of emails and you're pretty much whitelisted on most services out there. Maybe you'd say I'm one of the handful, but I personally know more than a handful others who also run their own email services, just like me, and besides the usual hassle of running your own service, as long as you don't spam, your emails will arrive as usual.
  - ttul 6mo ago
    I run an email sending service at scale (billions of messages per month, tens of millions of end users, thousands of customers). Most of our software development and operational effort revolves around abuse mitigation. That has been the case for 15 years. It's a cat-and-mouse game with two different mice: the senders, who are constantly trying to figure out how to get you to deliver their garbage; and the receivers, who are constantly trying to figure out how to block it. We're stuck in the middle. It's hard to appreciate how difficult this battle is when running at scale.
    - pbronez 6mo ago
      What structural changes could we make to improve the situation?
      - edoceo 6mo ago
        Signed senders?
thomas_gauvin 6mo ago
Blog author chiming in here: We have reserved IPs for Email Service and will be protecting the reputation and fighting spam from originating on Email Service. If we did not do so, our IPs would get flagged and then emails end up in spam or not delivered. That defeats the purpose of having a transactional Email Service. We're well aware of this.
- embedding-shape 6mo ago
  Will you also do this for other spammers using Cloudflare infrastructure, or just specifically for this email product? > For years, Spamhaus has observed abusive activity facilitated by Cloudflare’s various services. Cybercriminals have been exploiting these legitimate services to mask activities and enhance their malicious operations, a tactic referred to as living off trusted services (LOTS) [2]. > With 1201 unresolved Spamhaus Blocklist (SBL) listings [3], it is clear that the state of affairs at Cloudflare’s Connectivity Cloud looks less than optimal from an abuse-handling perspective. 10.05% of all domains listed on Spamhaus’s Domain Blocklist (DBL), which indicates signs of spam or malicious activity, are on Cloudflare nameservers https://www.spamhaus.org/resource-hub/service-providers/too-big-to-care-our-disappointment-with-cloudflares-anti-abuse-posture/ https://www.spamhaus.org/resource-hub/service-providers/too-...
  - Meekro 6mo ago
    I would note that Cloudflare has been doing better-- the SBL listings page mentioned in that article[1] shows only 47 active complaints, down from 1201 when the article was written 2 years ago. Many of those complaints are stale, too: I spot-checked a few (referencing the domains fireplacecoffee.com and expansionus.com) and the domains are expired and not being hosted by anyone. [1] https://check.spamhaus.org/sbl/listings/cloudflare.com/ https://check.spamhaus.org/sbl/listings/cloudflare.com/
    - deleted 6mo ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]

sixhobbits 6mo ago

I'm not sure if it's a correct impression but my impression is still that AWS is the "devil you know" and Cloudflare is less predictable with more individual decision making from high ups. I guess they got that reputation years ago when the founders (?) got into public spats about what they would and wouldn't host. AWS is more lawyers and committees and seems more anonymous, so people don't necessarily like it more but they do trust it to be what it looks like more. Probably just a function of time and size.

pocksuppet 6mo ago
Cloudflare will predictably shut down your account until you pay $150k. They will not transfer out any of your domains or files - they will be inaccessible until you pay $150k.
- b2m9 6mo ago
  Excuse me, what are you referring to?
  - foolswisdom 6mo ago
    There have been stories about people with heavy internet traffic (generally media streaming I think) being more or less shut down unless they upgrade their cloudflare plan (to enterprise I guess). Some were posted on HN in the past.
    - NoahZuniga 6mo ago
      And a gambling site
    - el_sinchi 6mo ago
      [dead]
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]

Joel_Mckay 6mo ago

Almost every SaaS (Spam as a Service) API ends up arguing its minority of legitimate users are a justified excuse for the majority of nuisance traffic. Most cloud IP blocks already have very poor reputations, and or already on Spamhaus blacklists. People have a right to choose to be upset. =3

Meekro 6mo ago
My experience has been the opposite of what you're saying: AWS SES (one of AWS's flagship products, and probably the biggest email sender in the world) is a pretty responsible anti-spam citizen. Spamhaus even wrote this article[1] praising SES's anti-spam efforts. From the article: "Amazon SES has a long-standing relationship with Spamhaus, working closely to prevent suspicious IPs and domains from impacting their network." Though I'm sure that new incidents come up daily, Spamhaus themselves seem to disagree with the notion that SES's IP blocks have "poor reputations." [1] https://www.spamhaus.org/resource-hub/service-providers/how-amazon-ses-works-with-spamhaus-to-protect-its-network-and-reputation/#implementing-ip-and-domain-reputation-best-practices https://www.spamhaus.org/resource-hub/service-providers/how-...
- Joel_Mckay 6mo ago
  Whatever IP people temporarily host on a cloud incurs the prior users reputation. Again, using legitimate traffic to shim network spam is a common counterargument against black listing. Of the approximate 274000 banned hosts I stare at... many nuisances are from Amazon, Azure, digital ocean, and Hetzner. I am sure Maildrill or Mailchimp does have legitimate use cases, but generally the majority of the traffic suggests otherwise. I am certainly biased in this opinion. =3
  - tracker1 6mo ago
    Are those hosts using hosted VPS instances, or are they sending through SES? There's a pretty significant difference... FWIW, I get why a lot of VPSes simply block email hosting altogether. It makes it a bit harder for me to find a host for my own small server, but I do understand the pain. Some services are better or worse, and I can imagine at the scale of many cloud hosts, trying to keep the IPs for general hosting out of blocklists would impact the bottom line more than reputational damage for a handful of legit email hosting accounts. TBF, the demo app referenced in TFA and depending on how many emails you actually send for however many domains may well be a better option for me than my small MTA server.

password4321 6mo ago

Cloudflare is spending years of goodwill earned through technical skill, trending towards AI enshittification starting with their blog posts and vibe coded features/products.

Meekro 6mo ago
I also kind of rolled my eyes at the blog post and its obsessive focus on "agents" -- definitely feels like a solution looking for a problem. But the email-sending product being promoted is probably ok, right? They just happened to write a lot of words observing that ChatGPT can, in fact, call sendmail() through their platform (if you give it access) -- a fact that shouldn't surprise anyone.
- thomas_gauvin 6mo ago
  Blog author chiming in: Our initial blog covered most of Email Service's API and what you can expect from it in terms of deliverability, DNS records setup, etc. https://blog.cloudflare.com/email-service/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/email-service/ Email Service can definitely be used as a transactional email API, and it has everything you would expect like SDKs, binding, observability and more coming on the way The agent angle in this post reflects what we're actually seeing from developers during our private beta. And the idea that an agent can have an inbox to communicate is a new piece in the developer toolbelt.
  - fernandotakai 6mo ago
    >The agent angle in this post reflects what we're actually seeing from developers during our private beta. legit question: did you invite anyone that isn't doing agentic whatever during your beta?
    - Meekro 6mo ago
      Thomas can probably speak to this better, but as someone who has participated in other Cloudflare betas: there's usually a button or a form and you can request access.

Onavo 6mo ago

> Cloudflare's cloud offerings are usually much cheaper, and I've saved plenty of money by migrating from AWS S3 to Cloudflare's R2. This new offering is 3x the AWS price, though. Weird. Anyway, most small companies don't send enough email for it to matter. For certain types of marketing and transactional emails, it's cheaper I think. AWS SES pricing doesn't include attachments. If you assume a maxed out 25MB email attachment body, I think the price comes out to be mostly similar, amortized at least. But if you are sending basic text/mostly text transactional emails for stuff like password resets, then SES comes out ahead for sure.

arpinum 6mo ago

The pricing is disappointing. I'm surprised Cloudflare has not tried to compete on price against AWS lately after a good start with R2. Queues, database storage, database writes, worker invocation all more expensive than the AWS offering.

TurdF3rguson 6mo ago
Can you back that up with a link? You're saying Lambda is cheaper than Workers?
- arpinum 6mo ago
  I said worker/lambda invocation, $0.30/m cloudflare vs $0.20/m for lambda. Total cost depends on async work and memory needs. Cloudflare is $20/m seconds, lambda is $1.66/m seconds, both at 128MB. lambda isn't giving you a full core, if you need CPU it is also $20/m.
  - TurdF3rguson 6mo ago
    Ok so I guess lambda wins on per m requests and only if you're not using api gateway. In the real world those wins get eaten up by all the other ways CF are better (free egress, no cold start, cpu-time only duration billing). My verdict: Workers wins on price by a lot.

navigate8310 6mo ago

I've used their email relay services to forward it to my Microsoft account, every forward is rejected by Microsoft due to spam generated by Cloudflare. So I don't have much faith at least in their email services.

tracker1 6mo ago
Of all email services, delivery to MS hosted systems is absolutely the worst to deal with. It's completely opaque and almost impossible to resolve most of the time. They tend to direct you to paid channels to try to mitigate issues instead of actually responding to complaints for false positive flagging as spam. For my small, personal email server, I just gave up on trying... I can deliver to Gmail and every other major email provider without issue, and even MS seems to be split into a couple different backing orgs.
magguzu 6mo ago
This isn't unique to Cloudflare. Microsoft email spam filter absolutely sucks. I hit it a lot too from my small provider.
- tentacleuno 6mo ago
  I recall them actually marking Microsoft emails as spam. Not sure if that's even changed.

EGreg 6mo ago

Can Cloudflare do an SMS service? That would be something :)

ignoramous 6mo ago

> One thing that surprised me is the price-- Cloudflare's cloud offerings are usually much cheaper ... This new offering is 3x the AWS price, though. Weird. c. 2022 Cloudflare had a free email sending service (via MailChannels) [0] until it was sunset in Aug 2024 [1]. [0] https://blog.cloudflare.com/sending-email-from-workers-with-mailchannels/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/sending-email-from-workers-with-... [1] https://support.mailchannels.com/hc/en-us/articles/4565898358413-Sending-Email-from-Cloudflare-Workers-using-MailChannels-Email-API https://support.mailchannels.com/hc/en-us/articles/456589835... / https://archive.vn/xNLzv https://archive.vn/xNLzv

jiveturkey 6mo ago

> One thing that surprised me is the [high] price [vs SES for example] Not sure if you read the announcement closely: > Sending email that actually reaches inboxes usually means wrestling with SPF, DKIM, and DMARC records. When you add your domain to Email Service, we configure all of it automatically. Your emails are authenticated and delivered, not flagged as spam. this service is batteries included. SES is not.

m463 6mo ago

they are a gatekeeper, and along with DDOS protection, they are also setting defacto internet policies, like what browser you should use to access websites.